Stephenie Meyer???

[SugarRos]

Shadyness

SugarRos

You should really read the first two links I posted up. It's not the writing I dislike as much as the message.

I've read them, and I disagree with them. I honestly think people are making too much of a big deal about and reading too much into the messages the book it sending out.

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Also, the reason that people are criticizing the book with such a large following is because it has such a dangerous message. If she had written these books and no one read them would anyone protest it? Probably not, but that's because her message wouldn't be getting across. There are young girls reading these books under the impression that real love is this distorted abusive all-consuming thing. There are moms reading these books reinforcing these ideas in their daughters. My grandma is a huge fan of the series and the links that I posted were copied directly from an e-mail I sent her regarding it.

There are a million romance novels that hold the same type of messages Meyers book does. Outlander, for instance (which I read on the suggestion of someone who told me it was a great sci-fi), is about a woman who travels back into time in Ireland and meets an Irish warrior and they fall in love and blah-blah-blah, which is fine and all, but the man literally forcefully beats the woman, telling her it's her 'place', and has very forceful sex with her over and over. Almost to the point of rape.

This type of 'love' is riddled all over the place in romance books. And the heroin simply accepts it. So why is Meyers book so different in corrupting young girls? There are plenty of teens who read romance novels, and they're going to come up against that theme a lot. I just really don't get why Meyers is to blame when this stuff has been written for years and years.

And are you really saying that only books that become popular shouldn't have this type of message? That's absolutely ridiculous! You're giving her book too much credit. You assume that teenagers are going to read the book and instantly think that it's okay to have an abusive boyfriend, but it doesn't work that way. People who are in abusive relationships aren't in them because of some book they read when they were a teenager. They're in them because they have issues themselves. People didn't suddenly start dating abusive a**-holes once Twilight came out, people have been with abusive partners since the dawn of time.

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I don't think it's okay to say that this book is harmless. No book is harmless. In a hundred years no one will remember who Stephanie Meyer is, but there will still be young innocent girls being taken advantage of by this 'women are weak and need to be looked after at all times' mentality that Ms. Meyer and her religion tout.

So what you're saying is that a Meyer's book is going to stay with women generations down the line and we'll have many more women being controlled and abused by men because she wrote this book and it became popular? There's going to be no climb in abusive relationships one hundred years from now because Meyers decided one day to write a book, and insert her belief system into it.

The book, like video games and moves, are not at fault in the least bit. If a child does not understand that being in a relationship with some guy who beats her up or controls her isn't healthy or normal, that that fault lies with her upbringing or the person herself. Not some damn popular YA book.

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If you are an adult and you understand the difference between reality and fiction, then by all means, read whatever the hell you like.

So only adults can understand the difference between reality and fiction?

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But there are plenty of people out there that don't understand the difference; they can't draw the line that this is just a book and not how real relationships should ever, EVER work.

Alright, but if that's how we should look at it, we should nix Harry Potter, because it deals with dark magic and killing people, and that sends the wrong message. Any horror flicks/books too, because some people can't draw the line between what's real and what's not.

You can't simply have Meyer take the blame for something that's been going on for years. I'll tell you what. You find something that PROVES that women are being abused because of the book, I'll change my stance, but until then, no go.

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I also find it a bit sad that Ms. Meyer's mail is sorted by her brother (something I wasn't aware of before this thread); her particular religious beliefs hold that women should be subservient to men because they are innately lesser humans based on their gender. So it doesn't surprise me that she lets her brother run her life.

Alright, sorry, this one had me laughing. Her brother doesn't control her life, her brother was hired to take control of her website and sort through her fan mail. I'm sure that her bills and private mail are sent directly to her, not her brother.

All celebs have people who go through their mail and run their websites. Do you seriously think they do it themselves? They don't have the time, it would be impossible. I'm guessing you'd have no problem if it was her sister running her website and sorting her fan mail. lol.

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As an educated, independent, adult female, I have no desire to read these books or watch the movies, I would not want my little sister or daughter reading them either. I wouldn't forbid it obviously, because that would only breed curiosity, but I think we'd have to have a nice long heart to heart about fiction and reality.

