Feminism

[Strange Lizard]

While I'm not really a feminist, I don't like it when people treat women differently. There was this one lady who wouldn't let me carry a BRICK because she thought i would hurt myself, so she dragged a guy over to do it for me.

But at the same time i do like it when men treat a woman differently. Like holding a door open or offering to help carry a bag, silly little things like that.  

[Sweater Panda]

I'm for feminism. I think that men and women should have equal rights. In fact, I feel that everyone one the planet Earth should be treated fairly and given equal rights. I don't see how gender can matter when it comes to voting, jobs, etc. I feel that women haven't been treated as they should have in the past, but I don't think that women should be given more rights than men because of that. I cannot stress enough that everyone is equal. At least in my viewpoint anyway.  

[stacilo]

I wouldn't consider myself a feminist but I do believe in gender equality. I don't think feminism should be a thing even. Girls aren't the only ones who are judged or expected to be a certain way. Feminists complain about how girls are expected to wear make up, be skinny, shave our legs, etc. but boys are also expected to be a certain way. Yes, some girls might not get a construction job because a guy will get it but a girl will get a job at a sephora before a guy would. Feminists tend to just focus on girl issues when guys have just as many issues. Our society has made a large gap between masculine and feminine and I don't think either has it better.  

[cool4]

My problem with feminism is that it takes everyone is equal as a premise, When that is not the case.

For example look at Olympic runners: simply on body mechanics men can run faster.

If running is about speed men are superior, to declare equality you would have to say men must slow down their pace so men and women can be equal.

Demanding equality you have a similar affect, men and women don't appear in even numbers for several reasons in Engineering. They then allow women who are interested into Engineering into the program to promote equality and the men don't get in because the bar for grades gets set too high due to numbers. Men's grades tend to be lower in High school because most men aren't built in a way that they can sit through a classroom and be happy there.

So I'm against Feminism because equality doesn't work. Besides the concept of equality is a difficult one to determine how you put it in place.

We have pure equality everyone is given the same sized slice of the pie. Or we give larger slice of the pie to someone who works hard and deserves it. Or we give more pie to someone who needs it. All of those solutions have problems, and that's why I'm against modern feminism.

I believe we deserve the rights that allow us to be seen as people, but until you can solve what equality really means, looks like, works. I don't support the implications of equality we've seen as of late.  

[InterstateDaisy]

I call myself a feminist for sure but I don't agree with the way a lot of modern feminists handle it. I think that women should be payed the same as a man of course.. as long as she is doing the work and has the experience he has. If a man and a woman are both doing the exact same job and have been in that line of work or doing that sort of job for the same amount of time, then she deserves no less than he does. But if she is doing less than he is then she should get payed less and if she is much newer to the job then he is, she deserves less because she has not been through the same problems and pitfalls that build her knowledge. But it's just the same way around. if a woman and a man are in a work place and she's been in that business longer and does more than him, she deserves more than him. I believe we do need to attack some of the idea about rape in our society for sure. We still victim blame and condemn women who where raped sometimes when we shouldn't. We need to fix some of the ways that women are just sex symbols and things in some cases yes.The war on the word "bossy"? Smash the patriarchy? Destroying the Purity Myth? It's really nit picky and kind of obnoxious sometimes.

if the movemnt is going to be nit picky about empowering women or making men and women equal they need to fight for some of the lamer things too. Women still get custody in most cases (Cannot find an exact percent at this time I apologize). If these feminists looked at it, wouldn't that be sexist? the idea that the children belong with the mother and not with the father (I.E. Woman stays with the kids) even if maybe she isn't the better fit one? Likewise, what about the military? Since I have turned 18, no one has told me I need to register for select service yet there are posters all over the school reminding the 18 year old boys that the MUST sign up. Isn't that sexist? i mean, can't i, as a girl, defend my country like a man can? Or am I too weak and must be protected by the men around me? Or what about women in other countries that don't have the right to even drive or vote? Are you going to start fighting for their rights?

I guess my thing is that the feminist movements started out as something great that got dragged into crap and now instead of fighting for things that are much more blatantly sexist they complain about dumb crap.

 

[loonaboots]

i used to be, but then i took a bigger look at it and was like, no

i'm not supporting this.

the way feminism is going is taking on a more and more "men are horrible" approach, and is ostracizing anyone who doesn't agree with every little thing. actions and opinions in the past that feminists today support (and sometimes support) is another reason-- men don't need abuse hotlines/ can't be raped is a common thing, as well as 1 in 4- it's been proven wrong multiple times. the wage gap, too.

am i for equality? yes, i am. but am i a feminist? hell no, and i'm not going to be one.
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[Queen Pansexual]

I really didn't like reading replies in this thread. I'm sorry that, clearly, some of you have been exposed to man-haters or false feminists.

