Mantis Update *** Help sexing? 3rd page***

[imderanged]

I'm down to THREE now sad I feel badly that I didn't pay more attention when I read that this was NOT a "communal" species. I knew they were getting too big to have more than one kept in the same enclosure, but I was having trouble getting anyone to help me gather the supplies to make more cups up. When I asked it was always "later". Well now at least they all have their own containers. The Giant one is in the terrarium, the Green one has his own cup and there's a brown one about the size of the green one in the other cup. These bugs sure have strong appetites... Even though he got a whole cricket yesterday and a Lacewing tonight he ate the mantis with the messed up leg right after he finished the lacewing! crying *Sigh* Well, now I'm thinking of making their cups up nicer now that they have each have their own. Right now there's just a stick in each 32 oz deli cup w a screen top. I did have a coco fiber substrate but I lost so many nymphs when my husband knocked over a cup and accidentally buried them in the substrate that I took it all out.... but now I'm thinking it was a mistake and I should put some back to help keep up the humidity. How do you furnish your containers, Krissim?  

[Krissim Klaw]

Yep, you can not trust this species together. Their stomachs lead to bottomless pits, and they are more than willing to chow down on a sibling, especially if they shed first and gain more size.

As for furnishing cages, I am going to be honest and admit with the Chinese mantises I put nothing in their cages as nymphs. I use the all net cages, and all of my Chinese snub sticks and other cage decorations to hang on the netting. The only way I can get them on the other cage stuff is when I put them in the cage and then they craw right off and back to the walls. In my larger set ups I use when they reach adulthood I will have sticks and fake leaves for them, but when it comes to Chinese mantises I know that most decorations are for me, not for them.

Since you are using cups and glass terrariums though I'm not sure if they will be more open to sticks when it comes to having something easy to cling to. As for substrate, lawls I like to keep it simple and just use a paper towel on the bottom to hold moisture. The plus side is when they poop and get prey item leftovers on the bottom it makes clean up a breeze since you can just toss the paper towel and add a new one. If you want to get something prettier that has a more natural feel, Sphagnum moss is a favorite for many in the hobby.  

[imderanged]

The mantises in the cup are almost always on the screen hanging upside down. The large one in the terrarium sometimes walks around on the bark background but spends the majority of the time on the top screen too. I have the large one out again hand feeding him. II tried a cricket which he has taken before but he didn't want it, so I tried cutting up a super worm and once he got a taste he took it right away. All my pets seem to all of a sudden decided crickets are yucky and the all want worms LOL. So, Im just curious about handling & hand feeding...how "tame" do these guys actually get? will they eventually get used to be handled & fed? can they get too used to it? will he stop hunting If I keep hand feeding him?  

[Krissim Klaw]

There prey drive and stimulation is far to ingrained for them to stop. Now some species are more picky about what types of food they prefer. Some of the more dainty species really love their flies. All mantises go pretty crazy for any flying insects but some are more intimidated by crickets than others.

That being said, the Chinese mantises are not such a species. The only time you will see finicky behavior is if the food is too large, the mantis is full (pretty much only occurs with adult males), they are getting ready to shed, or lay an ootheca. Otherwise they are going to be happy hungry eaters. Hand feeding, will not take out the drive. I had my girl with the deformed mouth who was almost exclusively hand fed and on the occasion she would see prey items she would still go bonkers with excitement.

I do think they get somewhat tame and relaxed about handling although I find them pretty zen and docile to begin with. Before you know it your mantis will be doing this when you make baby kisses to them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLYtdVuHM6c&

Please don't however freak out like that lady did. The mantis only wanted to say hi. rofl  

[imderanged]

Oh no, I wouldn't freak like that! a couple times mine have jumped from my hand onto my shoulder or something and I stay perfectly still until I locate them and scoop them up, I'm afraid I'll hurt them! Mine are pretty chill once I have them on my hand, it's just sometimes a little hard to get them out in the first place, especially the one in the terrarium, since he's usually upside down on the top but it opens from the side. But it's not a huge problem, I was just curious smile They are easy to handle, and it's so cute how they reach out with their claws to grab my finger and climb up 4laugh  

[imderanged]

I have a Question Krissim! Is it normal for my mantises abdomen to get quite dark after a big meal?  