That's fine, you don't have to read or watch the movies, that's your choice, although I don't see how you can comment on them if you haven't read them, it seems a little off to me. And maybe your daughter will feel the same way, and that's fine. But I'm sure most teens are aware that vampires don't exist and that Edward is not going to sweep them off their feet and carry them away (but why put a damper on their dreams? Let them dream, I say!).

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So, tl;dr: It's not the books I hate, it's the wide-spread acceptance of an idea that has made women inferior for millenia.

So why don't you spend your time actually doing something about it instead of s**t-talking a book that, really, is no cause of making women inferior?  

[Shadyness]

I didn't ever say that Stephanie Meyer was to blame for women being abused. I'm saying that apologists like you are what keep these ideas in the mainstream. If women were to take notice that these ideas are being perpetuated all around them and that it isn't a healthy way to view love and/or relationships then maybe they could face these problems. Instead, they turn the other cheek, say "Oh, it's only a book" or "There are plenty of other books with the same theme". While both are true, no other book with this theme has garnered the rabid fanbase of Twilight.

Also, to compared Harry Potter to this is ludicrous. There are themes of friendship, lover, good vs. evil, etc. Ms. Meyer is much more shallow and transparent in her depiction of "love". It is not just her books, but this prevalent idea that her books have helped to make even more mainstream than before. These ideals should not be encouraged by anyone, ever. Period.  

[SugarRos]

Shadyness

I didn't ever say that Stephanie Meyer was to blame for women being abused.

Wait, now I'm confused.... does this book contribute to women abuse and inferiority or not? If you're claiming the book does, you're claiming that SM is partially to blame for women being abused.

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I'm saying that apologists like you are what keep these ideas in the mainstream.

I don't keep anything in the mainstream. People like me, or people who think like I do, understand that this sort of writing has been going on for decades, but we have no say what it popular and what is not. These ideas didn't pop up from books first, it's been something that women have been fighting against for centuries, and women don't feel that they should be in abusive relationships because of books they read or movies they see. There's a deeper connection that needs to be sought out and dealt with, and it has nothing to do with a popular wave of books.

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If women were to take notice that these ideas are being perpetuated all around them and that it isn't a healthy way to view love and/or relationships then maybe they could face these problems.

It's not that women don't see that our culture has always had a 'woman are inferior' set of mind, because we, as a culture always have to some extent. But I think we write books BECAUSE of this, books aren't the reason we're like that. You can argue that young girls need to be taught that they are important and should be in healthy relationships, and I completely agree, 100%. But that responsibility falls on the parents, not on the authors of books or directors of movies.

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Instead, they turn the other cheek, say "Oh, it's only a book" or "There are plenty of other books with the same theme". While both are true, no other book with this theme has garnered the rabid fanbase of Twilight.

You act as if Meyers sat at home and planned for her book to be extremely popular so she could corrupt millions with her Mormon ideas. She just wrote a book that she enjoyed, there's nothing more to it. It's a Young Adult novel, so Young Adults are going to read, but there are millions of YA novels out there, and no one can say that they'll be popular or won't be.

Basically, you're saying that it's okay for books to have this sort of stuff in it unless it becomes popular, and only then is it a problem. But that's so hypocritical. If Meyers is not allowed to write about what she did, you can't just pull her book, because other books will be there to replace it. So you may as well pull all books with any sort of theme like hers.

Is this a situation where censoring books becomes okay?

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Also, to compared Harry Potter to this is ludicrous. There are themes of friendship, lover, good vs. evil, etc. Ms. Meyer is much more shallow and transparent in her depiction of "love". It is not just her books, but this prevalent idea that her books have helped to make even more mainstream than before. These ideals should not be encouraged by anyone, ever. Period.

Again, you're saying that only THIS book is bad because it's so popular. So let me ask, what happens when another book comes along to replace Twilight when we take it away? Someone somewhere is going to write about the same themes and it's going to be popular.

And I still don't have any proof that the book has caused young women to have any sort of 'I-should-be-in-an-abusive-relationship' ideals.  

[Articx-Frost]

As relevent as this argument is to the topic, it is sort of going over the top. Could we tone it down and not rip lumps off of each other?  

[SugarRos]

Yes, yes, I'm sorry. I admit I was in a foul mood earlier.  

