Welcome to Gaia! ::

Freedom OF religion does not mean freedom FROM religion. Separation of church and state means that the state is not controlled by the church, as it was in England centuries ago. People were executed for being either Protestant or Catholic, depending on which church was in power at the time. There are no laws in the United States establishing a national religion or making certain religious practices (as long as they do not violate basic human rights) illegal. That is what the first amendment was put in place for.

I always wonder, is it really that offensive to have the word "God" on the dollar bill? Does it really bother you that much that you have to say "Under God" during the pledge? (which, by the way, you can never be "forced" to say, despite what many schools in the South will try to enforce) I just really, honestly, don't see why it's so offensive to see examples of Christianity if you are not Christian. I don't find images of Vishnu offensive. I actually really like seeing Hanukkah decorations out this time of year. I think they're pretty. I don't mind my friends who are atheist talking about it around me. A lot of times I'll laugh at their jokes, even though I am a very devout Christian.
Comments like these really make me wonder where people get off calling "Christians" the close minded ones. (oh, that one's gonna start a fight I'll bet. I'm not riled up, by the way, I honestly don't understand.)

As for things like members of the government being Christian, or starting senate meetings with prayer, the fact is, the majority of this country is Christian. Maybe not devout church-goers, but at least Christmas-and-Easter types. By electing a person with the same belief systems as you, you're ensuring that they are going to hold to the same basic moral principles that you consider important, as it is a part of your faith. Can people be ethical without religion? OF COURSE! A lot of people are. Most of my friends are. But when you're electing a leader, you want to make sure it's not someone who will pass a law that will go against your beliefs.
Starting senate meetings with prayer makes sense since most senators are at least mildly religious. If you are religious, than before you begin anything important, it's customary to ask God for guidance. If you're not religious? Think of it as a few minutes to collect your thoughts. If you don't believe in a Deity, then it shouldn't bother you to ignore someone talking to themselves for a few minutes.

I'm sorry to disagree with you all, but we do have religious freedom in this country. You have the right to worship or not worship anything that you wish. Including the Flying Spaghetti Monster. But I have just as much freedom to practice my religion where or how I wish (as long as it does not impede on anyone else's basic human rights) just as much right as you have to practice yours, or to not practice anything at all.




Oh, and by the way, I am pro-gay rights and pro-choice, and I don't consider those to be political issues. The only reason the government is still spending so much attention on them is because everyone is still so ENFLAMED about them. If it gets attention, a politician is going to talk about it.

If you respond to me intelligently, I'd love to discuss. If you shout or call me names, I'll leave you to your devices. If you want to have your "I'm discriminated against because I'm not religious" club, you have every right to do so. Go nuts.

I’ll erase this feeling…
I still have a long life don’t I?
kono omoi wo keshiteshimau ni ha
mada jinsei nagai deshou?

The words under God were actually added to the Pledge in 1954 during the Red Commie Scare by a Christian organization. I suppose it was added to in order to differentiate between Americans and the so called Commies. Mind you the McCarthyism was going on when people were prosecuted for being suspected of being "Commies". That and the Cold War. The words In God We Trust was also added during this time. Though it has been said that it was added during the Civil War, it wasn't until 1954 did it actually become more offical.

However if you examine the Treaty of Tripoli of 1797, it states that America has never been nor will it ever be a Christian nation. To further this there is the establishment clause of the First Amendment which does state that the Government cannot establish laws based on religion nor can it establish a government religion. Therefore, America, is not a Christian nation, or a religious nation. It has been and will forever be a secular nation that allows people to worship their deities, and practice their rituals within the full letter of the law without persecution.

In all honesty the word God, and even the word Creator in the Declaration of Independence are generic terms used by many different religion. Both terms can refer to any God, like Thor, Odhinn, Freyr, Susan-O, Zeus, Apollo, etc. And any other Creator like Izanagi, Izanami, Chaos, etc. It does not have to refer to the Abrahamic God YHVH.

I do not think that our senators should start their meetings with a prayer. In fact I think this ends up blurring the line between Church and State. Our senators are representatives of us. If someone isn't a Christian then I don't think it's proper to say "Our Father" before a meeting because it's misrepresenting the public. The same goes for the cheerleaders earlier this year who were reprimanded for holding up signs with Bible verses during a football game. Religion is a nice thing however it is more of a private matter and should be left out of government and school affairs.

I have a problem when people try to inject their religion in political affairs and even the private affairs in other people's rights. Religion, whether it be Christianity, Asatru, Wicca, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc, is not the shoe that fits all. They should not be injected in another's private matter nor be the deciding factors in laws. Yes some laws do stem from morals called mores however morals do not have to stem from religion. With matters like Gay Marriage and and Abortion it should be left up to the people who want those things to decide for themselves and with their respective parents behind closed doors. It should not be decided by outsiders. Period.

I do have many Christian friends, and yes it does say that prosteylization is okay, however it also illustrates that those who are Christian should use a little tact. I don't mind if people try to convert me, but please be kind and courteous to me and my beliefs and I will show the same to you.

@Aria: you're also forgetting that back in those days people were also slaughtered for being a Pagan and refusing to believe in YHVH.

I’m missing the feeling…
so this pain is also welcomed!
natsukashiku naru
konna itami mo kangeijan

I respectfully disagree with your first point. Our original laws were laid down based on religious FREEDOM. The first amendment to our constitution-- which went into effect almost immediately after the constituion was drafted-- grants us the freedom to worship without interference from the government. We have always had and still have that freedom.

Well freedom of religion goes hand in hand with freedom of speech and the basic human right of freedom of expression.

In some cases religion has 100% to do with people being against gay marriage. They see it as "marriage is between a man and a woman", when if you get married through some other means than a church, that renders that argument null and void--seeing as there was no religion involved.

But, people should always be allowed to believe what they believe, but I fear that there are people who diagree with that statement. It seems like it is part of human nature to want others to believe what we believe...which is why there has been so much religious persecution.

Hmm...I haven't made much of a point...

Bottom line, in these times separation of church and state are nessicary because people want to be politcally correct and seem to be ignorant to our nation's religious roots.

Ah yes. Religion is a very important issue in America, since it was a main factor in the early colonization of this country. Many laws do deal with religion in some way.

Well being "gay" is against God's law. If he wanted men to like other men and women to like other women, he would have made it that way.

You mean Homosexual. And please quote to me the verse that actually says that God says this is a no-no.

How ignorant can a person be...*sigh* seriously if you are debating state facts about the argument not only what you believe. The difference is that facts can be proven. You cannot prove that God even exists. So other than God I'm interested to know what makes it so wrong.