Severus Snape, Potions Master. Hot or not?

[Cake Baby]

In my opinion, Severus Snape is soooo sexy and I'm not just talking about how he's portrayed in the movies. For me, it is not just about his looks. His voice, dark eyes, penchant for life-long loyalty, and tortured soul are just a few things that draw me to him.

Not to mention the fact that I can't help but wonder WHAT IS HE HIDING UNDER THOSE ROBES????  

[[Ren The Ryoko]]

I honestly find him ridiculously UNattractive.
Sure, Alan Rickman is awesome. Super hot. No doubt.

But Snape?
Bitter, angry, greasy, hook nosed bully, Snape?
No thank you. I feel no real attraction to any adult who would treat a child the way Snape treats Hermione and Neville.

 

[Cake Baby]

[Ren The Ryoko]

I honestly find him ridiculously UNattractive.
Sure, Alan Rickman is awesome. Super hot. No doubt.

But Snape?
Bitter, angry, greasy, hook nosed bully, Snape?
No thank you. I feel no real attraction to any adult who would treat a child the way Snape treats Hermione and Neville.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. That does not change the fact that I am very much attracted to him. Have you forgotten the little detail that he is a double spy and therefore cannot be seen to show any compassion or kindness to muggleborns or "blood traitors?" The school is full of the spawn of Death Eaters who will more than likely report any such action to their parents and the Dark Lord. He had to stay in character at ALL times. Not to mention, he always went out of his way to save and protect the children. For example, putting himself between the Trio and the werewolf even though they had stunned him moments before.

All I'm saying is that there is a very good reason he is the way he is. Underneath it all, he is a good man. I can see it, but I understand why you would get hung up on surface appearances.  

[[Ren The Ryoko]]

Cake Baby

[Ren The Ryoko]

I honestly find him ridiculously UNattractive.
Sure, Alan Rickman is awesome. Super hot. No doubt.

But Snape?
Bitter, angry, greasy, hook nosed bully, Snape?
No thank you. I feel no real attraction to any adult who would treat a child the way Snape treats Hermione and Neville.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. That does not change the fact that I am very much attracted to him. Have you forgotten the little detail that he is a double spy and therefore cannot be seen to show any compassion or kindness to muggleborns or "blood traitors?" The school is full of the spawn of Death Eaters who will more than likely report any such action to their parents and the Dark Lord. He had to stay in character at ALL times. Not to mention, he always went out of his way to save and protect the children. For example, putting himself between the Trio and the werewolf even though they had stunned him moments before.

All I'm saying is that there is a very good reason he is the way he is. Underneath it all, he is a good man. I can see it, but I understand why you would get hung up on surface appearances.

The spy excuse is stupid.
The story was that Snape was playing double agent. Voldemort thought Snape was HIS double agent. Not being a bullying dickward would play to that "cover".
It was not a "character" he was playing.

JKR's opinion of Snape:

Who's your favorite character besides Harry Potter?
A: It's very hard to choose. It's fun to write about Snape because he's a deeply horrible person. Hagrid is someone I'd love to meet.
http://www.accio-quote.org/articles/1999/0999-familyeducation-abel.htm

As a teacher, the "worst, shabbiest thing you can do" is to bully children (draws parallel to Snape). Conversations with JK Rowling, p.21

 

[Cake Baby]

[Ren The Ryoko]

Cake Baby

[Ren The Ryoko]

I honestly find him ridiculously UNattractive.
Sure, Alan Rickman is awesome. Super hot. No doubt.

But Snape?
Bitter, angry, greasy, hook nosed bully, Snape?
No thank you. I feel no real attraction to any adult who would treat a child the way Snape treats Hermione and Neville.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. That does not change the fact that I am very much attracted to him. Have you forgotten the little detail that he is a double spy and therefore cannot be seen to show any compassion or kindness to muggleborns or "blood traitors?" The school is full of the spawn of Death Eaters who will more than likely report any such action to their parents and the Dark Lord. He had to stay in character at ALL times. Not to mention, he always went out of his way to save and protect the children. For example, putting himself between the Trio and the werewolf even though they had stunned him moments before.

All I'm saying is that there is a very good reason he is the way he is. Underneath it all, he is a good man. I can see it, but I understand why you would get hung up on surface appearances.