[-S-Dancing_Star-S-]

I have nothing against her, I love the way she writes... that said, I do NOT like all this vampire stuff that keeps showing up because of it. When I walk into the bookstore -vampire books- When I walk into the library -vampire books- When I go to the store -vampire stuff- When I go to school -vampire books- It's driving me insane!!! Again, I have nothing against Stephanie, she is a brilliant writer, I would just like some warning next time...
Also, she wrote Breaking Dawn a little wierd, at first I was upset, but then it interested me, I wish she had written New Moon in sort of the same way...  

[Xiao Xianyu]

SugarRos

And I still don't have any proof that the book has caused young women to have any sort of 'I-should-be-in-an-abusive-relationship' ideals.

On that point, I disagree. I have heard young girls say they want to be in a relationship like the one in Twilight. Doesn't that mean that their ideal has become an abusive relationship?

You are very much correct, though, that such things were out (particularly in romance novels) long before Twilight. I remember being given a romance novel to read by a friend once. In it the main female character was raped by the main male character, but supposedly doesn't care because she loves him. I never finished the reading the book and told her in no uncertain terms the book was sick.

I am not a believer in laying the blame at the feet of video games, movies, and books. I remember saying to someone once that since "art imitates life", if any of these things hold things that are wrong, wasn't the wrongness there to begin with, and they are only portraying that?

That being said, no writer or artist can completely abstain from blame on the work they put out either. For that matter, no one can ever say that what they say and do is innocent of effect on others.

"You move just a finger, say the slightest word. Something's bound to linger. Be heard" - Sondheim.

Finally, I must comment on your statement that women in abusive relationship have issues themselves. There was a very long discussion held on abusive relationships on another writing board I frequent. Several of us provided links because the person who started the topic, who was planning to write about one, expressed a similar opinion.

I have had friends in abusive relationships. And let me tell you, anyone can fall into that trap. If you think it's merely woman with self esteem issues or who are meek and subservient, do yourself a favor and go read some of the websites about abuse. If only to protect yourself in the future. It's a trap anyone, man or woman, can fall into. And is a serious subject that should never be passed off as people "with issues".  

[All Purpose Muling Device]

I can't say I care anymore. I do think it's right to compare her to Rowling, however.

They both succeeded in the exact same fashion; i.e. they took sub-par ideas and sub-par writing and managed to make marketing beasts out of them by what could only be described as the largest strokes of luck in recent literary history.

Only difference is that I actually liked one of the Harry Potter books, and am okay on two more of them, whereas Twilight bored me to tears and I had to struggle to focus on the words, and I couldn't get through it all or any of its sequels.

I'm also a little pissed at whoever designed the cover of Breaking Dawn. They had a red piece and a queen. Why was the queen not red? That would have held actual meaning which actually would have suited the book to an extent, in a melodramatic, overblown sort of way (is there any other with this series?).

As far as perpetuating rape culture and heterosexist normativity goes, yes, I suppose it does do that. But so do a lot of other things that no one is bitching about. And any woman who "wants" to be in an abusive relationship because of this was already set toward it -- clearly, as it appealed to them. I didn't pick up my kinks from the books I've read that happened to have them; the books appealed to me more because they had my kinks.

Besides, they can't "get into" an abusive relationship. Their abuser will force the qualifier on them. This would happen with or without Twilight, and they won't like it when it's reality.  

[SugarRos]

Xiao Xianyu

SugarRos

And I still don't have any proof that the book has caused young women to have any sort of 'I-should-be-in-an-abusive-relationship' ideals.

On that point, I disagree. I have heard young girls say they want to be in a relationship like the one in Twilight. Doesn't that mean that their ideal has become an abusive relationship?

Young girls say things all the time though. Saying things isn't doing things. There is a big difference there. When I was a young girl I wanted to change my name to Ginger and have french fry wallpaper. I also wanted to be an Animorph and save the world from brain-sucking slug aliens.

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Finally, I must comment on your statement that women in abusive relationship have issues themselves. There was a very long discussion held on abusive relationships on another writing board I frequent. Several of us provided links because the person who started the topic, who was planning to write about one, expressed a similar opinion.

I have had friends in abusive relationships. And let me tell you, anyone can fall into that trap. If you think it's merely woman with self esteem issues or who are meek and subservient, do yourself a favor and go read some of the websites about abuse. If only to protect yourself in the future. It's a trap anyone, man or woman, can fall into. And is a serious subject that should never be passed off as people "with issues".

