Random Thoughs on Avatar and The Book of Eli

[Kenshin1387]

I just got home from seeing The Book of Eli and I was totally shocked and blown away by it. It surely wasn't the film that I thought it was going to be. For those who have seen it what do you think?

I was not however blown away by Avatar, it was gorgeous visually but I thought that it just didn't have the character development or that great of a story. What didn't help matters is that I found an article that explained James Cameron's original thought/ideas about the film and how amazing it could have been.

I know I am comparing it apples to oranges with The Book of Eli but for me a movie should be character/story driven. I like to be challenged and have to think my way through a film, The Book of Eli delivered that for me 100%. Anyone else share this view? If not, what aspects of a film make it worthwhile for you?

Please keep things civil! I know a lot of people are very protective of Avatar and if you loved the movie that is great and I can respect that. We are all different and like different things.  

[Rosary16]

I know how you feel, dude.
I haven't seen Book of Eli and I've been dying to see it, but I did see Avatar and the visuals were great and impressive, but James Cameron totally neglected the character development. As for the story, I wouldn't be surprised if word got out that he took the Dances with Wolves script, cut and pasted it, and changed the dialogue. I say this because the story is basically Dances with Wolves but with blue alien people.
Personally I think James Cameron the director is a season pro, but James Cameron the writer is an amateur. A perfect movie is a movie with stunning visuals, an original and enriched story, and characters that could walk right out of the screen and be real people. Avatar only hit the visually-stunning mark. Had Cameron gone deeper into the characters and come up with a plot that hasn't been used in ten other movies or if he had at least transended the guy-goes-behind-enemy-lines-and-becomes-one-of-them-and-turns-against-his-own genre, it would have been a perfect movie.
He says he might make a sequel. Hopefully the Avatar sequel will be more original story-wise.
But what do I know? I'm just a mere moviegoer.  

[Kenshin1387]

Rosary16

I know how you feel, dude.
I haven't seen Book of Eli and I've been dying to see it, but I did see Avatar and the visuals were great and impressive, but James Cameron totally neglected the character development. As for the story, I wouldn't be surprised if word got out that he took the Dances with Wolves script, cut and pasted it, and changed the dialogue. I say this because the story is basically Dances with Wolves but with blue alien people.
Personally I think James Cameron the director is a season pro, but James Cameron the writer is an amateur. A perfect movie is a movie with stunning visuals, an original and enriched story, and characters that could walk right out of the screen and be real people. Avatar only hit the visually-stunning mark. Had Cameron gone deeper into the characters and come up with a plot that hasn't been used in ten other movies or if he had at least transended the guy-goes-behind-enemy-lines-and-becomes-one-of-them-and-turns-against-his-own genre, it would have been a perfect movie.
He says he might make a sequel. Hopefully the Avatar sequel will be more original story-wise.
But what do I know? I'm just a mere moviegoer.

A sequel?? I really don't see how that would work, there really weren't any unanswered questions and it ended happily. I guess Mr. Cameron didn't make enough money on this first film.  

[Rosary16]

Oh, he made quite a lot of money on this movie. He said if the movie works, he'll consider a sequel.
I don't see how that would work, either.  

[Kenshin1387]

Rosary16

Oh, he made quite a lot of money on this movie. He said if the movie works, he'll consider a sequel.
I don't see how that would work, either.

Yeah, the money comment I made was sarcasm. I think the movie is in the billions of dollars right now.  

[sankapoo]

eek You weren't blown away by avatar!? Homg that movie screamed at Americans for what we did against the native Americans. We came to this country and saw all of this glorious land but there was someone already on it. And because they weren't as "advance" as us we thought of them as savages and wanted them to leave. when they wouldn't we grabbed our guns and killed them until the rest of them eventually fled.

