gay marriage: for or against?

[caaaaaath]

ScarletXCrossXCrusader

darlindol17

May I ask exactly why you're against gay marriage? Is it because of religion or a legitimate reason?

I'm against "it" (the subject of same sex marriage/union, not the people involved in it) because it is against the natural law and against God, the Creator of all things.

While the Bible does address homosexuality, it does not explicitly mention gay marriage/same-sex marriage. It is clear, however, that the Bible condemns homosexuality as an immoral and unnatural sin. Leviticus 18:22 identifies homosexual sex as an abomination, a detestable sin. Romans 1:26-27 declares homosexual desires and actions to be shameful, unnatural, lustful, and indecent. First Corinthians 6:9 states that homosexuals are unrighteous and will not inherit the kingdom of God. Since both homosexual desires and actions are condemned in the Bible, it is clear that homosexuals “marrying” is not God’s will, and would be, in fact, sinful.

Whenever the Bible mentions marriage, it is between a male and a female. The first mention of marriage, Genesis 2:24, describes it as a man leaving his parents and being united to his wife. In passages that contain instructions regarding marriage, such as 1 Corinthians 7:2-16 and Ephesians 5:23-33, the Bible clearly identifies marriage as being between a man and a woman. Biblically speaking, marriage is the lifetime union of a man and a woman, primarily for the purpose of building a family and providing a stable environment for that family.

The Bible alone, however, does not have to be used to demonstrate this understanding of marriage. The biblical viewpoint of marriage has been the universal understanding of marriage in every human civilization in world history. History argues against gay marriage. Modern secular psychology recognizes that men and women are psychologically and emotionally designed to complement one another. In regard to the family, psychologists contend that a union between a man and woman in which both spouses serve as good gender role models is the best environment in which to raise well-adjusted children. Psychology argues against gay marriage. In nature/physicality, clearly, men and women were designed to “fit” together sexually. With the “natural” purpose of sexual intercourse being procreation, clearly only a sexual relationship between a man and a woman can fulfill this purpose. Nature argues against gay marriage.

According to the Bible, marriage is ordained by God to be between a man and a woman (Genesis 2:21-24; Matthew 19:4-6). Gay marriage/same-sex marriage is a perversion of the institution of marriage and an offense to the God who created marriage.

Also, God is a God of love (1 John 4:8 ) and a just God. He hates not the sinner but the sin. Don't confuse love with lust, affection, friendship, infatuation, etc. This is love: Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. (1 Cor. 13:4)

Oh I'm sorry I thought she asked for a legitimate reason...

You're saying that gay marriage is wrong because it's not approved in the Bible. Is fast food specifically approved in the Bible? I'm guessing not, but you probably seem no reason for it to be wrong.

So psychology is says it's wrong. I wonder where you got that from because my dad is a psychologist, and in all the psychology classes I've taken none of them even mention this. True, men and women have different makeups and they both bring something different to the table. But if marriage is meant to create children do you also believe in banning the marriage between and infertile couple, or an old couple? And what do you think about single parents raising beautiful little kids.

"This is love: Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. (1 Cor. 13:4)" Think about this for a minute and then think about your argument against gay marriage. If you're supposed to "love thy neighbor" doesn't this apply to you? Are you practicing all of this when it comes to your gay neighbors?

Your Bible argument is not valid. It will never be valid. Just like the argument for segregation, which coincidentally came from the Bible, will never be valid. If you're going to use this on your side you better be willing to argue for all the other things the Bible has argued for.

Finally, religion is definitely not even valid in the argument of gay marriage. No one is asking the church to recognize gay marriage. You can go ahead and keep your religion. I want the government to recognize my marriage. The federal government. I want the advantages that come with marriage, in every state not just the states that have voted on it. I could care less if individuals disagree with what I'm doing. It's the governments job to give me the rights granted to every other American citizen.

Oh, and by the way, I'm getting married next year in Iowa, one of the very few state allowing gay marriage, whether you, or you Bible, like it or not.  

[darlindol17]

ScarletXCrossXCrusader

So to make an unnecessarily long answer short, you're against it because of religion. Although I shall never understand the logic behind that (mostly because there is no logic behind using religion to bash something), as a human being you are as entitled to be against gay marriage as I am to be for it. Therefore I say good day to you and I have no wish to continue this because it will only turn into an unnecessary debate.  

[Scarleey]

darlindol17

Well you did ask for it in the first place and yes, we have different views in life. I just voiced/shared mine as did the others. Not a bit did I expect anyone to understand or agree what I just posted and definitely I'm not imposing my beliefs either.
Many things in life actually cannot be reasoned with logic or science.

Have a nice day too and to all.
Peace out! o u o  

[Scarleey]

caaaaaath

Is
fast food specifically approved in the Bible?

Fast food did not exist in the old times but the Bible tells us to be conscious of what we eat, of our health and to spend our money wisely on food.
Proverbs 23:19-21 “Be not among drunkards or among gluttonous eaters of meat, for the drunkard and the glutton will come to poverty, and slumber will clothe them with rags.”