Feminism IS GENDER EQUALITY.

It has the name derived from feminine/female because it was a movement started long, long ago when men went to war and women stepped up to take up those jobs. Back then, it was women being equal. But now, in the modern, 21st Century, we have Third Wave Feminism. This is truly gender equality. It is not only telling society that is okay for a woman to fit stereotypes and it is equally okay for her to break all of them, but it is also saying that telling men to "man-up" is wrong because it implies it is a masculine trait to have strength, consequently suggesting that women are weak.

Again, I'm sorry that some of you don't understand feminism, or at least real feminism. But feminism is basically a movement begging society to treat women as people. I suggest you all go to YouTube and look up Joss Wheadon talking about feminism, because he truly understands it.

He actually put it in an easy way- "I start thinking about the fact that we have this word when we're thinking about race that says we have evolved beyond something and we don't really have this word for gender. Now you could argue sexism, but I'd say that's a little specific. People feel removed from sexism. 'I'm not a sexist, but I'm not a feminist.' They think there's this fuzzy middle ground. There's no fuzzy middle ground. You either believe that women are people or you don't. It's that simple." [x]  

[loonaboots]

Blind Arreis

well, feminism is supposed to work towards gender equality, yes, but it's a movement for women-- in short, only works on issues (real or not) that affect women. men's rights activism is equality forwarding for men (basically, feminism for men)-- in short, yes, you're right, but no, you're also very wrong.

also, there is no "false feminists." if they identify as feminist, they are a feminist. it's that simple. and third wave feminism (aka this feminism, like you said) is what's pushing people away. femen, "men can't be raped," "1 in 4," and telling women that they're constantly oppressed by a "patriarchy" is the problem, and it's what's pushing people away. if feminism did what it said it was doing, maybe i would still be one. it would also help if feminism actually updated their facts- 1 in 4, like i said previously, the wage gap (many, many studies and economists have proved it wrong-- the bureau of labor statistics is one of them), and things like that, for starters.

but even then, it's a big, big maybe. knowing what i do now, the "no" option is a lot bigger than the "maybe" option for me. a lot.

also, i'd argue joss whedon doesn't get it. he's saying that because i'm not a feminist, i'm sexist and believe i'm less than my brother, my father-- which isn't true. i may not be a feminist, but that doesn't mean i'm not any less of a person than they are, nor that i believe women are inferior. we're all people. i believe women are humans, i believe men are humans, and i believe we all are created equal. however, that doesn't mean feminism. that means i possess common decency towards people. (i do also think that legally, not so much equal- however, it's not laws the majority of the time that cause the inequality.)

in fact, i'd also argue that feminism is partially making women feel that they're inferior-- when i was a feminist, i felt like every man was out to get me. why? because i believed that they all would dismiss me if i was raped, assaulted, or anything, that we lived in a patriarchy (we don't), and so on. it wasn't healthy (not to mention my gigantic victim complex fueled by feminism), and since i've left, i've realized that no, all of that is false, and i've not felt like a victim over nothing since.
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[Queen Pansexual]

loonaboots

I disagree. Feminism is a movement for everybody. :/ I know a lot of male feminists and they all agree it affects everybody.

Feminists are not the ones saying men can't be raped. They are the ones saying they can. I know they can, my friends know they can, real feminists know they can. It's the false feminists (yes they really do exist) that disagree with that. It's these women I always see on Facebook talking about hating men and falsely accusing ex-husbands/ex-boyfriends of rape for more child support that are spreading false feminism. It's that simple. There was a snapshot (with the name and pic colored out, of course) somewhere in my files. Someone'd taken snapshots of these and labelled feminism when it is not.

Well, Joss believes that feminism = gender equality and if you don't want gender equality, then what can you possibly want?

Feminism has been referred to by feminists as common sense and common decency as well. Because feminism is a movement to get everyone to treat everyone as human.

I'm sorry that that was your experience. That sounds horrible, living in fear of men. And I do realize that some people spread that idea. But it's not what feminism is, truly. I used to feel like that too until I got some different feminist friends and influences. You should not be afraid of men; no one should be. Feminism is supposed to mean that not all men are rapists with urges they can't control, and women are not always the victim. I'll admit that the idea of feminism has been skewed over the years when its taken a jump in popularity.