Same thing in Avatar. We saw (what Plutonium?), which just happened to be underneath these people's( who we didn't understand) home, we asked them to leave so we could not only destroy their home but their planet. They refused and when they refused, (because it's just wrong to dig up someones home so you can make yourself a little cash) we decided to kill them anyways. Because they were sitting on something we wanted. It was a huge slap in the face on how we don't give a s**t about nature (which we don't because we're constantly cutting down trees, either because we don't like them/ to sell them or to place a huge condo or development of houses that won't sell in this market up) and how when we see something we want we'll just go ahead and take it. No matter what we destroy in the process or who. (women, children, men)  

[Rosary16]

sankapoo

eek You weren't blown away by avatar!? Homg that movie screamed at Americans for what we did against the native Americans. We came to this country and saw all of this glorious land but there was someone already on it. And because they weren't as "advance" as us we thought of them as savages and wanted them to leave. when they wouldn't we grabbed our guns and killed them until the rest of them eventually fled.

Same thing in Avatar. We saw (what Plutonium?), which just happened to be underneath these people's( who we didn't understand) home, we asked them to leave so we could not only destroy their home but their planet. They refused and when they refused, (because it's just wrong to dig up someones home so you can make yourself a little cash) we decided to kill them anyways. Because they were sitting on something we wanted. It was a huge slap in the face on how we don't give a s**t about nature (which we don't because we're constantly cutting down trees, either because we don't like them/ to sell them or to place a huge condo or development of houses that won't sell in this market up) and how when we see something we want we'll just go ahead and take it. No matter what we destroy in the process or who. (women, children, men)

Dude, calm down.
I'm Native American, so I liked that Avatar addressed what the government did to the Native Americans. Plus the visuals were truly excelllent.
What I resisted about Avatar was that the characters (except Grace Augustine and Neytiri) were so underwritten that I felt disconneted from the movie the whole time and the plot has been used in like ten other movies.
You are perfectly entitled to your opinion, but so are we.  

[Kenshin1387]

sankapoo

eek You weren't blown away by avatar!? Homg that movie screamed at Americans for what we did against the native Americans. We came to this country and saw all of this glorious land but there was someone already on it. And because they weren't as "advance" as us we thought of them as savages and wanted them to leave. when they wouldn't we grabbed our guns and killed them until the rest of them eventually fled.

Same thing in Avatar. We saw (what Plutonium?), which just happened to be underneath these people's( who we didn't understand) home, we asked them to leave so we could not only destroy their home but their planet. They refused and when they refused, (because it's just wrong to dig up someones home so you can make yourself a little cash) we decided to kill them anyways. Because they were sitting on something we wanted. It was a huge slap in the face on how we don't give a s**t about nature (which we don't because we're constantly cutting down trees, either because we don't like them/ to sell them or to place a huge condo or development of houses that won't sell in this market up) and how when we see something we want we'll just go ahead and take it. No matter what we destroy in the process or who. (women, children, men)

If I wanted to watch a movie that dealt with Native Americans and "the white man" I would just watch Dances with Wolves again. I feel that Avatar is nothing but a pretty movie, nothing out of the ordinary in script. Read this review of Avatar, I think it really highlights things that Cameron took out of the film that we got that could have taken the cliche we saw and made it something original, or at least would have brought the characters more into the spotlight.  

[King of Paradise]

For Avatar:

I'm not one for understanding people's contradictions in taste (I'm not targeting anyone specifically here...)

If your the type of person who loves dances with wolves/the last samurai/etc.. then logically, you should love avatar as well.

It is basically the same, no?

People who give negative reviews based on unoriginality and cliched premises confuse me, as well.

Same thing: Even if it is the same concept of another movie's story, than it should get the same amount of love (or hate) that that other movie got...As long as the movie is as well executed, which i think many would agree Avatar was...

And from what I know, Dances with Wolves didn't really get any hate (In fact, it basically got universal acclaim), while reviews of this movie are mostly favorable at best.

...Huh? Why only mostly?

And I thought this movie was very developemental with it's characters. I mean, if Jake Sully remained the same throughout, then he probably would have followed through betraying the Na'Vi rather then helping them. And Neytiri probably wouldn't have fallen in love, and Grace wouldn't have come around to liking the Marine...And, well, I think you get my point.

