courting vs. dating

[whatagirlwants]

I'm not talking old school courting but a new definition of it. Which would you prefer your hypothetical kids to do? also discuss the concepts in general

courting: Focus on impressing the parents of whomever they are going out with. This looks a lot like normal dating exect the focus in changed. It's easy to impress people that are already atracted to us, its not easy impressing their parents. Through impressing parents you impress the person. Also this doesn't have to parents it can be other family that is close to them or close friends. You can still date exclusively, kiss and such but keep in mind a desire to please those that care about the person you are with.

Dating: focus on impressing someone you are attracted to. Not much thought is put into what friends and family think. Things often move at a quicker pace and are more heated....like as in physical and stuff. this is the traditional American ideals about finding a "mate".

I will teach my son to court. I want him to treat a girls father, mother, siblings, and friends like royalty. He should respect and honor them. He should choose not sleep with her because it disrespects her father. I don't think chivalry is dead and I want my son to show it. The same goes for girls he dates. A girl that cannot respect us is not good enough for him. We are him, we created and raised him so disrespecting us is disrespecting him.

I think if we teach our kids to respect, honor, and win the approval the parents of the people they want to be a relationship teen pregnancy, STD, and drop out rates would decrease significantly. We live in a self serving culture. Its all about getting yours and being happy but this lifestyle has backfired. Divorce, Single parents, teen moms, STDs, and high school drop outs are at all time highs. why? because our culture allows for sex at an early age. We say if they both feel ready then go ahead. But in the heat of moment when emotions and hormones are high mistakes are made. If the focus is switched back to a service of others attitude. The idea that you are proving the the parents of this person that you the best person for them then you will less inclined to make those mistakes. Divorce happens because immature people make stupid decisions that they can't handle. Lets get married because we're "in love" and lets not care what everyone else says. If your focus is on what others think of the relationship then these rushed into marriages are less likely to happen. Just think about it the people most likely to get a divorce are young and have been married less than 5 years. Rushing into things to serve themselves got them there. I bet if he felt the need to get daddy's approval it would've been a lot less likely to happen.

Anyways thoughts? other ways to fix these problems that plague our society? discuss.  

[AriaStarSong]

I've dated people who followed somewhat of your version of "courting" and quite frankly, it really bothered me. I hated the idea that the person that I was dating felt the need to suck up to my friends and family to try to get on their good side and therefore mine. If they're a good person, and good for me, then my friends and family should like them for who they are, and they shouldn't have to go out of their way to impress them. It made me feel a little bit like a pawn in a game, like he needed to conquer so many bosses (my friends and family) in order to "win" the prize at the end (me). I felt second rate and kind of used. In the end, when I wanted to break things off, my friends and family were appalled. He was so busy impressing them, and they were so busy being impressed by him, that everyone had failed to notice that I was miserable. It was a horrible break-up, and not having any of my friends on my side hurt a lot.

I DO think that it's important to take into consideration what your friends and family think of someone that you're with, but that shouldn't be the focus of everything. I am happy to meet my girlfriends' boys, and have become good friends with a lot of them. But not because they went out of their way to impress me, but because they're good people, they treat my friends well, and fit in well with our overall "group", even if we all only see each other a few times a year anymore.

So, while I do think it is important to make a good impression on your significant other's friends and family, that shouldn't be your main focus. You're not dating their friends and family. Your dating them. The two of you should always be the focus of the relationship. Be respectful. Be friendly. Be helpful. But be genuine about it, and be attentive to the person that you're with.  

[Kaiyle Brightblade]

Parents and children can have very different values. Sometimes parents will want someone for their child who is wrong for them. Thats is why we no longer have arranged marriages. Also, it is possible that both sets of parents will approve a marriage, but it will end in divorce many years later. For example, my parents. Its also possible that not every single friend or person in the community will approve of a relationship, but the couple can be very suited for each other and live a wonderful life. For example, my dad and his new wife. I think its more important that the two partners are happy together. Family approval is important, but a strong bond between the two people who are actually in the relationship is much more important.

If I had a child, I would teach him or her to have good manners and be respectful to their partners parents. But I would not teach them to put the wishes of the family over what is best for their relationship. It would be more important to me that my son treated his girlfriend with respect than if he treated her father with respect.  

[Zephyrkitty]

froggymama89

I will teach my son to court. I want him to treat a girls father, mother, siblings, and friends like royalty. He should respect and honor them. He should choose not sleep with her because it disrespects her father. I don't think chivalry is dead and I want my son to show it. The same goes for girls he dates. A girl that cannot respect us is not good enough for him. We are him, we created and raised him so disrespecting us is disrespecting him.

