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 Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:35 pm
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@Twirl:
Lawl, the best person to hear the story of World War Two from is Eddy Izzard. Click this for Youtube link and see what I mean!
He explains the best the theory of "stealing Stalingrad".
And he mentions the the deaths in Russia at the time.
Russians certainly crazy. Even if their doings ARE orders, they're crazy for doing them. Granted, I'm sure many ran and hid from the government. But the efforts of the brave out weight the cowardliness of the frightened. (I don't mean all of them, if any were cowardly, I'm sure each had legit reasons for not doing what they were told)
But it's as I said, they still did it. And damn, I can only say how much of a badass country they make up.
I'd hate to fight against a Russian, I'm sure they'll do all sorts of things to kill me, you know?
Hah. They're tough as balls.
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Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:36 pm
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[T w i r l], you seem to be a girl/boy(? XD) after my own heart~
Also speaking of Napoleon, the whole retreat and burn thing was used heavily way back then. It worked then, it worked again. Also the war with Japan before WWI also proves the expendable way that soldiers were treated, as casualties were so high for both sides, yet Japan was nearly ruined while Russia was barely scratched (now the other things they had going on at the time, well, led to the fall of the Tsars of course). I think that some of Russia's power comes simply from having so many people either willing, or forced to fight for their country.
I think that this is what would give Ivan as a character his "For the greater good" outlook. He expects high casualties so he goes into things headfirst without thinking of loss. Morality would be highest, yet his leaders seem to lead him to ruin again and again even though he goes all out. Kind of sad, actually...
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Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:48 pm
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But he knows that no one could ever really kill him. The only way too defeat Russia would if you took away his people. Making him alone.
Truly, if there is a secret to Russia's historical success, it's most defiantly it's people and it's land. No doubt in my mind it's not anything but that. Of course, this includes being clever, like Twirl said about the untrained used wooden guns. EDIT;;;; And the weather~ xD
It isn't a big secret at all and it doesn't take much studying to understand the key to the nation.
Even if Russia doesn't win, I don't believe there has been much of a loss. I'm not sure if Russia, as a country, is cable of losing (unless you get into situations like the Cold War) when it comes to tactics and battle field wars.
Although, I'm sure there have been quite a few, but for a long time now they haven't really lost like many other countrys have like Germany after WW2 where it was divided amongst the Allies, or had any other things happen to it like "The Spoils of War". At least I'm not aware of them.
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Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:56 pm
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RUSSOPHILIA I'd hate to fight against a Russian, I'm sure they'll do all sorts of things to kill me, you know? Hah. They're tough as balls.
They've always been tough though, the entire country has lasted through how much s**t in it's lifespan? 3+ name changes, x-number of revolutions, government after government after war after war.
And they came out with Spetznaz.
I cower. Ivan makes me cower; I have not yet see him have to take someone down, but if he ever does, I bet he uses Systema and I bet he will decimate.
And that video was amazing! Ahaha! Russian's are a very--can I use 'hardy'?-- people.
x_LoveObject_x [T w i r l], you seem to be a girl/boy(? XD) after my own heart~ Also speaking of Napoleon, the whole retreat and burn thing was used heavily way back then. It worked then, it worked again. Also the war with Japan before WWI also proves the expendable way that soldiers were treated, as casualties were so high for both sides, yet Japan was nearly ruined while Russia was barely scratched (now the other things they had going on at the time, well, led to the fall of the Tsars of course). I think that some of Russia's power comes simply from having so many people either willing, or forced to fight for their country. I think that this is what would give Ivan as a character his "For the greater good" outlook. He expects high casualties so he goes into things headfirst without thinking of loss. Morality would be highest, yet his leaders seem to lead him to ruin again and again even though he goes all out. Kind of sad, actually...
I have lady bits, thx. c:
You're right. Russia somehow has always pulled through muck and mire, and I think overall, has survived because of the resilience of it's people.
Even when Japan beat Russia in the Russia-Japanese wars, which totally dealt a blow to the European powers-- an Eastern nation beating a Western? It's no wonder the animosity must have grown between them all. And also, let's not forget the Winter War. I forget the actual number of causalities, but I do remember Finland decimated Russian forces.
Somehow Ivan's pulled through, the poor b*****d. ;n;
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Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:28 pm
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Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:14 pm
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Spetznaz & Systema ♥
There's so many different types of martial arts, from aggressive to defensive, but Systema seems... I mean, watching it... What can I say, it's amazing(ly hot)! So fluid and while not 'aggressive' it's more of a defense with deadly small attacks once you use the enemies moves against them (or dispose of their weapons). There's a place in Seattle (where I live) apparently, that teaches classes XD I'm afraid I'd die. But seeing huge Russian men doing it--can you imagine how fast Ivan is even for how big he is? ... And why does it not make me scared but just amazed and -cough- let's not go there~
Ah yes, the Winter War. In which the Allies temporarily kicked Russia out of being an Ally. XD They took very heavy losses from Finland at that time (go sniper Finland!). Yet they went on to be a winner in WWII even after taking more losses getting chased out of the Baltics by Germany.
RUSSOPHILIA
It isn't a big secret at all and it doesn't take much studying to understand the key to the nation.
