Gay-Rights Article

[Prince Ikari]

I just wanted to see what people though of this article I was reading. I'll admit though a lot of you here will be to in denial to believe it, but I was bullied the same as those people. Gay-rights activists do bully those who don't support gay-rights. Last year I had ten people yelling at me and "attacking" me because I was the only one around who didn't support gay marriage. Gay-rights activists demonize those who don't believe and call them intolerant, hateful, backwards, bigots, etc. It's what's wrong with the movement as I've pointed out several times in the past. You don't win rights but bullying the other side and demeaning them. You respect others opinions and try to persuade others in a peaceful manner why to support your cause. When I read articles like that saying that gay-rights activists are harassing gay-rights foes is just despicable. And as I told someone here awhile back, it pushes moderates like me who are open to compromise away. I've always been a strong advocate for civil unions for gays and lesbians as a way to preserve traditional marriage for my fellow conservatives, but still have a way that gays and lesbians can consummate their love too, along with the benefits provided by traditional marriage. I'm not saying anyone here has bullied anyone, but I did want to bring this issue to light if it is occurring. No civil rights movement has been successful by bullying the opposing side.  

[Banghart]

I do agree with you on the fact that no one should be pushed or yelled at just because of what they belive in. If you don't agree then just leave it like that and respect each other as people. It's ok to disagree with people. What pushes it over the edge is when people try to force their oppinions on other people. I'm sorry to hear that you were bullied over your beliefs. I happen to dissagree with you on the fact that it shouldn't be legalized but it's perfectly fine that you see a different way. I don't see people getting into arrguments helping anyone though.  

[Gordums]

I agree with you - there shouldn't be any bullying. I also am against gay marriage myself, identifying as a gay male myself. But that's a different story.

If there are going to be bullies on one side, there will always be bullies on the other side. It's important to respect people's opinions and their ability to think. When we force and subjugate people to certain ideas, we decrease their ability to use that idea and live it.

 

[Shilberu Erikku]

Every side of an issue has its autrophilosophobic assholes. It's best to just ignore them and let them be stupid. Personally, I think we should just abolish marriage altogether.Why not just simply abolish civil marriage altogether and replace it with civil partnerships for all (also open to non-conjugal partnerships)? Churches or humanists groups could still celebrate marriages but they wouldn’t be recognized by the state.  

[Prince Ikari]

Shilberu Erikku

Every side of an issue has its australophilosophobic assholes. It's best to just ignore them and let them be stupid. Personally, I think we should just abolish marriage altogether. sweatdrop

That's true. I wouldn't go so far as to abolish marriage though. My dream in life is to one day get married and start a family. Marriage is good for couples, it's healthy. I read an essay back in one of my college English classes called "Why Marriage Is Good for You" by Maggie Gallagher, and it listed the top ten reasons why marriage is good for individuals.

10. It's Safer.

"Marriage lowers the risk that both men and women will become victims of violence, including domestic violence."

9. It Can Save Your Life.

"Married people live longer and healthier lives."

8. It Can Save Your Kid's Life.

"Children lead healthier, longer lives if parents get and stay married."

7.You Will Earn More Money.

6. Did I Mention You'll Get Much Richer?

"Married people not only make more money, they manage money better and build more wealth together than either would alone."

5. You'll Tame His Cheatin' Heart (Hers, Too).

"Marriage increases sexual fidelity."

4. You Won't Go Bonkers.

"Marriage is good for mental health."

3. It Will Make You Happy.

"Overall, 40 percent of married people, compared with a quarter of singles or cohabitors, say they are "very happy" with life in general."

2. Your Kids Will Love You More.

"Divorce weakens the bonds between parents and children over the long run."

1. You'll Have Better Sex, More Often.

"Both husbands and wives are more likely to report that they have an extremely satisfying sex life than singles or cohabitors.

Married people also are most likely to report a highly satisfying sex life."

So I wouldn't want to abolish marriage. I think it's those who don't truly love or have had a bad experience with marriage who believe it should be abolished.  

[Shilberu Erikku]

kh.ikari

Shilberu Erikku

Every side of an issue has its autrophilosophobic assholes. It's best to just ignore them and let them be stupid. Personally, I think we should just abolish marriage altogether. sweatdrop

That's true. I wouldn't go so far as to abolish marriage though. My dream in life is to one day get married and start a family. Marriage is good for couples, it's healthy. I read an essay back in one of my college English classes called "Why Marriage Is Good for You" by Maggie Gallagher, and it listed the top ten reasons why marriage is good for individuals.