Alright, I'll give you that people fall into abusive relationships for many reasons. But I've done a bit of research myself, and there's a trend for women who not only get into abusive relationships, but who stay in them when they know they shouldn't. And I'm sorry if I said issues as if it were some kind of retardation, I didn't mean it in that way. The trends (or 'issues') these women have are usually low self-esteem and feeling the need to be taken care of. Some of them were abused themselves. There's a lot of negative factors that go into women falling and staying in abusive relationships. - Not one of them is Twilight.  

[Xiao Xianyu]

SugarRos

Young girls say things all the time though. Saying things isn't doing things. There is a big difference there. When I was a young girl I wanted to change my name to Ginger and have french fry wallpaper. I also wanted to be an Animorph and save the world from brain-sucking slug aliens.

"Young girl" being a relative term here. I am discussing 16-22 year olds. I do believe I mentioned I was no spring chick in my greeting to the club. So as that is the age group I am referring too, I am not referencing to the childish flights of fancy of a preteen or little girl.

SugarRos

Alright, I'll give you that people fall into abusive relationships for many reasons. But I've done a bit of research myself, and there's a trend for women who not only get into abusive relationships, but who stay in them when they know they shouldn't. And I'm sorry if I said issues as if it were some kind of retardation, I didn't mean it in that way. The trends (or 'issues') these women have are usually low self-esteem and feeling the need to be taken care of. Some of them were abused themselves. There's a lot of negative factors that go into women falling and staying in abusive relationships. - Not one of them is Twilight.

I appreciate you amending your statement into something that comes across less insulting. But you are still placing a simplistic view on something highly complicated. I'm sorry but there's no such "trend". It can often be the effect of the relationship, but the ways people enter one, and the reasons victims stay in one are far too varied to pass off in such a way. I'm not drawing upon research, or some magazine's statistics. I've read on the subject, yes. But that's because I have real life experience as the outside party trying to help someone in the situation. Experience is the harshest of teachers.

No, books and other forms of stories do not create the mindset. But they can perpetuate it. And back up the skewed view of abuse being normal. Much in the same way a friends might accidentally back up a victim's belief that the relationship they are in is not abusive, by telling them they are lucky to have the person they are in the relationship with. (As often an abuser can appear to be very caring and loving in public). If someone is questioning if what they are experiencing is wrong is given a book that is supposed to be about romance, and that book glorifies an abusive relationship, then the book has indeed caused harm.

And, no, I'm not saying Twilight is soley to blame. Or the first book to do this. (I mentioned the romance novel my friend gave me as my first experience with such books) But in this thread we were asked our view on it, and that's my view. It's a poorly written book that glorifies an abusive relationship, and is being falsely sold as a romance. And, disturbingly, a high number of people are buying into it.

I said in my first post, I don't blame books/movies/shows for mindsets. The mindsets exist. But that doesn't mean that we are unaffected by what we read, be it fact or fiction. Why do you supposed book burnings have been so often used by oppressive governments in history? Because they do hold messages. They do encourage thoughts. They do aid in perpetuating a mindset. Given all the effort writers over the centuries have taken to use books to do just that, I think it would be tragic if we were truly unaffected. We take a little bit away with us from everything we have ever read or seen.  

[All Purpose Muling Device]

I can't myself believe that Twilight honestly perpetuates delusions of normalcy in the abused. I don't actually believe that being told "you're lucky you're with them" perpetuates the delusion of normalcy.

Victims don't always believe that the abuse is normal. They are sometimes aware that something is wrong -- sometimes very wrong. Some may even be aware that it's at least "borderline" abusive, though I can't speak to that, myself. There are a lot of things that keep victims involved, and one of those is love for the abuser and the honest-to-god belief that things will get better, that they can get better, and that it's the victim's fault -- not the abuser's -- that things are the way they are. Twilight presents a positive that these people would not accept, which probably makes it a minority of people thinking "It's my fault this is how it is, but it worked in Twilight, so maybe it'll work out now."

And that honestly be less painful than the alternative "I have no idea what the ******** to do, but I love them and I'm afraid that things won't work out and it'll be all my fault."

