Is there God?

[bluecherry]

Yeah, it comes up in a couple threads I think. It was probably the one about "what happens when you die?" you're thinking of that we went over the whole religion thing already in.

every1lafs

bluecherry

"Conisniss"? Do you mean "consciousness"? If so, consciousness isn't like something that is a concrete solid thing itself, it's more like the result of reactions in the brain. When the brain ceases to function, no more consciousness results.

Ah, no more steak = no more sizzle.

But so many of us cannot fathom that concept. Perhaps it is a well-founded conceit that the our whole being seems to exceed the sum of our parts... Otherwise, many would demand, what's the point of life? Merely to roll the genetic dice and hope the next generation will be better adapted to this world, and perpetuate the species? Once our furry ancestors reached sentience, one hopes there's a greater purpose. It is the purpose of Myth, broadly speaking, to bridge the gap between the concrete world which hasn't enough answers and the subconscious dreamer in us all.

There are fairly universal archetypes found through the ages, across cultures, which bind us across time and geography. Does this point to a divine source, the cut diamond which is presented to each culture as but one facet? Or does this point to a universal yearning in Man, to be more than he is? I fear, when we each know the answer, it will be too late to share! cool

I rest comfortably with my own cosmology, and prefer not to be preachy. What works for you is not my business, and I'm not fond of pushy groups. An aunt of mine distributes little pamphlets for her own beliefs, harmless enough but annoying as all hell...

"But so many of us cannot fathom that concept." Not wishing, or refusing, to believe something doesn't change what is and what isn't. If a mother said she just "couldn't fathom" her "sweet little boy" ever killing somebody that doesn't mean he didn't if all the hard evidence points to him having done it as an example.

Also, I agree with what Aristotle said WAAAAAAY back about the point of life. What's the point of a person's life? To be happy. It is what every one of our actions should and generally does aim toward. Everything people are doing (as long as they aren't totally messed up in the head) is to try to stay happy or get happier. Even things that may seem on the surface to go against that (say you've got a boring job you go to where you hate your boss) are actually in favor of it (you need the money to enable survival and only stay with that job as long as you can't get one that you would prefer over the current one.) Humans clearly do not exist merely for the sake of existing, just to spread our genes and keep the species going. This can be evidenced by all the things we humans have that do not help survival, but merely contribute to happiness (videogames for example) and the existence of lots of people such as myself who have freely chosen not to have children. And those of us who chose not to breed, why do we do it? Again, it is because for whatever the individual's exact reason is, it is because we are happier not reproducing.

Care to elaborate and give examples of what you mean about archetypes of/in people? If anything, I'd think such things would not have to mean there was some magical puppet master so much as perhaps that with the nature of our environment and the way the universe in general works combined with the biological capabilities and form and such of the human being that certain things just work well and that is why they come up all over.

Maybe it is a tad on the optimistic side, but I don't think it is too unrealistic to think humans can and just might still survive long enough as a species to figure out at least the majority of the nature of the universe. :3

WoodNymph39: In a way. whee I've never really had any classes or seminars on it or anything admittedly, but it's been a passionate interest for me for a long time. Perhaps if I can find time for it in my schedule, I may take philosophy classes in college some time. Maybe I could take it as a minor with my major in English lit. ninja

Oh indeed there are MANY other arguments going back and forth on the subject of religion. Christianity being an especially popular and well known one there are lots about that one in particular. I just keep bringing that one up since it seemed to be an issue brought up in the first post of this thread. And also, I know it well and it is easy to explain. I have read stuff on lots of the other ones too. If anybody wants to bring up stuff related to them, I'm game for discussing them too. 3nodding

 

[every1lafs]

Common, recurring archetypes include the Hero (and the hero's Journey), the Earth Mother, and the Mentor. Common lines of action are the journey into "the belly of the beast" (from Greek, Christian, even Star Wars narratives), the Flood, and the Hero's Journey (from common, self-doubting everyman through the experiences that mold him, into the heroic role).

One of my favorite lecturers remains Joseph Campbell. If you have time, check him out at Wikipedia...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Campbell  

[bluecherry]

Thank you for providing some examples of what you meant. These sound like common character and story archetypes actually. There is a saying that there are really only a very limited number of basic plot types that work and every story really is built off them for example. I chalk it up to the nature of the human being and the universe we exist in tending to make certain things common and/or work best again myself.

 

[DeepMentalityGX]

Well I personally believe that there is a God. The reason for the 9/11 attacks happenings and all those other bad things is because God gave us free will.  

[bluecherry]

Rules of the subforum: at least try to support what you say. I'll give it a week and if after that amount of time you haven't tried to justify that post, I'm deleting it and this post.

 

[Miharu Ichikawa]

Before anyone goes off and asks why
are there bad things happening in the
world, we must look at ourselves.