The spy excuse is stupid.
The story was that Snape was playing double agent. Voldemort thought Snape was HIS double agent. Not being a bullying dickward would play to that "cover".
It was not a "character" he was playing.

JKR's opinion of Snape:

Who's your favorite character besides Harry Potter?
A: It's very hard to choose. It's fun to write about Snape because he's a deeply horrible person. Hagrid is someone I'd love to meet.
http://www.accio-quote.org/articles/1999/0999-familyeducation-abel.htm

As a teacher, the "worst, shabbiest thing you can do" is to bully children (draws parallel to Snape). Conversations with JK Rowling, p.21

Like I said, you are entitled to your own opinion. If you choose to follow what J.K.R. opines, then so be it. I didn't post this topic to argue with you. I can see from past threads where you have commented, that you are quite against Severus. And that is just fine.

Thank you for replying.  

[Specter Flux]

Since when is Rowling's opinion the one true guiding light of morality?  

[[Ren The Ryoko]]

Specter Flux

Since when is Rowling's opinion the one true guiding light of morality?

I'm not saying that JKR's opinions are set in stone, and the guiding light of the world.
I'm just pointing out that Snape was NOT intended to be redeemed in full, or that his actions were meant to be excusable.

 

[Specter Flux]

Eh, just because someone does inexcusable things doesn't necessarily mean they're irredeemable, or that they didn't have extremely good reasons.

A lot of things a lot of people in HP did were inexcusable. A lot of them Harry himself did.

In all honesty, I think constantly leading innocent friends into danger because you feel the need to flaunt authority is perhaps even a bit more inexcusable than making fun of people in order to keep a carefully designed cover story which is more or less necessary to saving the world.

Not that I'm saying Snape wasn't a jerkass.

Because he certainly was.  

[Eriis Discord]

Not at all. talk2hand

 

[[Ren The Ryoko]]

Specter Flux

Eh, just because someone does inexcusable things doesn't necessarily mean they're irredeemable, or that they didn't have extremely good reasons.

A lot of things a lot of people in HP did were inexcusable. A lot of them Harry himself did.

In all honesty, I think constantly leading innocent friends into danger because you feel the need to flaunt authority is perhaps even a bit more inexcusable than making fun of people in order to keep a carefully designed cover story which is more or less necessary to saving the world.

Not that I'm saying Snape wasn't a jerkass.

Because he certainly was.

Snape did not publicly humiliate Hermione and Neville in his class for a cover story.
That doesn't even make sense.
Voldemort was under the impression that Snape was HIS double agent: Playing the part of being faithful to Dumbledore for HIM. In fact being halfway decent to those children would have HELPED his cover story.

He bullied those children because he was bitter, and angry, and bullying unpopular kids made him feel better about himself. It gave him a power trip. That's what it was about, nothing more.

 

[Specter Flux]

[Ren The Ryoko]

Specter Flux

Eh, just because someone does inexcusable things doesn't necessarily mean they're irredeemable, or that they didn't have extremely good reasons.

A lot of things a lot of people in HP did were inexcusable. A lot of them Harry himself did.

In all honesty, I think constantly leading innocent friends into danger because you feel the need to flaunt authority is perhaps even a bit more inexcusable than making fun of people in order to keep a carefully designed cover story which is more or less necessary to saving the world.

Not that I'm saying Snape wasn't a jerkass.

Because he certainly was.

Snape did not publicly humiliate Hermione and Neville in his class for a cover story.
That doesn't even make sense.
Voldemort was under the impression that Snape was HIS double agent: Playing the part of being faithful to Dumbledore for HIM. In fact being halfway decent to those children would have HELPED his cover story.

He bullied those children because he was bitter, and angry, and bullying unpopular kids made him feel better about himself. It gave him a power trip. That's what it was about, nothing more.

I don't think you understand what kind of game Snape was playing. This is nothing as simple as being only a double agent.