"You're lucky to be with them" is something I don't see, personally, enforcing a delusion. I couldn't speak for the statistic mode, however.

And I would reiterate: one does not "get into" an abusive relationship. The abuser will force the qualifier on you. This would happen with or without Twilight, and if your fantasy involves it, I sincerely doubt you'll like it when it's reality.  

[SugarRos]

Xiao Xianyu

SugarRos

Young girls say things all the time though. Saying things isn't doing things. There is a big difference there. When I was a young girl I wanted to change my name to Ginger and have french fry wallpaper. I also wanted to be an Animorph and save the world from brain-sucking slug aliens.

"Young girl" being a relative term here. I am discussing 16-22 year olds. I do believe I mentioned I was no spring chick in my greeting to the club. So as that is the age group I am referring too, I am not referencing to the childish flights of fancy of a preteen or little girl.

Okay, my examples went too young. But still, young females, even those between 16 and 22, are still going to be wishing things that they will probably change their mind about in a year or two. The fact is, saying things still isn't doing things, I can say a lot of stuff, and I did say a lot of stuff when I was between the ages of 16 and 22, and most of the stuff I said was just me saying stuff, you know?

Not that I don't think that what girls that age say doesn't matter or that it's all a bunch of crap and they have nothing real to say, but it's still a really immature span of time. And unless that girl who said "I want to be in a relationship with someone like Edward Cullen" actually sought out and got into one, I'm pretty sure that if said girl didn't already have the tendencies that girls who stay in relationships like that do, she'd get the ******** out. Because it's true that without the fantasy and vampire aspect, it's abusive, and once this girl realized that, she'd probably leave. Fast.

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SugarRos

Alright, I'll give you that people fall into abusive relationships for many reasons. But I've done a bit of research myself, and there's a trend for women who not only get into abusive relationships, but who stay in them when they know they shouldn't. And I'm sorry if I said issues as if it were some kind of retardation, I didn't mean it in that way. The trends (or 'issues') these women have are usually low self-esteem and feeling the need to be taken care of. Some of them were abused themselves. There's a lot of negative factors that go into women falling and staying in abusive relationships. - Not one of them is Twilight.

I appreciate you amending your statement into something that comes across less insulting. But you are still placing a simplistic view on something highly complicated. I'm sorry but there's no such "trend". It can often be the effect of the relationship, but the ways people enter one, and the reasons victims stay in one are far too varied to pass off in such a way. I'm not drawing upon research, or some magazine's statistics. I've read on the subject, yes. But that's because I have real life experience as the outside party trying to help someone in the situation. Experience is the harshest of teachers.

...Are you saying that the studies are wrong and that girls who stay in abusive relationships don't have similar tendencies? That the science and reasoning behind it is wrong because you know someone who's in one? You're not the only one who knows people in abusive relationships, I actually have a very close friend who is in an abusive relationship. And she does show these tendencies.

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No, books and other forms of stories do not create the mindset. But they can perpetuate it. And back up the skewed view of abuse being normal. Much in the same way a friends might accidentally back up a victim's belief that the relationship they are in is not abusive, by telling them they are lucky to have the person they are in the relationship with. (As often an abuser can appear to be very caring and loving in public). If someone is questioning if what they are experiencing is wrong is given a book that is supposed to be about romance, and that book glorifies an abusive relationship, then the book has indeed caused harm.

Twilight isn't doing to perpetuate it enough to make a difference. Again, Twilight isn't going to nudge someone to a relationship like that.

I'm not saying that there aren't reasons other than low self-esteem and such that keep women in abusive relationships, all I'm saying is that Twilight isn't the cause. Without the fantasy, then yes, Twilight would be advocating abuse, but the simple fact that we're talking about vampires and werewolves here nix's the idea, really. I mean, if we're really talking abuse here, isn't it abusive to just hang around with vamps and weres to begin with?

And, if the age group that is so susceptible to being influenced enough to be or stay in a relationship is 16-22, then why aren't we claiming the Sookie Stackhouse series is doing the same damage? I mean, her vampire boyfriend, while they're locked inside the trunk of a car, actually rapes her (she's screaming at him to stop), and then almost kills her by draining out all her blood. He rapes her and almost kills her. And why does she decide to end their relationship? Because he went back to his old girlfriend.