Surely you realize that there is an
opposite to most things in life. Where
there exists good, there is bad. Where
it is day, there is night.

People are thought by some to be created
by a higher being, called a God. Because
we consider ourselves to be the good people,
note the bad among our race.

It is unfair of humans to go around
so accusingly questioning why it is
that bad things happen to us. It is
a fact of life, a part of nature, a
natural occurence that while it may
be phenomenally disliked, it exists
(much like a females monthy cycle
which is undoubtedly the highest of
all hated lively rituals smile

Don't go blaming this God for bad things that
happen because if you look to the begining of
time, not once was there a moment in which
bad or evil didn't exist (even before the incident with
the Tree of Knowledge, an angel tried to be
higher than God causing himself to be Satan).

Because of this action, sin was released to
the world and people, naturally inclined to
sin every now and then, made others had to
suffer.

You can't think you're the first person to think
WHY WOULD GOD LET IT HAPPEN UNLESS HE
DOESN'T EXIST because again biblical reference
shows that way back when people felt obligated to
ask the same thing instead of asking themselves.

God gave us free will and the ability
to think freely. He gave us the freedom
to do so as we pleased. Knowing full well
our inclination towards sinning, there is
such a thing called forgiveness and repenting.

You can't blame God for all the bad things that happen
because really you should ask yourself what you might've
done to cause it.

Look at 911, a nation hated ours so
bad that they took out a great status
symbol and with it lives of our families.

Why didn't God save us?

Because it was ultimitaly our fault.

Had our nation been in good
affairs with them and had things
gone smoothly throughout history
so that we'd have only alliances,
then we'd avoided that tragic event.

Realistically, its stupid to think that way because
chances are you yourself dislike people simply
because of opposing views. This is the same with
that nation and ours, and they chose conflict, while
not the best choice, to combat their opposition towards us
in hopes of weakening us.

Strictly, it is survival of the fittest
and unfortunately for us, their
choice of weapon was to bring about
destruction to our families and in
length, country. They felt the need to
perhaps be above us, and so they took
their action.

Also, God is NOT supposed to keep
the world sane. Quote to me that
from the bible, please.

He isn't responsible for
making the world less
hateful, only for helping
those following him to
lead good, not excellent
by any means, life.

If you read this in the bible, then do quote.
Don't push your own beliefs as to what
a God should and shouldn't do strictly
because you feel negative about the
bad things that have happened to you.
This in itself is enough to start
a radically controversial argument.

We pray to bring ourselves closer to
God in hopes that he is hearing us out
and so that we can feel more inner peace.

Praying FOR things is like wishing on
a star, its childish and should be known
to bring you only false hope. For those
who pray, it is strictly to feel spiritually
closer to their God, not to ask for anything else.
If all else, be happy you're alive to pray instead
of asking for more things to happen because you
could be in a worse situation, or be dead.

If you wanted something to kill you then
asked God to do that, you are asking for
something stupid.

God CREATED you, he by NO MEANS WHATSOEVER
is looking to DESTROY you. You bring about your
own end that way. Be happy you're alive. It's
a privilege, not a right. If you prayed for death,
then why didn't you do it on your own? For fear
of hell? For fear of shaming family or friends?
Because the praying for death is capable of
what you were avoiding all on its own.

Like you said things are unexplained to
us, and probably for good reason. As
everything has flaw, I'm sure we'd think
that of God if we knew the whole truth.
and if we knew the WHOLE truth, where
is the point in living there? We live to
learn and grow as people, not to wish
to die. If you want to die, kill yourself,
but do NOT blame God for his unwilling
attitude to kill you himself.

Honestly, the way people blame God
for all the bad things that happen to
them before realizing our free will
given to us, therefore certain negative
acts which we feel are justified that
we do, bounding to occur naturally at
at least one point in life. . its sad.

Be thankful if all else for your life.
If you chose not to be and think
you're worth branding as having
a bad life, then be happy you have
internet to connect to people at
all and ask for insight on what bothers you.

I hope some of that helped.  

[bluecherry]

If this is an attempt to back up the statement made by GX-Champion, this is known as the "free will defense" against the problem of evil argument against the existence of the typical "omni this that so on and so forth" supposed god. However, I do not believe the free will defense can effectively circumvent the objections raised by the problem of evil so long as we are still talking about the typical omnistuff god. I have already posted my objections to the free will defense in this very thread even on the fist page of the thread. Please address what I wrote related to this issue on the first page if you wish to defend a position against the problem of evil on the basis of the existence of free will.

 

[Miharu Ichikawa]

Sorry about that,
I hadn't taken the
time to read what
others had put,
I felt compelled
to just let that out.
I'll take a look, sorry again smile  

[bluecherry]

Heh, this subforum is slow moving and none of the threads are very long, I promise you nothing bad will happen in the time it takes to read the thread before posting. razz But anyway, I await your response once you've read the other stuff. 3nodding

 

[Kreya Earthsong]

The dictionary definition of God (uppercase) as provided by dictionary.com is 1. the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.

