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 Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:07 pm
You know, telling someone that they should not be a gay stereotype is just as bad, if not worse, than telling someone that they should be more like a gay stereotype. Who the **** are you to tell me who I should be? If your sexual orientation shouldn't define you, why are you putting so much emphasis on being more masculine and "non-gay". Like those guys who call themselves "straight acting". You don't look so straight with a d**k in your mouth!
I am so sick of people sitting there, trying to tell others how they should be. You are not a part of the solution, only a part of the problem! They are no better than those fundamentalist Christians who condemn us to hell. You sit there and complain how the church is denying us our rights while you yourself try to hold other people down for being themselves.
Discuss: Anti-conformity is just as bad, if not worse, than conformity.
Personally, I think anti-conformity is worse than conformity. Yeah, conformists do follow the flock, but anti-conformists not only follow the opposite side of the spectrum, they chastise people for not following their beliefs. I like the way South Park portrayed it, "If you want to be a non-conformist you have to dress like us, talk like us, and listen to the exact same music as us". So in other words, they're glorified, in denial, hypocrites.
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:58 pm
What about the non-conformists that don't chastise people?
And aren't you chastising people yourself without knowing them and isn't that in of itself just as bad? Just a question.
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:13 pm
You know, I kinda feel your anger.
Did you know that there is just as much hate for the gay community in the gay community as there is in the het community? Granted, Hets are usually more violent, but gays can be mentally violent.
Example: I am a bisexual. I'm engaged to a woman, so people would call me a lesbian. I'm not upset about that. I love girls. I love boys too, so technically I'm bi. I'm in the third lowest category on the totem pole. Drag Queens are the second lowest, because "they're clowns", "women wannabes", and "fake". Transexuals are the lowest because they're all whores.
I'm not trolling, just to let you know, I'm saying what I have gathered in my own studies and other studies I've been on TV and online. It's SAD. Very sad. Masculine gay guys think they're better than feminine gay guys and butch lesbians are seen as man wannabes and lipstick lesbians are actually the least disliked. They still dress like girls, act like girls, smile, flirt, giggle, and are generally what society WANTS them to be, so, apparently, it's acceptable. rolleyes
I think all of that is a form of self hate, then again, it happens too in the het community.
All in all, self hate falls into the same category of stupid as racism, sexism, homophobia, heterophobia, and antisemitism. People just need to learn that we are all different and if you're not waking up next to us every morning, then stfu about how we live.
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:55 pm
TaoShaman What about the non-conformists that don't chastise people? And aren't you chastising people yourself without knowing them and isn't that in of itself just as bad? Just a question. True non-conformists don't use the title because doing so makes them exactly what they dislike. If you're truly against the main grain, you just live you life that way without needing any of the recognition, or setting up these rules other people need to follow to be just like you. Labels are a sign of being a poser. Calling yourself a non-conformist, hacker, hippie, etc. is just a way of getting attention. Those who really believe what it means just do it. No, and it irks me when people try to use that as though it's a good come back. It's the whole, "I know you are, but what am I?" approach to the situation. People use it when they know what I'm saying is true, but don't have any way to rebut it. I know these people very well because I've met numerous copies of them all over the place. It's not like I find out they consider themselves "non-conformists" and suddenly I'm like, oh, they're a moron. I always give them the benefit of the doubt that maybe, JUST MAYBE they won't follow the same path. Guess what? 9 times out of 10 they do. First I'll ask them why they feel that way, and they never have a reason. Everyone is entitled to think the way they want to think, but ignorance and hate are not acceptable. Midnyt Tyr You know, I kinda feel your anger.
Did you know that there is just as much hate for the gay community in the gay community as there is in the het community? Granted, Hets are usually more violent, but gays can be mentally violent.
Example: I am a bisexual. I'm engaged to a woman, so people would call me a lesbian. I'm not upset about that. I love girls. I love boys too, so technically I'm bi. I'm in the third lowest category on the totem pole. Drag Queens are the second lowest, because "they're clowns", "women wannabes", and "fake". Transexuals are the lowest because they're all whores.
I'm not trolling, just to let you know, I'm saying what I have gathered in my own studies and other studies I've been on TV and online. It's SAD. Very sad. Masculine gay guys think they're better than feminine gay guys and butch lesbians are seen as man wannabes and lipstick lesbians are actually the least disliked. They still dress like girls, act like girls, smile, flirt, giggle, and are generally what society WANTS them to be, so, apparently, it's acceptable. rolleyes
I think all of that is a form of self hate, then again, it happens too in the het community.
All in all, self hate falls into the same category of stupid as racism, sexism, homophobia, heterophobia, and antisemitism. People just need to learn that we are all different and if you're not waking up next to us every morning, then stfu about how we live. Exactly, as Lincoln said "A house divided against itself cannot stand", and that's what is setting us back. You have those who claim that God saved them from being gay, then you have those who look down on those who fit the gay stereotype, and then you have those that's sole contribution to the community is going out at night and getting laid. It's maddening that people are so confused as to why it's taking so long for us to have our rights. Maybe if we all did our part and stood together, we'd have a solid fight.