Hmmmm.... Something's a little off here to me.

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And, no, I'm not saying Twilight is soley to blame. Or the first book to do this. (I mentioned the romance novel my friend gave me as my first experience with such books) But in this thread we were asked our view on it, and that's my view. It's a poorly written book that glorifies an abusive relationship, and is being falsely sold as a romance. And, disturbingly, a high number of people are buying into it.

See, here's the problem. Everyone is okay with OTHER books that have this same fantasy setting with abusive tones (although I stand firm that it's not abusive considering the circumstances) but because Twilight is popular with Tween/Teen/YA girls, it's suddenly condemned?

Also, wasn't too terribly written, imo. Got the point across clear and I've definitely read worse, lol.

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I said in my first post, I don't blame books/movies/shows for mindsets. The mindsets exist. But that doesn't mean that we are unaffected by what we read, be it fact or fiction. Why do you supposed book burnings have been so often used by oppressive governments in history? Because they do hold messages. They do encourage thoughts. They do aid in perpetuating a mindset. Given all the effort writers over the centuries have taken to use books to do just that, I think it would be tragic if we were truly unaffected. We take a little bit away with us from everything we have ever read or seen.

Although Stephanie was probably trying to get the point across not to sex it up until marriage, I don't think she set out to write a book about abusive relationships and that it's okay. In fact, the book would have been a complete drag had there not been any danger in it. Danger and impossible situations are entertaining, which is why we read books in the first place.

....Also, they used to burn 'witches', too. And I don't condone the burning of either, for the same reason. It's wrong.  

[SugarRos]

All Purpose Muling Device

I can't myself believe that Twilight honestly perpetuates delusions of normalcy in the abused. I don't actually believe that being told "you're lucky you're with them" perpetuates the delusion of normalcy.

Victims don't always believe that the abuse is normal. They are sometimes aware that something is wrong -- sometimes very wrong. Some may even be aware that it's at least "borderline" abusive, though I can't speak to that, myself. There are a lot of things that keep victims involved, and one of those is love for the abuser and the honest-to-god belief that things will get better, that they can get better, and that it's the victim's fault -- not the abuser's -- that things are the way they are. Twilight presents a positive that these people would not accept, which probably makes it a minority of people thinking "It's my fault this is how it is, but it worked in Twilight, so maybe it'll work out now."

And that honestly be less painful than the alternative "I have no idea what the ******** to do, but I love them and I'm afraid that things won't work out and it'll be all my fault."

"You're lucky to be with them" is something I don't see, personally, enforcing a delusion. I couldn't speak for the statistic mode, however.

And I would reiterate: one does not "get into" an abusive relationship. The abuser will force the qualifier on you. This would happen with or without Twilight, and if your fantasy involves it, I sincerely doubt you'll like it when it's reality.

Here, here.  

[SugarRos]

I also thought it would be fun to debate the opinion piece Shadyness put up a link to. smile

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Does your partner:
* Look at you or act in ways that scare you?
Check.

You mean with his scary vampire eyes? Because he's a vampire and he's strongly attracted to her blood but he's fighting with himself NOT to do what's in his very nature and drink her dry? Then yes, he's looking at her scary.

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* Control what you do, who you see or talk to or where you go?
"Stay away from the werewolves. I love you."

"Please stay away from the dangerous werewolves who get mad quicker than a lightswitch and could easily rip you apart? Oh, they're also my enemy, who would like nothing more than to see me dead. I love you, please stay away from them."

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* Make all of the decisions?
Check.

Hmmm, you mean Bella deciding herself to do whatever Edward tells her? Mmm, totally his fault.

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* Act like the abuse is no big deal, it’s your fault, or even deny doing it?
"If I wasn't so attracted to you, I wouldn't have to break up with you."

"If I wasn't so attracted to you, I probably would have killed you and drank your blood the moment I saw you, the desire was so great to do so, because I am a creature that drinks human blood. I'm breaking up with you because I've put you in a ton of danger and I'm not safe."

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* Threaten to commit suicide?
"I just can't live without you. In fact, I'll run to Italy and try suicide by vampire if anything happens to you."