The definition of god (lowercase) also provided by dictionary.com is

3. (lowercase) one of several deities, esp. a male deity, presiding over some portion of worldly affairs.

For eons people have been questioning our existence, where we come from, who we come from, what is our purpose and so on. The peoples of ancient civilizations created gods and deities to explain and bring order to a very chaotic world. Religion depended on quality of life, if the gods were kind or if they were harsh.

All gods and Gods are slightly different, none are exactly the same, therefore no one person can state as a fact (not as a belief) that their God or god exists and others do not.

For instance, we as humans are made to procreate to continue and better the species it is written on our DNA. Is it then so hard to believe that our "creator" is merely a being designed to create? That on it's DNA it says to create life and then move on to create more. Humans are arrogant for thinking a supposedly omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent being (or multiple beings) are interested in us and our affairs?

And as for "bad" things happening, who are we to judge the decisions made by a being (or beings) that supposedly created us? It is outside our comprehension to understand such things.

What it ultimately comes down to is faith, since (thus far) there is no concrete evidence supporting either yes or no. What I think should happen though is that the state and the spiritual should remain COMPLETELY separate, faith is a private thing, not national, so governments shouldn't make it become so.  

[S u g a h b o p]

God is a big freakin' question mark.
If we knew the answer then we'd know how to act - that being 'lawful to God's commands'. So we cant know, because then we'd all be under the dictatorship of some invisible guy who lives in the sky. And that wouldn't be life, that would be a conscription to a sugar coated army of people not wanting to get onto some guy's bad side.
All we can do is ask the question, make up theories, read some books, then die and see if we were right or not.

I'm agnostic, and I really do respect other people's beliefs and I find them really interesting but there always has to be a God in every religion because ( in my own opinion ) we like to feel as if there is something bigger than us. And, its an insecurity that all humans have and always will have, even if facts are eventually proved to be fiction there will be a mass number still persisting to believe in a God.

 

[bluecherry]

Kreya Earthsong

The dictionary definition of God (uppercase) as provided by dictionary.com is 1. the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.

The definition of god (lowercase) also provided by dictionary.com is

3. (lowercase) one of several deities, esp. a male deity, presiding over some portion of worldly affairs.

For eons people have been questioning our existence, where we come from, who we come from, what is our purpose and so on. The peoples of ancient civilizations created gods and deities to explain and bring order to a very chaotic world. Religion depended on quality of life, if the gods were kind or if they were harsh.

All gods and Gods are slightly different, none are exactly the same, therefore no one person can state as a fact (not as a belief) that their God or god exists and others do not.

For instance, we as humans are made to procreate to continue and better the species it is written on our DNA. Is it then so hard to believe that our "creator" is merely a being designed to create? That on it's DNA it says to create life and then move on to create more. Humans are arrogant for thinking a supposedly omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent being (or multiple beings) are interested in us and our affairs?

And as for "bad" things happening, who are we to judge the decisions made by a being (or beings) that supposedly created us? It is outside our comprehension to understand such things.

What it ultimately comes down to is faith, since (thus far) there is no concrete evidence supporting either yes or no. What I think should happen though is that the state and the spiritual should remain COMPLETELY separate, faith is a private thing, not national, so governments shouldn't make it become so.

"Who are we to judge?" We're the people supposedly having those decisions and their effects made about us and forced upon us, that's who!! eek Seriously, is there any other reason to make "god" exempt from logic or claim it makes sense in some "other" logic that we just can't comprehend other than failing to make sense when you apply real logic and not wanting to give up the belief in a deity no matter what the facts are saying? And if the meaning of "kind" and "benevolent" and "loving" and all that jazz doesn't mean to a god what it means to us, does the term really hold any meaning at all anymore to us? And wouldn't supporting and/or liking this deity because you support/like the idea of a being which is all nice in what "nice" means to you be falling for a problem of equivocation?

 

[the_first_Argetlam]

I personally dont believe in a "god". I think that what you do will affect what happens to you in the future. some call it karma.  

[CheKage]

Qoute:
"Our future is build by what we have thought in the past." - Buhdda

Everything is vibration/energy. It feels different because it is different. Thought can be turned into it's equivalent in matter, the more powerful the more effective. EVERYTHING IS GOD. For me GOD is a defenition in a word for all that exists! My mother once told me that she herself once saw a priest heal a friend of hers from a disease in a few seconds. He wasn't some kind of para-normal or supra-natural guy, just a jewish man. He just thought he will heal her and he did it.
I believe that you can understand me, and do not believe I am crazy like some of the people I know in real life. They think I watched too much of this "new great anime movie" "Naruto" or something like that. Anyway, that is what I believe, and I am open to contradictions that would help me perfect my view of God and Everything that Exists.