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:43 pm
I'm not using it as a comeback. It's just a question and stating what this probably seems to a lot of people. Also some people use labels just out of convenience. We can't all give someone our whole life story to tell them who we are. Sometimes labels are kinda needed since it's not like people really have the time or even really care that much about another person to learn that much about them. The issue is when labels constrict someone from expressing who they are. And also some people just connect with certain labels. Nobody ever said someone has to be just one. And not everyone goes around telling everyone their label to get attention. Again sometimes it's just convenience.
And just,at least in my opinion, using pure anger isn't such a good way to get your point across. It scares people aways since it's practically like screaming in someone's face that they're wrong no matter what they say and that they will always be wrong. It also just comes across as at least mildly rude. Especially when nobody has necessarily done anything.
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:01 pm
“When you are offended at any man's fault, turn to yourself and study your own failings. Then you will forget your anger.”- Epictetus
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:19 pm
Shilberu Erikku “When you are offended at any man's fault, turn to yourself and study your own failings. Then you will forget your anger.”- Epictetus
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:36 pm
You're throwing too may people into a single sterio-type.
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Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:27 am
I would say this affects homosexuals who just don;t understand as well as those who are self loathing. This internalized homophobia is what keeps ups oppressed in our patriarchal societies. As mentioned above, society tries to keep people where it wants them to be, and this is achieved through not only economical means, but social means, as well as many others. When we do what is done to us, we allow ourselves to be oppressed and deny our ability, as well as the ability of all other orientations and backgrounds, genders, minds, and classes to transcend the notion that people fit into categories and are expected to live up to certain social roles on the basis of normativity.
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Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:35 am
sure i dont like to flaunt my orientation around but thats becasue thats who i am and how i was raised. i have no problem if someone else does so long as they dont constantly come up to me and remind me they are gay. ive known a couple people like that, started every sentance with "you know im gay right?"
i love the butch women and i enjoy seeing the girly men because that shows how diverse our society can be, not to mention im very attracted to the butch women lol
i dont think we are going to get anywhere in our fight for rights until we stop the hate on our side towards ourselves. im not saying im perfect. i posted in my thread saying that even though im bi im also a bit biphobic and tend not to give girls the benefit of the doubt, i usually assume they are barsexuals unless i see them with a women which is extremely hypocritical of me since ive never been with many women and im always worried about people thinking the exact same thing about me. its something im trying to get over but its hard when most of the bisexual girls ive met growing up turned out to be barsexuals and admitted they were faking it to get men
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Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:23 am
Shilberu Erikku “When you are offended at any man's fault, turn to yourself and study your own failings. Then you will forget your anger.”- Epictetus You are the LAST person to post this in response. The same person that called everyone from Texas an ignorant red-neck. The SAME person who was sitting there and bitching about the way people celebrate pride. In the world of hypocrites, you are the equivalent of those republican politician assholes that condemn sexuality, but meet men in the back of porn places to have sex. Pathetic, laughable, and at best you use your "condition" as an excuse for the way you are. I even doubt you have anything since everything about you is so you can get more attention.
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Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:20 am
Tsk tsk. sad
I think those people are still afraid to be themselves so they try to "hold back" to not draw negative attention to themselves when they need to know not to care what other people think. :T
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Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:37 am
I don't tell anyone how they should be, beacuse well that's who they are and if they wanna be stereotype, then go right ahead i won't confront you about it and tell you it's wrong, beacuse who the ******** am i to tell you how to live your life? . but i do have a right to my own personal opinion and my personal opinion is, if you can avoid the drama and the whole attention whore thing by dressing silly and s**t, try to do so.
I hate stereotypes, beacuse people are so naive that they believe everyone is the same beacuse they are something.
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Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:30 pm
Sin Error I don't tell anyone how they should be, beacuse well that's who they are and if they wanna be stereotype, then go right ahead i won't confront you about it and tell you it's wrong, beacuse who the ******** am i to tell you how to live your life? . but i do have a right to my own personal opinion and my personal opinion is, if you can avoid the drama and the whole attention whore thing by dressing silly and s**t, try to do so. I hate stereotypes, beacuse people are so naive that they believe everyone is the same beacuse they are something. Yet you're saying that people dress that way cause drama.
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Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:49 pm
StereoTypes...Annoy The S*** Out Of Me. Using Myself As A Example. I'm Gay Yet I Live My Life How I Chose To Live It. If You Were To Look At Me You Wouldn't Suspect That I Was Gay. People Often Tell Me I'm The Straightest Gay Ever Because I'm A DJ,I Skateboard,Play Airsoft, I'm A Car Mechanic Etc. And Often They Tell Me I'm Not Gay Cause I'm Not Girly Like The Stereotype States. A Stereotype Doesn't Mean You Have To Be What It States. If You Like Tight Clothes And Crossdressing Or Whatever Be My Guest I Have No Problem With It But Please Don't Try To Tell Me What I Have To Be.
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