"I thought you were dead, so I couldn't go on. I decided to have a romeo a juliet take on things, because I already thought you were dead Did I mention that I only tried to kill myself after I already thought you were dead?"

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* Threaten to kill you?
On their first date.

Right, when he was warning her that he's a dangerous vampire that could lose control and suck her dry of blood because it's in his nature to do so. Oh, wait, Bella didn't care? Even though Edward didn't lie, told her the truth and warned her?

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These are some more signs of an abusive relationship.
Has your partner...
* Tried to isolate you from family or friends.
Bella doesn't have time for anyone else!

Edward tries desperately to push her towards her friends! Bella is just crazy needy for some reason... Teenagers. rolleyes

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* Damaged property when angry (thrown objects, punched walls, kicked doors, etc.).
Check.

Never in her house or his house. In the woods? Check. To get out of a dangerous situation? Check.

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* Pushed, slapped, bitten, kicked or choked you.
Does tossing her through a glass table count?

Ohhh, you mean when he pushed her out of the way of a hungry vampire that was about to kill her and suck all her blood out in a gory fit of bloodlust and she fell into a glass table. You're right, he should have asked the vampire to kindly stop and step away.

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* Abandoned you in a dangerous or unfamiliar place.
"We're breaking up. And I'm leaving you in the forest."

"We're breaking up. And I'm leaving you in a forest right next to your house which you've been in a million times and know your way around."

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* Scared you by driving recklessly.
Check.

With awesome vamp skills that outbeat any professional racer! It's like a theme park ride, but you're probably safer, really.

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* Forced you to leave your home.
She had to run away with him to flee from the other vampires in the first movie, and she had to drop everything and run to Italy in the second.

Yes, because the bad vamps were going to kill her, and probably her family, so Bella came up with the idea to get away, which Edward argued against. Forced? By whom? Ohhh, by the bad vamps she's NOT in a relationship with.

And again, her choice to run off and tell her vamp boyfriend that she's not dead like he thinks she is because she chose to jump off a cliff and he though she'd killed herself. Not HER fault, though, totally Ed's fault. Yup.

Quote:

* Prevented you from calling police or seeking medical attention.
Check. Even in the hospital, nothing is a big deal.

Well, it's my word against hers, but really she never needs to go to the hospital because she's got the best vamp doctor around that won't charge her ridiculous hospital fees. And the one time she was in the hospital, Ed carried her there himself... And stayed... And showed very much concern over what had happened...

Quote:

* Views women as objects and believes in rigid gender roles.
Well, they are Mormon... (I know, I know, cheap shot.)

Yes, very cheap shot indeed. But don't mind the fact that Edward was born in a time where rigid gender roles were the norm. ...Not that he ever makes Bella follow those roles, although he struggles with it internally.

Quote:

* Accuses you of cheating or is often jealous of your outside relationships.
Check, wolf-boy.

Is her boyfriend jealous of the other guy who keeps coming around and tries to, in a very in-your-face manor, swoon your gf for himself? Yes, yes, he is. smile A lil' jealousy never hurts anyone.

The problem with the checklist above is that she's twisted everything and left a lot of stuff out to try and make it fit. If you've read the books you can debunk all of these almost instantly.  

[Mortok]

As much as I don't care about Twilight, I'm just going to say from what little I actually read of it the problem is not Edward's behaviour (although a lot of it is creepy) so much as Bella's instant and unwavering obsession with him from the word go. She actively pursues a relationship with him even when he appears early on to want nothing to do with her. Let's face it, the b***h just has a death wish.

Honestly, all I can say about the books is that they're just flat-out boring. The first half of Twilight is just a series of diary entries, but with none of the things that make diary-style stories interesting or fun to read. "I got up, I got dressed in an outfit which I will now waste several paragraphs describing to you. I went to school, spoke to some chicks and got hit on by a bunch of guys. I fell over a lot, I went home and cried about how in love I am with Edward even though we've never spoken." I gave up when they went to play baseball and, honestly, from what I've heard from Twilight fans and haters alike, it does not get any better from there.

EDIT: And I mean, really, think about it: there's a team of immortal, eternally youthful super-powered creatures who seem to have plenty of money at their disposal... and the best way they can think of to pass the time is to re-live highschool over and over? If I were a Cullen I would've killed myself long before Bella came into the picture.