10. It's Safer.

"Marriage lowers the risk that both men and women will become victims of violence, including domestic violence."

9. It Can Save Your Life.

"Married people live longer and healthier lives."

8. It Can Save Your Kid's Life.

"Children lead healthier, longer lives if parents get and stay married."

7.You Will Earn More Money.

6. Did I Mention You'll Get Much Richer?

"Married people not only make more money, they manage money better and build more wealth together than either would alone."

5. You'll Tame His Cheatin' Heart (Hers, Too).

"Marriage increases sexual fidelity."

4. You Won't Go Bonkers.

"Marriage is good for mental health."

3. It Will Make You Happy.

"Overall, 40 percent of married people, compared with a quarter of singles or cohabitors, say they are "very happy" with life in general."

2. Your Kids Will Love You More.

"Divorce weakens the bonds between parents and children over the long run."

1. You'll Have Better Sex, More Often.

"Both husbands and wives are more likely to report that they have an extremely satisfying sex life than singles or cohabitors.

Married people also are most likely to report a highly satisfying sex life."

So I wouldn't want to abolish marriage. I think it's those who don't truly love or have had a bad experience with marriage who believe it should be abolished.

But if we just called ALL state issued marriages civil unions, and reduced "marriage" to an optional stop at a church afterwards, wouldn't the end results just be the same?  

[Prince Ikari]

Shilberu Erikku

kh.ikari

Shilberu Erikku

Every side of an issue has its autrophilosophobic assholes. It's best to just ignore them and let them be stupid. Personally, I think we should just abolish marriage altogether. sweatdrop

That's true. I wouldn't go so far as to abolish marriage though. My dream in life is to one day get married and start a family. Marriage is good for couples, it's healthy. I read an essay back in one of my college English classes called "Why Marriage Is Good for You" by Maggie Gallagher, and it listed the top ten reasons why marriage is good for individuals.

10. It's Safer.

"Marriage lowers the risk that both men and women will become victims of violence, including domestic violence."

9. It Can Save Your Life.

"Married people live longer and healthier lives."

8. It Can Save Your Kid's Life.

"Children lead healthier, longer lives if parents get and stay married."

7.You Will Earn More Money.

6. Did I Mention You'll Get Much Richer?

"Married people not only make more money, they manage money better and build more wealth together than either would alone."

5. You'll Tame His Cheatin' Heart (Hers, Too).

"Marriage increases sexual fidelity."

4. You Won't Go Bonkers.

"Marriage is good for mental health."

3. It Will Make You Happy.

"Overall, 40 percent of married people, compared with a quarter of singles or cohabitors, say they are "very happy" with life in general."

2. Your Kids Will Love You More.

"Divorce weakens the bonds between parents and children over the long run."

1. You'll Have Better Sex, More Often.

"Both husbands and wives are more likely to report that they have an extremely satisfying sex life than singles or cohabitors.

Married people also are most likely to report a highly satisfying sex life."

So I wouldn't want to abolish marriage. I think it's those who don't truly love or have had a bad experience with marriage who believe it should be abolished.

But if we just called ALL state issued marriages civil unions, and reduced "marriage" to an optional stop at a church afterwards, wouldn't the end results just be the same?

I wouldn't consider it the same. To me, marriage is much greater than civil unions. Civil unions, are just a contractual agreements for those who don't fit the official definition of [traditional] marriage. I guess in a way, it's the same thing as far as the government is concerned, but it doesn't carry with it the power that marriage does. Marriage has more emotion to it, whereas a civil union is just going and getting a license saying you're together. Marriage is a ceremony where you have all your family and friends come out and celebrate in your consummation of love together before God. Many wouldn't agree, but to me, marriage and religion go hand in hand. I would only marry in a church because that's the way I believe, or if I didn't get married in a church, I would at least have a pastor or priest there to marry me and my future wife.  

[Shilberu Erikku]

kh.ikari

Shilberu Erikku

kh.ikari

Shilberu Erikku

Every side of an issue has its autrophilosophobic assholes. It's best to just ignore them and let them be stupid. Personally, I think we should just abolish marriage altogether. sweatdrop

That's true. I wouldn't go so far as to abolish marriage though. My dream in life is to one day get married and start a family. Marriage is good for couples, it's healthy. I read an essay back in one of my college English classes called "Why Marriage Is Good for You" by Maggie Gallagher, and it listed the top ten reasons why marriage is good for individuals.

