I hate to ask,

[loonaboots]

but can you guys sign this petition?
there's more information about it in this post and this post.

it's incredibly important to me, and i would love it if it got enough signatures.

thank you!  

[Saint Sims]

Signed c:

 

[loonaboots]

Der Fluch des Pharao

Signed c:

/tackle hugs

thank you so so SO much!!  

[Saint Sims]

loonaboots

Welcome welcome!

It's a good cause c:

 

[loonaboots]

Der Fluch des Pharao

loonaboots

Welcome welcome!

It's a good cause c:

it is, isn't it? ^^  

[AmeliaParadox]

I really don't understand usa, supposed to be one of the most wealthy countries in the world, and it doesn't even have proper health care like every other 1st world nation does. crying  

[Saint Sims]

AmeliaParadox

It really boils down to the general populations concept of taxation and to whom the money actually belongs to.

Our system has us trained to believe that the money we earn is strictly ours and therefore belongs in our hands rather than being put more effective and efficiently into something such as healthcare.

America is rather self-centered in this sense.

 

[Purple Robot Queen]

Der Fluch des Pharao

AmeliaParadox

It really boils down to the general populations concept of taxation and to whom the money actually belongs to.

Our system has us trained to believe that the money we earn is strictly ours and therefore belongs in our hands rather than being put more effective and efficiently into something such as healthcare.

America is rather self-centered in this sense.

It could be seen that way, or it could simply been seen as one of two opposing definitions of fairness.

Definition 1: Everybody gets the same thing, that's fair, right?

Definition 2: Everybody gets what they earn, that's fair, right?

The first definition stresses an unconditional equality of resource distribution. It's good for those with disabilities and other disadvantages, because it takes from the wealthy and privileged to care of those people who are not able to properly care for themselves. It's bad for innovators and hard workers, because it takes the fruit of their labor away from them and gives it to people who won't make an effort.

The second definition stresses creative thinking and pulling your own weight. It's good for innovators and hard workers, because it doesn't allow lazy people to take from others without ever trying to help themselves or anybody else. It's bad for those with disabilities and other disadvantages, because it makes it difficult for them to get what they need while rich people sit around with excessive amounts of wealth.

Both definitions contain valid considerations, and both definitions contain flaws. Sadly, whatever system of fairness a society chooses to operate on will be good for some people and bad for other people. The fact that America operates on Definition 2 while most European countries operate on Definition 1 is not an indication of any immorality or selfishness in either case. It is simply a reflection of the fact that those societies have contending, though equally justified, perspectives on a difficult and essentially unsolvable ethical issue.

There is also the very serious question of whether government spending is ever, as you put it, "efficient", but that's a whole other can of worms.

With all that said, I'm not attacking you. I agree that this is a worthy cause that deserves support. I just posted this because I wanted to point out that the ethics surrounding questions of wealth distribution are not necessarily as black-and-white as you appear to believe.

P.S. I signed it.  

[Saint Sims]

Purple Robot King

Ethics is a very sticky subject, naturally, because it's tailored to each individual person and their beliefs.

Fairness is something I don't quite hold in consideration of anything because if all things were fair then millions would suffer.

And I see entirely where you're going, and understanding fully what you mean.

I do tend to see things in black and white, or at least attempt to separate what is and what isn't before diving into the gross area of grey.

Ultimately what I meant before in my original post was simply that as per example of the majority of countries with free healthcare there is a general consensus of efficiency in that singular area. Spending of a government overall is an entirely different closet of horrors however it can be seen true in form that governments and societies with free healthcare tend to be more effective societies.

Of course, the entire subject is subjective and has been debated for years in America. You can see where I am inclined on the whole issue however I do recognize both arguments are valid and well thought over.

You cannot, however, argue that the American concept of taxation is well, for a lack of a better term, effed. We have a very possessive society and for the reason that I do quite adore the conundrum that is America I'm very hypercritical of our country.

 

[Purple Robot Queen]

Der Fluch des Pharao

So we agree: it's all a mess, but we do the best we can.  

[Saint Sims]

Purple Robot King

Precisely c:

 

[AmeliaParadox]

heres how we do it, everyone has a right to medical care, but there are waiting lists for non urgent things, if you make over 70k a year or 140k as a couple you have to get private health cover or pay a fee.

if you don't have work, a single person without kids is entitled to 550 a fourtnight (thats not much) its enough to JUST get them by, but its really not a great life. I think people would rather people off the streets and getting a little money than not getting anything (crime would be much higher). so you do get rewarded for working hard here, but there is also a safety net. 3nodding  

[boopster91]

Quote:

wow i'm not even american. In fact i'm canadian and taking a health care course to work with children and teens with physical and mental illness and this really bugs me to no end. It's not fair this needs to stop just because they are special needs or gifted for that matter doesn't mean they don't have a life or choice like everyone else. Rrrrrr i can't express this anymore without going crazy.

(( i would sign the petition but i don't know how))  

[loonaboots]

AmeliaParadox

I really don't understand usa, supposed to be one of the most wealthy countries in the world, and it doesn't even have proper health care like every other 1st world nation does. crying

actually, it's more of doctors not doing their jobs and albiesm.  

[loonaboots]

boopster91

Quote:

wow i'm not even american. In fact i'm canadian and taking a health care course to work with children and teens with physical and mental illness and this really bugs me to no end. It's not fair this needs to stop just because they are special needs or gifted for that matter doesn't mean they don't have a life or choice like everyone else. Rrrrrr i can't express this anymore without going crazy.

(( i would sign the petition but i don't know how))

you have to sign up for an account, then you hit the "i sign" button or whatever it says. emotion_yatta
there's also a verification code sent to your email which you need to use. they'll also give you a password, which you can change once you log in.