I think if we teach our kids to respect, honor, and win the approval the parents of the people they want to be a relationship teen pregnancy, STD, and drop out rates would decrease significantly. We live in a self serving culture. Its all about getting yours and being happy but this lifestyle has backfired. Divorce, Single parents, teen moms, STDs, and high school drop outs are at all time highs. why? because our culture allows for sex at an early age. We say if they both feel ready then go ahead. But in the heat of moment when emotions and hormones are high mistakes are made. If the focus is switched back to a service of others attitude. The idea that you are proving the the parents of this person that you the best person for them then you will less inclined to make those mistakes. Divorce happens because immature people make stupid decisions that they can't handle. Lets get married because we're "in love" and lets not care what everyone else says. If your focus is on what others think of the relationship then these rushed into marriages are less likely to happen. Just think about it the people most likely to get a divorce are young and have been married less than 5 years. Rushing into things to serve themselves got them there. I bet if he felt the need to get daddy's approval it would've been a lot less likely to happen.

I find the "getting the father's approval" mindset to be fairly insulting, to be completely honest. I'm the one this person wants to date/sleep with/marry/etc., so I'd expect them to ask me about it. Asking my dad for permission makes me feel like they don't think I can make decisions for myself; it's incredibly patronizing.

That said, I'd want any person I date to get along with my family, but I'd want it to be because they're a good person, not because they're putting my wishes second to my family's.

As for addressing some of those problems, I think education could go a long way. Just telling kids "don't have sex" doesn't work and, when the kid has sex, they'll be less likely to use protection (or they'll use some of those terrible myths, such as preventing pregnancy by drinking Mountain Dew). Educate kids on how to use protection, and teen pregnancy and STD rates will go down.  

[LyricalSoul93]

I can see where Froggy is coming from on this. I don't think that she is implying that the father's wishes are more important than the girl's, simply that if the girl is gonna get her family offside by sleeping with her bf very young, unmarried, whatever, than the bf should respect this and think long and hard about whether it should still happen. These are important values because family ties are usually the strongest and those ties last far longer than the average relationship.
I certainly try very hard to make sure that boyfriend's family likes me and are comfortable with me because I think that's important. However, I do think there is a line here. Sometimes parents just don't understand what their kids need, it might be a cultural, religious or age gap thing or it might just be a clash in personalities. In that case, where no one is rushing into anything and both parties are mature enough to make decisions for themselves, I really think it is on the parents to step back and accept that their son/daughter need different things from life, and support them anyway.  

[broken_bleeding_angel]

Zephyrkitty

froggymama89

I will teach my son to court. I want him to treat a girls father, mother, siblings, and friends like royalty. He should respect and honor them. He should choose not sleep with her because it disrespects her father. I don't think chivalry is dead and I want my son to show it. The same goes for girls he dates. A girl that cannot respect us is not good enough for him. We are him, we created and raised him so disrespecting us is disrespecting him.

I think if we teach our kids to respect, honor, and win the approval the parents of the people they want to be a relationship teen pregnancy, STD, and drop out rates would decrease significantly. We live in a self serving culture. Its all about getting yours and being happy but this lifestyle has backfired. Divorce, Single parents, teen moms, STDs, and high school drop outs are at all time highs. why? because our culture allows for sex at an early age. We say if they both feel ready then go ahead. But in the heat of moment when emotions and hormones are high mistakes are made. If the focus is switched back to a service of others attitude. The idea that you are proving the the parents of this person that you the best person for them then you will less inclined to make those mistakes. Divorce happens because immature people make stupid decisions that they can't handle. Lets get married because we're "in love" and lets not care what everyone else says. If your focus is on what others think of the relationship then these rushed into marriages are less likely to happen. Just think about it the people most likely to get a divorce are young and have been married less than 5 years. Rushing into things to serve themselves got them there. I bet if he felt the need to get daddy's approval it would've been a lot less likely to happen.

I find the "getting the father's approval" mindset to be fairly insulting, to be completely honest. I'm the one this person wants to date/sleep with/marry/etc., so I'd expect them to ask me about it. Asking my dad for permission makes me feel like they don't think I can make decisions for myself; it's incredibly patronizing.

I strongly agree with Zephyrkitty on this point. If the person I was dating was doing stuff that would only please my parents and not me, then I wouldn't be in a relationship like that. I understand that sometimes they want the family to accept and recognize them as their partner. But I'm a selfish b***h that doesn't like to share her boyfriend with anyone, especially my family.

If my family doesn't like him, that's fine, they're not the ones dating/courting/sleeping with him. I am. Quite frankly I hate a** kissers. And the whole "getting the father's permission" thing would totally piss me off. Especially if he was asking if it's ok if we have sex or get married. That's not my parents decision to make. I feel that should be left between myself and my partner.