10. It's Safer.

"Marriage lowers the risk that both men and women will become victims of violence, including domestic violence."

9. It Can Save Your Life.

"Married people live longer and healthier lives."

8. It Can Save Your Kid's Life.

"Children lead healthier, longer lives if parents get and stay married."

7.You Will Earn More Money.

6. Did I Mention You'll Get Much Richer?

"Married people not only make more money, they manage money better and build more wealth together than either would alone."

5. You'll Tame His Cheatin' Heart (Hers, Too).

"Marriage increases sexual fidelity."

4. You Won't Go Bonkers.

"Marriage is good for mental health."

3. It Will Make You Happy.

"Overall, 40 percent of married people, compared with a quarter of singles or cohabitors, say they are "very happy" with life in general."

2. Your Kids Will Love You More.

"Divorce weakens the bonds between parents and children over the long run."

1. You'll Have Better Sex, More Often.

"Both husbands and wives are more likely to report that they have an extremely satisfying sex life than singles or cohabitors.

Married people also are most likely to report a highly satisfying sex life."

So I wouldn't want to abolish marriage. I think it's those who don't truly love or have had a bad experience with marriage who believe it should be abolished.

But if we just called ALL state issued marriages civil unions, and reduced "marriage" to an optional stop at a church afterwards, wouldn't the end results just be the same?

I wouldn't consider it the same. To me, marriage is much greater than civil unions. Civil unions, are just a contractual agreements for those who don't fit the official definition of [traditional] marriage. I guess in a way, it's the same thing as far as the government is concerned, but it doesn't carry with it the power that marriage does. Marriage has more emotion to it, whereas a civil union is just going and getting a license saying you're together. Marriage is a ceremony where you have all your family and friends come out and celebrate in your consummation of love together before God. Many wouldn't agree, but to me, marriage and religion go hand in hand. I would only marry in a church because that's the way I believe, or if I didn't get married in a church, I would at least have a pastor or priest there to marry me and my future wife.

So, you're saying an athiest marriage isn't a marriage?  

[Prince Ikari]

Shilberu Erikku

kh.ikari

Shilberu Erikku

kh.ikari

Shilberu Erikku

Every side of an issue has its autrophilosophobic assholes. It's best to just ignore them and let them be stupid. Personally, I think we should just abolish marriage altogether. sweatdrop

That's true. I wouldn't go so far as to abolish marriage though. My dream in life is to one day get married and start a family. Marriage is good for couples, it's healthy. I read an essay back in one of my college English classes called "Why Marriage Is Good for You" by Maggie Gallagher, and it listed the top ten reasons why marriage is good for individuals.

10. It's Safer.

"Marriage lowers the risk that both men and women will become victims of violence, including domestic violence."

9. It Can Save Your Life.

"Married people live longer and healthier lives."

8. It Can Save Your Kid's Life.

"Children lead healthier, longer lives if parents get and stay married."

7.You Will Earn More Money.

6. Did I Mention You'll Get Much Richer?

"Married people not only make more money, they manage money better and build more wealth together than either would alone."

5. You'll Tame His Cheatin' Heart (Hers, Too).

"Marriage increases sexual fidelity."

4. You Won't Go Bonkers.

"Marriage is good for mental health."

3. It Will Make You Happy.

"Overall, 40 percent of married people, compared with a quarter of singles or cohabitors, say they are "very happy" with life in general."

2. Your Kids Will Love You More.

"Divorce weakens the bonds between parents and children over the long run."

1. You'll Have Better Sex, More Often.

"Both husbands and wives are more likely to report that they have an extremely satisfying sex life than singles or cohabitors.

Married people also are most likely to report a highly satisfying sex life."

So I wouldn't want to abolish marriage. I think it's those who don't truly love or have had a bad experience with marriage who believe it should be abolished.

But if we just called ALL state issued marriages civil unions, and reduced "marriage" to an optional stop at a church afterwards, wouldn't the end results just be the same?