Quote:

Do you also believe in banning the marriage between and infertile couple, or an old couple? And what do you think about single parents raising beautiful little kids.

No I don’t. I salute hard working single parents. I think they are brave and self-less.

Quote:

If you're supposed to "love thy neighbor" doesn't this apply to you? Are you practicing all of this when it comes to your gay neighbors?

I already said it in my previous post that Im not against the people involved in it. I know that people have different preferences/views in life and sexuality. I respect them no matter what it is. I even have few gay friends in school and we get along nicely. “Love thy neighbour” applies to all kinds of people, not just gay. The kind of love I mentioned was between couples. Love and lust are entirely different.

Quote:

Oh, and by the way, I'm getting married next year in Iowa, one of the very few state allowing gay marriage, whether you, or you Bible, like it or not.

Congratulations..in advance~  

[HimeFiveCents]

ScarletXCrossXCrusader

Since both homosexual desires and actions are condemned in the Bible, it is clear that homosexuals “marrying” is not God’s will, and would be, in fact, sinful.

And again I ask: how? How is it clear? Really point this out for me cus I've been having a hard time seeing what is so 'obvious' to the Christians. If God is Almighty, All-knowing, Infinite and Powerful beyond human fathoming... how can our measly little people-brains begin to comprehend anything S/He "does"? Bibles are written by humans. Translated by humans. And if there is one thing we are famous for its human error. And if there's another thing we're good at its not being able to admit this error... The only thing really clear upon reading these verses is that the Bible was written and translated by a bunch of homophobic men.

Quote:

Biblically speaking, marriage is the lifetime union of a man and a woman, primarily for the purpose of building a family and providing a stable environment for that family.

The Bible alone, however, does not have to be used to demonstrate this understanding of marriage. The biblical viewpoint of marriage has been the universal understanding of marriage in every human civilization in world history. History argues against gay marriage. Modern secular psychology recognizes that men and women are psychologically and emotionally designed to complement one another. In regard to the family, psychologists contend that a union between a man and woman in which both spouses serve as good gender role models is the best environment in which to raise well-adjusted children. Psychology argues against gay marriage. In nature/physicality, clearly, men and women were designed to “fit” together sexually. With the “natural” purpose of sexual intercourse being procreation, clearly only a sexual relationship between a man and a woman can fulfill this purpose. Nature argues against gay marriage.

According to the Bible, marriage is ordained by God to be between a man and a woman (Genesis 2:21-24; Matthew 19:4-6). Gay marriage/same-sex marriage is a perversion of the institution of marriage and an offense to the God who created marriage.

And this is where my comprehension falters. Christians did not create marriage. They tailored a ritual to fit their own ways, been doing this to pagan rituals since, always (alot of religions have done this to other religions) Saying the Christian god created marriage is like saying Columbus or Amerigo discovered America. It's just asinine! They took it into their hands and tweaked it so it would suit their way of thinking. This is what a conquering group does.

Quote:

Also, God is a God of love (1 John 4:8 ) and a just God. He hates not the sinner but the sin. Don't confuse love with lust, affection, friendship, infatuation, etc. This is love: Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. (1 Cor. 13:4)

This is the most bemusing to me, it really almost promotes gay marriage, i my eyes. ^_^ Honestly, I have seen way more gay couples in this kind of love than married couples, that includes before they were married. How many of those gay people rejoiced when they felt they didn't have to hide in the closet anymore? biggrin

 

[HimeFiveCents]

darlindol17

May I ask exactly why you're against gay marriage? Is it because of religion or a legitimate reason?

As for legitimate reason well I'm sure everyone's reason is legitimate to them. Religion is legitimate to religious people. But there is just no "GOOD ENOUGH" (edit: and I use that term for lack of any other) reason to ban gay marriage. No one is getting hurt and that should be the only reason something should have this big of a stigma with it. Random people's heads don't fall off and explode when two men get married. They aren't getting married in the kitchens of people against homosexuality and when its all done with, you (as in anyone against it) don't have to worry any more about it than you allow yourself to... so whats the big freaking deal, people!? Really? I honestly can't believe its 2013, the world didn't fall into oblivion (at least none we have detected) and we are still bitching about two people of the same gender being with each other.... Weak. -_-
 

[Scarleey]

Banshee Cupcake

ScarletXCrossXCrusader

If I may, I'd like to point out that before Jesus was born the ancient Romans approved of a relationship between two men or two women. If I remember correctly they considered it purer because there was no way for them to have a child without a surrogate mother or father. I can't remember if they could get married but I do know they at least approved or just didn't mind.

In those times the relationships (mostly called pederasty) were more on erotic sex and the purpose is entirely for pleasure and were only temporary. These unions created a moral dilemma for the Greeks and were not universally accepted.

Also, orgies were a form of pagan worship for greek gods during this time.  