If they feel the need to a** kiss my parents, then why bother dating me? He's basically just going to be sucking up to them and do everything he can to please them. it's like he'll be dating them and not me. And that's not coll with me. That's ignoring my needs for the sake of my parent's wants.  

[whatagirlwants]

broken_bleeding_angel

Zephyrkitty

froggymama89

I will teach my son to court. I want him to treat a girls father, mother, siblings, and friends like royalty. He should respect and honor them. He should choose not sleep with her because it disrespects her father. I don't think chivalry is dead and I want my son to show it. The same goes for girls he dates. A girl that cannot respect us is not good enough for him. We are him, we created and raised him so disrespecting us is disrespecting him.

I think if we teach our kids to respect, honor, and win the approval the parents of the people they want to be a relationship teen pregnancy, STD, and drop out rates would decrease significantly. We live in a self serving culture. Its all about getting yours and being happy but this lifestyle has backfired. Divorce, Single parents, teen moms, STDs, and high school drop outs are at all time highs. why? because our culture allows for sex at an early age. We say if they both feel ready then go ahead. But in the heat of moment when emotions and hormones are high mistakes are made. If the focus is switched back to a service of others attitude. The idea that you are proving the the parents of this person that you the best person for them then you will less inclined to make those mistakes. Divorce happens because immature people make stupid decisions that they can't handle. Lets get married because we're "in love" and lets not care what everyone else says. If your focus is on what others think of the relationship then these rushed into marriages are less likely to happen. Just think about it the people most likely to get a divorce are young and have been married less than 5 years. Rushing into things to serve themselves got them there. I bet if he felt the need to get daddy's approval it would've been a lot less likely to happen.

I find the "getting the father's approval" mindset to be fairly insulting, to be completely honest. I'm the one this person wants to date/sleep with/marry/etc., so I'd expect them to ask me about it. Asking my dad for permission makes me feel like they don't think I can make decisions for myself; it's incredibly patronizing.

I strongly agree with Zephyrkitty on this point. If the person I was dating was doing stuff that would only please my parents and not me, then I wouldn't be in a relationship like that. I understand that sometimes they want the family to accept and recognize them as their partner. But I'm a selfish b***h that doesn't like to share her boyfriend with anyone, especially my family.

If my family doesn't like him, that's fine, they're not the ones dating/courting/sleeping with him. I am. Quite frankly I hate a** kissers. And the whole "getting the father's permission" thing would totally piss me off. Especially if he was asking if it's ok if we have sex or get married. That's not my parents decision to make. I feel that should be left between myself and my partner.

If they feel the need to a** kiss my parents, then why bother dating me? He's basically just going to be sucking up to them and do everything he can to please them. it's like he'll be dating them and not me. And that's not coll with me. That's ignoring my needs for the sake of my parent's wants.

this isn't what I was saying at all. But then again this may be a cultural thing I grew up in the south and down here we are rather old fashioned. Its not that your father is saying weather or not you two will get married. Simply asking permission to marry his daughter is getting his approval. The man still has to ask the girl and she may say no, the father may say no and the boy still ask. I don't think there is any appropriate way to ask a man to sleep with his daughter but as aecatgirl said he should take into consideration how her parents might react. While the relationship is between the two people if it lasts forever then yes you are marrying the whole family in a sense. If it doesn't last then she still has her parents and a couple shouldn't do anything that might damage the parent/ child relationship. I dunno maybe I'm just old fashioned.  

[Liviania]

I get what you were saying froggy. I'm from the South, and would expect any man I marry to ask my dad's permission. It's cultural.

I'm not entirely sure I would go for your version of courting above dating. I believe any of my potential significant others should be kind and respectful to my family and friends. In return, I should treat their's well. But I do not think any SO needs to ardently pursue their approval. I want the SO to make an effort to form relationships with the people I love, but I do not need the SO to wine and dine them. If the SO can't be himself in front of my family and friends, then perhaps there is a problem that needs my attention. But I wouldn't force the SO to win their approval. In the end, my approval is all that matters because I'm the one in the relationship.  

[Hester Peche]

I see where you're coming from but, I disagree.

The whole courtship/dating thing should focus on the idividuals trying to get to know one another, one-on-one, it's hard to get to know eachother if your date is too busy trying to impress the parents.

I'm not saying that a person shouldn't be respectful, they should be kind to the family. But, having your parents anywhere near your love life usually spells disaster.

As for not having an "intimate" relationship, that's not always best. I mean if your attracted to someone, emotionally and physically, they you need to explore the relationship. You can be attracted to someone as a person and then have no chemistry in the bedroom. And it would be awful to find that out after your married.

Yes, we should teach our kids respect and honor but, we should let them decide what to do with it.  

[Azusanga]

Parents naturally love me, so I'm skilled in that field xD (as in, no one goes "Ugh, her again?")