I wouldn't consider it the same. To me, marriage is much greater than civil unions. Civil unions, are just a contractual agreements for those who don't fit the official definition of [traditional] marriage. I guess in a way, it's the same thing as far as the government is concerned, but it doesn't carry with it the power that marriage does. Marriage has more emotion to it, whereas a civil union is just going and getting a license saying you're together. Marriage is a ceremony where you have all your family and friends come out and celebrate in your consummation of love together before God. Many wouldn't agree, but to me, marriage and religion go hand in hand. I would only marry in a church because that's the way I believe, or if I didn't get married in a church, I would at least have a pastor or priest there to marry me and my future wife.

So, you're saying an athiest marriage isn't a marriage?

I don't really know. I've never heard of an atheist having a wedding ceremony before. I figured for atheists, they just go and get the proper paper work and that's as far as it goes. I wouldn't really know. There are no atheists where I live as far as I know. I live in the Bible belt.  

[Le Scratch]

On the subject of bullying, it's an extremist viewpoint. Not everyone is going to support equality. Hell, there are still those out there that don't support equality for those of African descent and they've been legally equal for over a half century. While it is important to make that aware that such extremists exist, it's also important to note that they are the extreme, not the norm. It's the same way the 'flaming gay' is, while the most visible of the gay community, not the norm. It's never right to bully another group simply because they don't agree and it's also worth noting (as explained below) that anti-gay marriage is not anti-gay rights.

On the subject of marriage, it's a sketchy thing. It always will be sketchy, even if we eventually get equality on a legal level (i.e same benefits as traditional married couples). It's a question of definitions and that will have to be answered by each state and by each church individually. I support equality before the law, not necessarily marriage, and nothing more. Marriage is not conducive to a happy life nor is it necessary, much as statistics suggest otherwise. Correlation does not mean or imply causation and with all statistical studies it is important to note that difference. It takes additional study to prove causation, though I won't go into that here.  

[Shilberu Erikku]

kh.ikari

Shilberu Erikku

kh.ikari

Shilberu Erikku

kh.ikari

Shilberu Erikku

Every side of an issue has its autrophilosophobic assholes. It's best to just ignore them and let them be stupid. Personally, I think we should just abolish marriage altogether. sweatdrop

That's true. I wouldn't go so far as to abolish marriage though. My dream in life is to one day get married and start a family. Marriage is good for couples, it's healthy. I read an essay back in one of my college English classes called "Why Marriage Is Good for You" by Maggie Gallagher, and it listed the top ten reasons why marriage is good for individuals.

10. It's Safer.

"Marriage lowers the risk that both men and women will become victims of violence, including domestic violence."

9. It Can Save Your Life.

"Married people live longer and healthier lives."

8. It Can Save Your Kid's Life.

"Children lead healthier, longer lives if parents get and stay married."

7.You Will Earn More Money.

6. Did I Mention You'll Get Much Richer?

"Married people not only make more money, they manage money better and build more wealth together than either would alone."

5. You'll Tame His Cheatin' Heart (Hers, Too).

"Marriage increases sexual fidelity."

4. You Won't Go Bonkers.

"Marriage is good for mental health."

3. It Will Make You Happy.

"Overall, 40 percent of married people, compared with a quarter of singles or cohabitors, say they are "very happy" with life in general."

2. Your Kids Will Love You More.

"Divorce weakens the bonds between parents and children over the long run."

1. You'll Have Better Sex, More Often.

"Both husbands and wives are more likely to report that they have an extremely satisfying sex life than singles or cohabitors.

Married people also are most likely to report a highly satisfying sex life."

So I wouldn't want to abolish marriage. I think it's those who don't truly love or have had a bad experience with marriage who believe it should be abolished.

But if we just called ALL state issued marriages civil unions, and reduced "marriage" to an optional stop at a church afterwards, wouldn't the end results just be the same?

I wouldn't consider it the same. To me, marriage is much greater than civil unions. Civil unions, are just a contractual agreements for those who don't fit the official definition of [traditional] marriage. I guess in a way, it's the same thing as far as the government is concerned, but it doesn't carry with it the power that marriage does. Marriage has more emotion to it, whereas a civil union is just going and getting a license saying you're together. Marriage is a ceremony where you have all your family and friends come out and celebrate in your consummation of love together before God. Many wouldn't agree, but to me, marriage and religion go hand in hand. I would only marry in a church because that's the way I believe, or if I didn't get married in a church, I would at least have a pastor or priest there to marry me and my future wife.

So, you're saying an athiest marriage isn't a marriage?