[Krissim Klaw]

imderanged

I have a Question Krissim! Is it normal for my mantises abdomen to get quite dark after a big meal?

I'm not sure if I've ever noticed their abdomen darkening after a big meal. Usually I just notice mine getting fat.  

[imderanged]

I'm going to try and get a pic...
***EDIT*** LOL false alarm. I couldn't get the shot since he/she was sitting right under the light...when I picked him/her up and moved him/her away from the light, the darkness was gone, it was just because of how the light was shining.

PS... there will still be more pics up as soon as I upload smile

one more question, is it possible to over feed?  

[Krissim Klaw]

Hahaha, silly mantis sitting under uneven light. wink

As for overfeeding, that is debatable. I've heard some rumors of mantises eating so much they burst, but I have never seen any solid proof. They seem pretty decent of dropping leftovers if they have truly eaten too much. I think it is far more likely these cases involve mantises that suffered falls while in the cage and because they were carrying so much weight, their abdomens erupted on impact. I heard a case a few weeks back where someone was reaching in their tank for their fat female mantis jumped from the top of its tank to the floor below and burst open. I've seen a couple other stories of members who had females die from falling/jumping and their heavy abdomen splitting.

Meanwhile, I have had several females who have fallen over six feet without so much as a bent antennae. I think some of why mine have no problems is I feed modestly compared to a lot of owners. This is also a place to give a friendly reminder of being careful about handling your older mantises while over hard surfaces like tile.

I usually feed every other day, and I feed smaller prey items than they could easily eat. The girls, especially as they age have a hard time lugging their heavy abdomens around and I found keeping them slimmer helps a lot.

I guess my remark on feeding would be to use your better judgement. If they look so fat after a meal they look like they might bust, then don't be afraid to fast them for a couple days before the next feeding. Mantises can easily go over a week without food.



I can't wait to see those pictures of your crew!  

[imderanged]

This is my terrarium... the camera really picked up my smudgy fingerprints, it doesn't look that bad IRL.


A size reference pic of my big boy/girl (can you tell the sex?)


Same mantis having a some snacks:

Lacewing


Waxworm (on my hand)
 

[Krissim Klaw]

So cute and nice terrarium.

It is kind of hard for me to sex since the abdomen area isn't in complete focus but that looks like it is probably a girl to me. There are two ways you can tell. One way is females have six segments on their abdomen, while males have eight. The other thing you can look at is the tip of your mantises wiggly butt. If it ends in a point and has an ovipositor, it is a girl. Males will have a more rounded tip with no ovipositor.  

[imderanged]

Actually I count 8 segments! I'm kinda surprised, with how much bigger she is that the others I thought he was probably female.

Do you know of a place i could see pictures of the male & females behinds to compare? I'm not sure what the ovipositor on the mantis should look like redface  

[Krissim Klaw]

I'll have to look around to see if I can find any pictures. I did a quick search but couldn't find any. I think there might be some in a sticky in the Mantis Forum but I am not sure. Maybe I should try to take a butt picture of one of my girls to show of the ovipositor.

As for the segments, I find it really hard to count on the young nymphs for that species. They all look like 8 segments to me when they are younger but as they age the females last three segments will sort of fade and merge. The best place to count is on the underside but naturally that is an even bigger pain to try and do on wiggly nymphs. Of course, I am admittedly terrible at guessing on nymphs. I mean I currently have two girl mantises named Tinkerbell and Merlin (boy wizard she was not.)  

[Krissim Klaw]

Awesome sauce, Rick does indeed have a pinned topic in the Mantid Forum with some great pictures and info on sexing. You will need to be signed in to see it, but I saw you had an account started over there so that shouldn't be a problem. Quick link---> http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=7110  

[imderanged]

Thanks smile I kinda think I'm going to have to wait until they shed again, it's really hard for me to tell for sure.