I'm not asking you to become a feminist again, but I really hope you'll get a different idea of what it really is.  

[loonaboots]

Blind Arreis

i never said men couldn't be feminists, i said that it only worked on women's issues, and not men. movement for women =/= men can't be a part of it.

and really? i've heard them say that 95% of men are rapists, and that they couldn't be raped b/c they're men, and not women. they are saying that. and like i said, there's no "real" feminist. anyone who says they are a feminist is a feminist. it's that simple. "false feminists" don't exist. i hate to break it to you, but that is feminism, no matter how much you'd rather it not be.

well, i and over 5 billion people are not joss. and oh wow, i never said i didn't want gender equality, i am all for equality! but never ever, would i be a feminist.

and how has it been referred to by people who aren't feminists, by people who couldn't care less about feminists, by your "fake feminists," and so on? it's not just your "real feminists" that count. and like i said, it's a movement for women's rights, not for gender equality for men and women. egalitarianism is defined as for equality for both men and women.

yes, well, i was. and now i'm not, look at that.

and i know you're not, i simply wanted to state my opinion at you, as you have a very clearly defined, strong opinion.
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[Astra the Fae]

loonaboots

Blind Arreis

i never said men couldn't be feminists, i said that it only worked on women's issues, and not men. movement for women =/= men can't be a part of it.

and really? i've heard them say that 95% of men are rapists, and that they couldn't be raped b/c they're men, and not women. they are saying that. and like i said, there's no "real" feminist. anyone who says they are a feminist is a feminist. it's that simple. "false feminists" don't exist. i hate to break it to you, but that is feminism, no matter how much you'd rather it not be.

well, i and over 5 billion people are not joss. and oh wow, i never said i didn't want gender equality, i am all for equality! but never ever, would i be a feminist.

and how has it been referred to by people who aren't feminists, by people who couldn't care less about feminists, by your "fake feminists," and so on? it's not just your "real feminists" that count. and like i said, it's a movement for women's rights, not for gender equality for men and women. egalitarianism is defined as for equality for both men and women.

yes, well, i was. and now i'm not, look at that.

and i know you're not, i simply wanted to state my opinion at you, as you have a very clearly defined, strong opinion.
x

Um. Feminism has always been about gender equality since its inception. How'd about doing the research before opening your ignorant mouth. I know I know. You think you know it all and think egalitarianism sounds cooler and makes you look smarter but no.

Seriously. Stop. Feminism is needed for a lot of things including the institutionalized misogyny that you keep showing.

Its fine to have an opinion but not when you're trying to portray it as fact. Now I want you to turn around and back up your claim with academic sources or you can stop.  

[loonaboots]

Astra Green

um. i never said it wasn't about gender equality, i said that it only focuses on women's issues. how about instead of telling me about my "ignorant mouth," you learn to read and stop telling me how to research, mmkay? i know, i know, you think you know all and that you're supreme. i bet you think badmouthing me makes you look really cool and smarter but no.

(and i don't think i sound smart, i think i'm stating an opinion.)

"institutionalized misogyny"?! oh my god, do you spout that out to everyone who disagrees with you?! let me tell you, you're showing more of that good old "institutionalized misogyny" by telling me i'm inherently sexist for not conforming to your ideas of what a woman should believe in.

also, answer me this: why would a woman want to be part of a movement that would shame her for having different beliefs and not being a feminist if they weren't a part of that movement? hmm? i'm waiting, ms. smarty.

and where did i say i was trying to portray it (aka my opinion) as fact?

oh, you want sources? i can do that:


Quote:
"and i know you're not, i simply wanted to state my opinion at you, as you have a very clearly defined, strong opinion." (me, in the reply that you quoted; paragraph 6).


but where, oh where, do my opinions need academic sources? where?

on top of that, do you want me to back up the fact that there's over 5 billion people who aren't joss whedon? look in the mirror, look through random facebook searches, look through censuses, photos- there's your proof. do you want proof that feminists don't care about men's issues? with buzzwords like "institutionalized misogyny" that you throw around, i'm willing to bet your tumblr is chock full of them. besides my opinions, the stuff like that which i've said don't need sources.

on top of that, opinions don't need sources. shocking, right? i know, i got the wind knocked out of me when i learned that.

but, you're right, i've said that the wage gap doesn't exist. so, by all means! argue it up with the u.s. department of labor.

it's fine to have an opinion but not when you try and shove it down someone's throat. now i want you to back up your claim with academic sources, or you can stop.

i'll be waiting right here.
x