I don't really know. I've never heard of an atheist having a wedding ceremony before. I figured for atheists, they just go and get the proper paper work and that's as far as it goes. I wouldn't really know. There are no atheists where I live as far as I know. I live in the Bible belt.

Actually, a lot of athiests DO get wedding ceremonies,mainly for two reasons:
1. the romantic factor of it
2. the sake of tradition and family.  

[Sparky the Panda]

I think both sides of the debate are a bit overzealous in their name calling at times. It's one thing to be passionate, it's another to be downright rude. People need to chill the hell out. Be mature, kiddos.  

[Prince Ikari]

Sparky the Panda

I think both sides of the debate are a bit overzealous in their name calling at times. It's one thing to be passionate, it's another to be downright rude. People need to chill the hell out. Be mature, kiddos.

Agreed!  

[Prince Ikari]

Shilberu Erikku

kh.ikari

Shilberu Erikku

kh.ikari

Shilberu Erikku

But if we just called ALL state issued marriages civil unions, and reduced "marriage" to an optional stop at a church afterwards, wouldn't the end results just be the same?

I wouldn't consider it the same. To me, marriage is much greater than civil unions. Civil unions, are just a contractual agreements for those who don't fit the official definition of [traditional] marriage. I guess in a way, it's the same thing as far as the government is concerned, but it doesn't carry with it the power that marriage does. Marriage has more emotion to it, whereas a civil union is just going and getting a license saying you're together. Marriage is a ceremony where you have all your family and friends come out and celebrate in your consummation of love together before God. Many wouldn't agree, but to me, marriage and religion go hand in hand. I would only marry in a church because that's the way I believe, or if I didn't get married in a church, I would at least have a pastor or priest there to marry me and my future wife.

So, you're saying an athiest marriage isn't a marriage?

I don't really know. I've never heard of an atheist having a wedding ceremony before. I figured for atheists, they just go and get the proper paper work and that's as far as it goes. I wouldn't really know. There are no atheists where I live as far as I know. I live in the Bible belt.

Actually, a lot of athiests DO get wedding ceremonies,mainly for two reasons:
1. the romantic factor of it
2. the sake of tradition and family.

That makes sense. A wedding isn't a wedding without the whole ceremony. And that's true, it does have a romantic factor, like being able to read your vows.  

[Prince Ikari]

Le Scratch

On the subject of bullying, it's an extremist viewpoint. Not everyone is going to support equality. Hell, there are still those out there that don't support equality for those of African descent and they've been legally equal for over a half century. While it is important to make that aware that such extremists exist, it's also important to note that they are the extreme, not the norm. It's the same way the 'flaming gay' is, while the most visible of the gay community, not the norm. It's never right to bully another group simply because they don't agree and it's also worth noting (as explained below) that anti-gay marriage is not anti-gay rights.

On the subject of marriage, it's a sketchy thing. It always will be sketchy, even if we eventually get equality on a legal level (i.e same benefits as traditional married couples). It's a question of definitions and that will have to be answered by each state and by each church individually. I support equality before the law, not necessarily marriage, and nothing more. Marriage is not conducive to a happy life nor is it necessary, much as statistics suggest otherwise. Correlation does not mean or imply causation and with all statistical studies it is important to note that difference. It takes additional study to prove causation, though I won't go into that here.

That's true. Equality for the LGBT community is much more controversial if you ask me though then equality for African-Americans. I think by that time, people finally realized that they were people just like everyone else, despite race. Race and sexuality are completely different, because it's undeniable that everyone no matter their race is human, but not everyone believes that homosexuality is natural. But people who still don't support equality for African-Americans are just living in a different time is all. And I agree with your take on the extremes. I also like that your brought up the point that being anti-gay marriage doesn't mean you're anti-gay rights. I may not support gay-marriage, but that doesn't mean I don't support things like I mentioned such as civil unions, and protections to prevent discrimination.

I do agree with the first part you said. In my opinion, I feel it's best left up to the states to determine what they want to do about same-sex marriage. I think that the people should vote and if they vote in favor, then make it legal, and if they don't, then ban it. I'm opposed to the federal government or the courts deciding the issue of same-sex marriage because it's strictly regional. The North and the West support legalization, while the Midwest and South do not support legalization. I don't think it should be imposed on everyone. I do think however, that marriage is conducive to a happy life, in most instances, and to a healthier relationship. Without it, I can see infidelity running rampant among couples and lead to a polyamorous society which honestly sickens me beyond belief.