I must respectfully disagree. With everything that Russia has been through, like Twirl said, the revolutions, invasions, not to mention persecution by their own people (the kolholz, gulags, Bloody Sunday, ect). But just as you mention being afraid of them well--try being the Baltics or Ukraine, or well any of the ex-Soviet bloc. They have days of mourning in the Baltics I know at least, where they honor the tens of thousands who were randomly sent to the gulags (Siberia) in order to establish swift control. Fear is also how they control things, and strong shows of force on smaller nations with little or no military.
What I'm saying is that just like politics, I believe that it takes a lot of study to properly asses a key to a nation. After all while they may try the same tactics twice, they are always adapting.
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Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:51 pm
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Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:15 pm
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x_LoveObject_x But seeing huge Russian men doing it--can you imagine how fast Ivan is even for how big he is?
Ivan did say he's not as big as his coat would let on. Imagine if that coat is like weighted, and the instant he drops it off... all there is is pure Russian force and speed coming at you. It's just... it's something to marvel at. c:
x_LoveObject_x What I'm saying is that just like politics, I believe that it takes a lot of study to properly asses a key to a nation. After all while they may try the same tactics twice, they are always adapting.
RUSSOPHILIA Well, then maybe I understand it better than other people can. For me it all makes a tone of sense, without much thought. Their thoughts and tactics are the same things I think up in the middle of class when I'm bored.
I think you're both correct.
It can take years and years of study to even get a glimpse at a nation's essence, especially the drastic differences of all the cultures within... all the differing distinctions in people, class, history... And even with years upon years of training and study, it may be virtually impossible to fully grasp the concept of any nation and it's peoples. Be it Russia, or France or South Korea or even Botswana. I suppose it's because there will always be a cultural barrier between people of one nation and people of another. Be it at a tiny, sliver of a moment.
On the other hand, who's to say someone can't feel-- in the pit of their being that they belong to another culture? Almost like a homesickness. Those, I think, are the kinds of people who can really reach down into the pit of a lifestyle not their own and fully integrate. Language, culture, family... they go completely native.
I also think, and I'll use myself as an example: As an American, I don't believe I can't "go native" in a place such as... I'll say Latvia. If I felt passionate enough towards that sort of life, I'm sure there's some way the human mind and psyche can transition from that of "American" to that of "Latvian". Why do you think we "gain" accents when we travel abroad, or even within our own boarders? I live in upstate New York, and when I visited family in Tennessee, within a few days I'd adjusted to the tonal pitches as best I could.
I think it might be a defense mechanism of course-- the faster you adjust your voice, the quicker you're accepted. I sure wouldn't want to sound like someone from upstate if I was living down in Brooklyn! (And don't get me wrong, I adore the city.)
So, Love, I think in a way you're correct: taking into account any nation's history and culture is far too much to understand and comprehend in one sitting. Especially the overall of the one we're discussing here: Russia. The entire country had been idolized, vilified, beaten down and offered a hand all in one go over the centuries. We still don't know the extent of the knowledge within, nor the people-- because we all know history is written by the victors. It's hard to understand how Ivan and his people would be on one hand.
But on the other, I think Russo over here is correct too. With enough passion and interest in a country and their means, one can begin to piece together just about anything. Attention will be paid to the minute details and someone can cultivate their knowledge. That's how we're taught these days: focus and specialize. Who's to say someone can't understand the key if they put enough of themselves out to the principle... and expect the respect and partnership of the principle in return? Even without a lot of thought, I think Russo could have an understanding with the culture-- without much study at all, just because that's where the "heart beats true".
:c Or maybe I misunderstood everything.
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Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 5:43 pm
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Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:38 pm
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 1:40 am
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What I was protesting was the saying that she understood the "key" to a nation. It's impossible, since a key is not military tactics or anything like that. In the end, it's people. Down to the last person, it's impossible to be able to say how someone can react.
As for feeling like you belong to another culture, I understand that completely. I could even defend a certain move of a few nations based on what they were feeling at the time. I get so patriotic for other nations than my own that you would think I'm from them when I speak of them. I have several friends like this as well. While you can understand the people yes, I don't think that's the whole "key". I doubt that the Russian people knew where Communism was going to lead them, after all. They wanted change, money, something better than the careless Tsar led them into. "It doesn't take much studying" is also untrue, because you'd not only have to study politics and war, but the culture and beliefs that people had at the time. In studying, I find all sorts of tidbits of information that I never knew before.
Even when it's simple to say "Why didn't country a just surrender this to country b? It would have saved bloodshed, ect." Nationality is a beautiful thing. Russians have a lot of it, but so does everyone else. Ahh... I guess I was confused to what "key" meant. Because, I believe there is more than one? Right now I know equal parts Russian and Lithuanian (+ some other Baltic history), and am learning German (also taking the language) so... Ugh, I really am a history-nerd.
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Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:09 pm
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Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:12 pm
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Oh, Love, I'm defiantly a "he".
As for me though, I haven't really ever studied. I can just feel what they were thinking. When I read, I do read thoroughly, not carelessly. Admitably so, I have not read all there is to know, and to be frank, I don't think it's possible.
But like Twirl mentioned, I have a lot of heart for the countries I put effort into reading about. And I can easily debate them. I can play for both sides, and yet, it's still difficult to go on the apposing side, because of my love for a particular country.
The way I used key was for a very general way. Of COURSE there are other reasons why this and that happened, of COURSE. I'm not retarded.
(And I'm not saying that you were calling me that either~ heart )
(but if you are... >___> )
Anyway, all in all, Russia is just an amazing country that I admire and love with all my heart. I could easily see my self living there, if I had the money.
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