[darlindol17]

Dagera

This is exactly why I didn't want to post. People like you (no offense) just blow it out of proportion. I mean, for goodness sake I'm gay and I don't even flip out that much over people who are against gay marriage. Yes, I would like for it to be legal so that one day I can marry the woman I love, but I understand that people have opposition to it. I mean, as long as they don't try to convince me that what I'm doing is wrong, I won't try to convince anybody that it's right. I do understand you being upset. I understand any individual's anger about this topic, but I honestly don't think we need to make it into a big thing.  

[HimeFiveCents]

darlindol17

Dagera

This is exactly why I didn't want to post. People like you (no offense) just blow it out of proportion. I mean, for goodness sake I'm gay and I don't even flip out that much over people who are against gay marriage. Yes, I would like for it to be legal so that one day I can marry the woman I love, but I understand that people have opposition to it. I mean, as long as they don't try to convince me that what I'm doing is wrong, I won't try to convince anybody that it's right. I do understand you being upset. I understand any individual's anger about this topic, but I honestly don't think we need to make it into a big thing.

Um, dude, I'm for gay marriage. How did you get the opposite from my post? Seriously? I did not mean to offend you in any way. You took that completely upside down.....  

[HimeFiveCents]

darlindol17

Dagera

This is exactly why I didn't want to post. People like you (no offense) just blow it out of proportion. I mean, for goodness sake I'm gay and I don't even flip out that much over people who are against gay marriage. Yes, I would like for it to be legal so that one day I can marry the woman I love, but I understand that people have opposition to it. I mean, as long as they don't try to convince me that what I'm doing is wrong, I won't try to convince anybody that it's right. I do understand you being upset. I understand any individual's anger about this topic, but I honestly don't think we need to make it into a big thing.

And this is why I have ******** off this site for awhile. People like you (get offended if you choose to) get a misapprehension and get upset over nothing. I was supporting your side of the argument, but you were too impassioned to take the time to cool down and understand my post. If you didn't want to make anything into a big thing why would you post a comment in a debate forum? Your reaction is befuddling and immature and I have made myself so angry I am going to sign off before I insult you on purpose out of indignant anger. I wish you the best in your marriage to the woman you love, girl, neither my opinion nor scarlet's should dictate that. Do what you want to do, say what you want to say but don't fault myself or anybody for doing the same....and grow a thicker skin. cheers!  

[darlindol17]

Dagera

I didn't get the opposite from your post. What I said was I don't think people should advocate for gay rights the way some people do. I could tell that you were for gay rights. What I mean is I don't think people should try to change other peoples's minds about it being right or not. Getting upset about it isn't going to change anything. Like I said before, I want gay marriage to be legal as much as anybody, but I think that there's a better way. I think we can all use logic and reason through this whole thing.  

[Walter has ganado]

ScarletXCrossXCrusader

Hello! I should probably introduce my opinion and where I stand on this matter, I am a 16 year old pansexual female (who can be a bit wibbly wobbly on her gender) and I am totally for gay rights (I also agree with the opinion that we shouldn't be finding a way to separate the union of two people regardless of the genders)! I am also so sorry to just be adding into what seems to be a bit of a smack down but I agree that you are totally entitled to your right of opinion, but please make sure that it is for justified reasons and that when you are faced with this issue, you deal with it without judgement (please consider Deuteronomy 1:17, "Do not show partiality in judging; hear both small and great alike. Do not be afraid of anyone, for judgment belongs to God. Bring me any case too hard for you, and I will hear it.", seeing as this passage is a very good example of how the bible says that you have your business with God and other people have theirs and it is of no matter to you). I do respect and appreciate your opinion, though, even though it is in direct opposition to mine, but please allow me to feel safe and accepted if I were to end up marrying another person or if our world's children decide to (though I do trust from your various arguments you would make sure to). Also please remember that marriage did also come into inception as a fair way of trading land and other goods!! I must say though, you most certainly know your scripture! Best of luck in your further debates!  

[Walter has ganado]

ScarletXCrossXCrusader

Against.

And im not an animal, i'm a human.

(also I'm so sorry to add in again but I think she was speaking in the terms of us biological, not mentally, being animals seeing as we are physically (once again, not mentally) classified as mammals which is a very common form of animal)  

[Scarleey]

Walter has ganado

ScarletXCrossXCrusader

Against.

And im not an animal, i'm a human.

(also I'm so sorry to add in again but I think she was speaking in the terms of us biological, not mentally, being animals seeing as we are physically (once again, not mentally) classified as mammals which is a very common form of animal)

"we're animals too, and it's our instinct to crave for it." -Louisa Iris

I know what she meant but us humans have what we called "self-control" and "morals". People often use the reason "that were animals" to justify such uncontrollable actions. Humans should not be leveled with animals. Notice "crave" is in bold letters cause I want to point out that craving for sex is not the case for all humans but for all animals, it is.  

[Roxxy v2]

I'm for it. No reason to go around deciding who does and doesn't have a legitimate relationship.