Overall, when watching it for the first time, like you, I was thinking "ripoff!". But then I remembered "Oh, wait, I enjoyed Dances with Wolves". So I appreciated Avatar a lot more the second time.  

[Rosary16]

The visuals were amazing and I was impressed with how Cameron came up with the Na'vi culture, but I probably would have fully embraced it the way so many people have if the plot was a little more original and the characters had some depth to them. I think there could've been more to Jake Sully. He's a crippled marine! That would've been a perfect character study. I don't think Cameron went deep enough into Jake's character. Maybe he's trying to make us forget Jake's disability, but in doing so he neglected the thoughts and emotions that come with not being able to use your legs. I'm not saying Jake should've been a self-pitying guy, but I'm sure it ticked him off coming back from his Avatar body knowing that in the human world his disability restricts him from living fully and he can only achieve a full life lying in a pod and being psychically connected to a blue alien guy with glowing eyes.
It was good, but I think there could have been more to the story.  

[Kenshin1387]

Chase Me To The End

For Avatar:

I'm not one for understanding people's contradictions in taste (I'm not targeting anyone specifically here...)

If your the type of person who loves dances with wolves/the last samurai/etc.. then logically, you should love avatar as well.

It is basically the same, no?

People who give negative reviews based on unoriginality and cliched premises confuse me, as well.

Same thing: Even if it is the same concept of another movie's story, than it should get the same amount of love (or hate) that that other movie got...As long as the movie is as well executed, which i think many would agree Avatar was...

And from what I know, Dances with Wolves didn't really get any hate (In fact, it basically got universal acclaim), while reviews of this movie are mostly favorable at best.

...Huh? Why only mostly?

And I thought this movie was very developemental with it's characters. I mean, if Jake Sully remained the same throughout, then he probably would have followed through betraying the Na'Vi rather then helping them. And Neytiri probably wouldn't have fallen in love, and Grace wouldn't have come around to liking the Marine...And, well, I think you get my point.

Overall, when watching it for the first time, like you, I was thinking "ripoff!". But then I remembered "Oh, wait, I enjoyed Dances with Wolves". So I appreciated Avatar a lot more the second time.

Yes, I realize that what you have pointed out should be true, but for me it wasn't.

Actually, when I came out of the theater from watching Avatar I would and did say that I thought it was really good, a bit slow in the beginning but still good. The more I thought about it afterwords I realized that I was just basing these feeling on how visually appealing the film was. I began to separate its visuals and story, realizing that I never felt any attachment to any of the characters, least of all Jake, who I should have been the most attached to. I understand that he did progress as a character but, (to me) it wasn't enough. The other films that are compared to this one, like Dances with Wolves or The Last Samurai as you pointed out, were more character driven and more time, I thought, was spent in getting the audience to feel for them.

I also realize that when you boil any movie down to it's most basic parts that they all are the same, but I felt that Avatar was already boiled down to this basic frame. From what I read about Project 880, I think Mr. Cameron cut out all the parts that would have bulked up this frame, like the character of Hegner who was cut from Avatar's script. (And I know that could of/would of/should of can be applied to this last statement.)  

[sankapoo]

Rosary16

sankapoo

eek You weren't blown away by avatar!? Homg that movie screamed at Americans for what we did against the native Americans. We came to this country and saw all of this glorious land but there was someone already on it. And because they weren't as "advance" as us we thought of them as savages and wanted them to leave. when they wouldn't we grabbed our guns and killed them until the rest of them eventually fled.