Voldemort didn't think Snape was pretending to be on Dumbledore's side, Voldemort thought that Snape was pretending to be on Dumbledore's side pretending to be on Voldemort's side. Voldemort thought Dumbledore only believed Snape was good, but pretending to be on Voldemort's side. Being all sweetness and light would have shattered that idea, since, well, it doesn't really look like you're "pretending" to be a Death Eater very well if you're hugging mudbloods all day long. Which would mean that in order to be accepting of this behavior, Dumbledore would have had to know something wasn't quite right with Snape - who is [from Voldemort's perspective of Dumbledore's perspective] supposed to be courting Voldemort, not him. And Dumbledore's not a moron. And Voldemort knows this.

So if Snape suddenly adopts a "good" stance openly, Voldemort's going to wonder just when exactly Dumbledore got in on the plan. And sure, Snape could say that actually, he told Dumbledore "Voldemort wants me to get friendly with the Order, but really, I'm still on your side pretending to be on his side pretending to be on your side," though of course he was still on the Dark Lord's side pretending to be on Dumbledore's side pretending to be on the Dark Lord's side pretending to be on Dumbledore's side, thereby adding several more needless layers of complexity to the game, and bumping the odds of failure up exponentially.

All in order to be polite to two people who are in turn endlessly butting in where they're not wanted, and constantly generating hazardous waste in Snape's class. Worth it? No.

I would also like to point out Dumbledore was all good with the plan for Snape to be a jerk [it might very well have been his idea], which implies it was not quite as irrelevant as you may think.  

[[Ren The Ryoko]]

Specter Flux

[Ren The Ryoko]

Specter Flux

Eh, just because someone does inexcusable things doesn't necessarily mean they're irredeemable, or that they didn't have extremely good reasons.

A lot of things a lot of people in HP did were inexcusable. A lot of them Harry himself did.

In all honesty, I think constantly leading innocent friends into danger because you feel the need to flaunt authority is perhaps even a bit more inexcusable than making fun of people in order to keep a carefully designed cover story which is more or less necessary to saving the world.

Not that I'm saying Snape wasn't a jerkass.

Because he certainly was.

Snape did not publicly humiliate Hermione and Neville in his class for a cover story.
That doesn't even make sense.
Voldemort was under the impression that Snape was HIS double agent: Playing the part of being faithful to Dumbledore for HIM. In fact being halfway decent to those children would have HELPED his cover story.

He bullied those children because he was bitter, and angry, and bullying unpopular kids made him feel better about himself. It gave him a power trip. That's what it was about, nothing more.

I don't think you understand what kind of game Snape was playing. This is nothing as simple as being only a double agent.

Voldemort didn't think Snape was pretending to be on Dumbledore's side, Voldemort thought that Snape was pretending to be on Dumbledore's side pretending to be on Voldemort's side. Voldemort thought Dumbledore only believed Snape was good, but pretending to be on Voldemort's side. Being all sweetness and light would have shattered that idea, since, well, it doesn't really look like you're "pretending" to be a Death Eater very well if you're hugging mudbloods all day long. Which would mean that in order to be accepting of this behavior, Dumbledore would have had to know something wasn't quite right with Snape - who is [from Voldemort's perspective of Dumbledore's perspective] supposed to be courting Voldemort, not him. And Dumbledore's not a moron. And Voldemort knows this.

So if Snape suddenly adopts a "good" stance openly, Voldemort's going to wonder just when exactly Dumbledore got in on the plan. And sure, Snape could say that actually, he told Dumbledore "Voldemort wants me to get friendly with the Order, but really, I'm still on your side pretending to be on his side pretending to be on your side," though of course he was still on the Dark Lord's side pretending to be on Dumbledore's side pretending to be on the Dark Lord's side pretending to be on Dumbledore's side, thereby adding several more needless layers of complexity to the game, and bumping the odds of failure up exponentially.

All in order to be polite to two people who are in turn endlessly butting in where they're not wanted, and constantly generating hazardous waste in Snape's class. Worth it? No.

I would also like to point out Dumbledore was all good with the plan for Snape to be a jerk [it might very well have been his idea], which implies it was not quite as irrelevant as you may think.

No.
Look, Voldemort thinks that Snape is pretending to be on Dumbledore's side.
Dumbledore KNOWS Snape is pretending to be on Voldemort's side.