Otherwise, I'd do a mix. I'd be polite and corteous, as well as out there and fun. If I'm lucky, my love's mom will be at least somewhat okay with me, I only need a blessing ;P  

[Sensation Ari]

I don't give a ******** if my lover tries to impress my mother, but he should be respectful to her at least. I don't want my lover and parents to fight.

Although I'd love to impress his parents.

 

[AriaStarSong]

I do see where you're coming from, Froggy, maybe because I lived in the South for 4 years xd
I do think it's important to make an effort to get along with your SO's family, especially if they are close with their family. Any guy I dated that didn't get along with my family would be a problem because my parents and I are VERY close. My boyfriend is also very close to his family. Thankfully, we all get along pretty well. But there is a difference between making an effort to get to know my family, to find common areas of interest, and actively trying to impress them. However, if I was not close to my family, or if I didn't get along with them particularly, I probably wouldn't care a whit about whether they liked him.  

[Kaiyle Brightblade]

There is more than one way to look at the problem of divorce rates and the number of single mothers rising in this country. I agree that it is partially due to careless relationship decisions that take place without the second opinion of friends and family. But I believe the main cause is that women are more empowered in today's society. In the past, a girl would marry young, often to someone her parents had chosen. Almost never could a girl marry if her parents did not consent to the match. Once married, she stayed married for the rest of her life or his. If the husband was abusive, unfaithful, or a layabout the wife learned to live with it.

We see more divorces and more single mothers because women no longer stand for this sort of treatment. Cheating husband? Unemployed for years and coming home stoned? She has the legal right to divorce him and raise the kids on her own. Not only does she have the legal right, but it is accepted by our society.

So I don't think that divorce is some sort of "problem" that needs to be fixed. I think divorce is the solution to the problem of unhappy marriages. But I know what you mean. How can we avoid unhappy marriages? Most likely, by taking our relationships slower. Couples should spend more time together before they decide to become life partners. Part of that should be a return to the traditional: waiting for the approval of the family before taking the next step will help slow down the relationship. But I don't think all old values are good ones. I believe that couples should have sex before marriage. Its important to verify that each partner will satisfy the other, and therefore that either partner would be less inclined to cheat. I also think it is important to live with someone before you marry them, to test out what the rest of your life will be like. If either of these last two things are disrespectful to the girls father or family, I think consideration of a happy married life should outweigh that.  

[whatagirlwants]

Kaiyle Brightblade

There is more than one way to look at the problem of divorce rates and the number of single mothers rising in this country. I agree that it is partially due to careless relationship decisions that take place without the second opinion of friends and family. But I believe the main cause is that women are more empowered in today's society. In the past, a girl would marry young, often to someone her parents had chosen. Almost never could a girl marry if her parents did not consent to the match. Once married, she stayed married for the rest of her life or his. If the husband was abusive, unfaithful, or a layabout the wife learned to live with it.

We see more divorces and more single mothers because women no longer stand for this sort of treatment. Cheating husband? Unemployed for years and coming home stoned? She has the legal right to divorce him and raise the kids on her own. Not only does she have the legal right, but it is accepted by our society.

So I don't think that divorce is some sort of "problem" that needs to be fixed. I think divorce is the solution to the problem of unhappy marriages. But I know what you mean. How can we avoid unhappy marriages? Most likely, by taking our relationships slower. Couples should spend more time together before they decide to become life partners. Part of that should be a return to the traditional: waiting for the approval of the family before taking the next step will help slow down the relationship. But I don't think all old values are good ones. I believe that couples should have sex before marriage. Its important to verify that each partner will satisfy the other, and therefore that either partner would be less inclined to cheat. I also think it is important to live with someone before you marry them, to test out what the rest of your life will be like. If either of these last two things are disrespectful to the girls father or family, I think consideration of a happy married life should outweigh that.

I agree with you mostly...that being sex. Sex is only partially compatability its also about flexability and and a learned skill. So I don't think you need to have sex first but you do need to be willing and open to talking about sex with your spouce to figure out together what works and doesn't. I have turned "OMG get this over with must fake to get him off me" guys into sex gods by talking to them...this is if they listen.  

[Shuh-duh-fuh-cup]

I have been courting the same person for 4 years now, but I have had the aproval of his parents for a long time. Courting is not just getting the aproval of the parents, it is also a better prep. for marriage. While your a courting their are rules that you have to follow for the first couple of dates.

The first rule, The first 3 dates MUST be a dinner with the parents.
Second rule, The next 2 dates, you must bring ONE sibling along. (that is so you know if they will get along with you siblings or not).
Third rule, that is when you can go out on dates by your self, but you must be home by 9:30 p.m.

And after all of those rules have been followed, then you get ready for marriage. (That is if you still want to marry that person).