Same thing in Avatar. We saw (what Plutonium?), which just happened to be underneath these people's( who we didn't understand) home, we asked them to leave so we could not only destroy their home but their planet. They refused and when they refused, (because it's just wrong to dig up someones home so you can make yourself a little cash) we decided to kill them anyways. Because they were sitting on something we wanted. It was a huge slap in the face on how we don't give a s**t about nature (which we don't because we're constantly cutting down trees, either because we don't like them/ to sell them or to place a huge condo or development of houses that won't sell in this market up) and how when we see something we want we'll just go ahead and take it. No matter what we destroy in the process or who. (women, children, men)

Dude, calm down.
I'm Native American, so I liked that Avatar addressed what the government did to the Native Americans. Plus the visuals were truly excelllent.
What I resisted about Avatar was that the characters (except Grace Augustine and Neytiri) were so underwritten that I felt disconneted from the movie the whole time and the plot has been used in like ten other movies.
You are perfectly entitled to your opinion, but so are we.

I'm not angry xd It just seems like all everyone see's in this film is special effects. And I have to say I felt very attached to the characters. Minus Jake. He was underdeveloped but I didn't get the feeling that the movie was about him. It was more about this new culture we had discovered and how we treat them differently when they're totally different from us. I think that if we had gotten so involved with Jake's character I think I probably would have gotten bored. I mean, he lost his legs, probably in war and after his twin died, controlling his avatar was a way to get his legs back. yes it would have maybe been nice to see some more emotional turmoil in there, but the bit that they gave us was good enough I think. For me anyways.

And yes If I wanted to watch the "white man" obliterate the native Americans I could just once again watch Dances With Wolves but it was rather refreshing to see the good guys win in this case and knowing that there might be a higher power out there who's not just going to stand there and watch as good innocent people die because their opponent has bigger weapons. And with DWW I felt....sad.  

[Kenshin1387]

sankapoo

Rosary16

sankapoo

eek You weren't blown away by avatar!? Homg that movie screamed at Americans for what we did against the native Americans. We came to this country and saw all of this glorious land but there was someone already on it. And because they weren't as "advance" as us we thought of them as savages and wanted them to leave. when they wouldn't we grabbed our guns and killed them until the rest of them eventually fled.

Same thing in Avatar. We saw (what Plutonium?), which just happened to be underneath these people's( who we didn't understand) home, we asked them to leave so we could not only destroy their home but their planet. They refused and when they refused, (because it's just wrong to dig up someones home so you can make yourself a little cash) we decided to kill them anyways. Because they were sitting on something we wanted. It was a huge slap in the face on how we don't give a s**t about nature (which we don't because we're constantly cutting down trees, either because we don't like them/ to sell them or to place a huge condo or development of houses that won't sell in this market up) and how when we see something we want we'll just go ahead and take it. No matter what we destroy in the process or who. (women, children, men)

Dude, calm down.
I'm Native American, so I liked that Avatar addressed what the government did to the Native Americans. Plus the visuals were truly excelllent.
What I resisted about Avatar was that the characters (except Grace Augustine and Neytiri) were so underwritten that I felt disconneted from the movie the whole time and the plot has been used in like ten other movies.
You are perfectly entitled to your opinion, but so are we.

I'm not angry xd It just seems like all everyone see's in this film is special effects. And I have to say I felt very attached to the characters. Minus Jake. He was underdeveloped but I didn't get the feeling that the movie was about him. It was more about this new culture we had discovered and how we treat them differently when they're totally different from us. I think that if we had gotten so involved with Jake's character I think I probably would have gotten bored. I mean, he lost his legs, probably in war and after his twin died, controlling his avatar was a way to get his legs back. yes it would have maybe been nice to see some more emotional turmoil in there, but the bit that they gave us was good enough I think. For me anyways.

And yes If I wanted to watch the "white man" obliterate the native Americans I could just once again watch Dances With Wolves but it was rather refreshing to see the good guys win in this case and knowing that there might be a higher power out there who's not just going to stand there and watch as good innocent people die because their opponent has bigger weapons. And with DWW I felt....sad.

You do have a point with this one ending with the natives actually winning, we don't really see a whole lot of that ever.  

[Rosary16]

I just saw Book of Eli and I was blown away! It was excellent!