Acting like a reasonable adult to children in his charge would not have complicated that plan at all.
Not publicly tormenting, belittling, and bullying Neville and Hermione would not have weakened wither of his double agent roles.
I don't even see how acting like a horrible bully to young 11 year old children would make Voldemort trust him MORE, since Voldemort thinks Snape is TRYING to get Dumbledore to trust him in the first place.

Snape's actions towards those children is not influenced by his role as a double agent.
His actions towards those children stem from his own personal problems.

 

[Cake Baby]

Specter Flux

[Ren The Ryoko]

Specter Flux

Eh, just because someone does inexcusable things doesn't necessarily mean they're irredeemable, or that they didn't have extremely good reasons.

A lot of things a lot of people in HP did were inexcusable. A lot of them Harry himself did.

In all honesty, I think constantly leading innocent friends into danger because you feel the need to flaunt authority is perhaps even a bit more inexcusable than making fun of people in order to keep a carefully designed cover story which is more or less necessary to saving the world.

Not that I'm saying Snape wasn't a jerkass.

Because he certainly was.

Snape did not publicly humiliate Hermione and Neville in his class for a cover story.
That doesn't even make sense.
Voldemort was under the impression that Snape was HIS double agent: Playing the part of being faithful to Dumbledore for HIM. In fact being halfway decent to those children would have HELPED his cover story.

He bullied those children because he was bitter, and angry, and bullying unpopular kids made him feel better about himself. It gave him a power trip. That's what it was about, nothing more.

I don't think you understand what kind of game Snape was playing. This is nothing as simple as being only a double agent.

Voldemort didn't think Snape was pretending to be on Dumbledore's side, Voldemort thought that Snape was pretending to be on Dumbledore's side pretending to be on Voldemort's side. Voldemort thought Dumbledore only believed Snape was good, but pretending to be on Voldemort's side. Being all sweetness and light would have shattered that idea, since, well, it doesn't really look like you're "pretending" to be a Death Eater very well if you're hugging mudbloods all day long. Which would mean that in order to be accepting of this behavior, Dumbledore would have had to know something wasn't quite right with Snape - who is [from Voldemort's perspective of Dumbledore's perspective] supposed to be courting Voldemort, not him. And Dumbledore's not a moron. And Voldemort knows this.

So if Snape suddenly adopts a "good" stance openly, Voldemort's going to wonder just when exactly Dumbledore got in on the plan. And sure, Snape could say that actually, he told Dumbledore "Voldemort wants me to get friendly with the Order, but really, I'm still on your side pretending to be on his side pretending to be on your side," though of course he was still on the Dark Lord's side pretending to be on Dumbledore's side pretending to be on the Dark Lord's side pretending to be on Dumbledore's side, thereby adding several more needless layers of complexity to the game, and bumping the odds of failure up exponentially.

All in order to be polite to two people who are in turn endlessly butting in where they're not wanted, and constantly generating hazardous waste in Snape's class. Worth it? No.

I would also like to point out Dumbledore was all good with the plan for Snape to be a jerk [it might very well have been his idea], which implies it was not quite as irrelevant as you may think.

Thank you! Couldn't have said it any better! You make some very good points and I agree with just about all of them.

This is all much more complicated than whether or not Snape was in the right or wrong in regards to his treatment of his students. Was he horrible to treat them as he did? Definitely. Was it necessary? For sure.

It is exhausting to try to have a discussion with someone who is adamant that their opinion is the the only truth. Isn't it possible that we are all in the right? Severus Snape is not a flat character. In fact, he is probably the most complex character in the series. There are so many facets to him that it is a very real possibility that none of us are seeing him in his entirety.  

[Specter Flux]

[Ren The Ryoko]

No.
Look, Voldemort thinks that Snape is pretending to be on Dumbledore's side.

No.

Voldemort thinks that Snape is pretending to be on Dumbledore's side pretending to be on Voldemort's side.

There is an absolutely enormous difference.  

[[Ren The Ryoko]]

Specter Flux

[Ren The Ryoko]

No.
Look, Voldemort thinks that Snape is pretending to be on Dumbledore's side.

No.

Voldemort thinks that Snape is pretending to be on Dumbledore's side pretending to be on Voldemort's side.

There is an absolutely enormous difference.

And that still doesn't have any affect on the main argument.
Snape being mean to those kids doesn't help that cover story.