No on prop 8

[broken_bleeding_angel]

I don't think prop 8 should have been created in the first place.  

[Rissa Unit]

*lurks in the shadows* ninja  

[Hester Peche]

broken_bleeding_angel

I don't think prop 8 should have been created in the first place.

Yeah, goddamn my freaking home-state.

I mean seriously, what were we thinking...then again we have a 'roided out ex-movie star running things...  

[faretheewell]

"You have heard it said 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you that you may be sons of your father in heaven."--Matthew 5:43-45

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured on you." --Matthew7:1-3

"'Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the law?' Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."--Matthew 22:36-41

Luke 10:25-38

"It does not matter whether you kill a man with the sword or with a word since it is killing itself that is prohibited." Lactantius "Divine Institutes" book 6, chapter 20

"The good Christian hates evil, not evildoers." Lactantius "Divine Institutes" book 1, chapter 1.

"It is a wicked prayer to wish for someone to hate or to fear so that there might be someone to conquer." St Augustine "City of God" book 4, chapter 15.

"When fidelity is promised it must be kept, even to an enemy against whom war is being waged." St Augustine from "Letter 189, to Boniface"

"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood." Article 1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights

"Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty." Article 2 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights

" * (1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.
* (2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.
* (3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State." Article 16 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights

"Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein." Article 30 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights

"Peace is the 'work of justice' indirectly, insofar as justice removes the obstacals to peace: but it is the work of charity directly...For love is a unititive force." Thomas Aquinas





Some people say "Kill them all and let God sort them out." I disagree. I say "Let them live and let God sort them out, for it is not my place to judge."  

[broken_bleeding_angel]

faretheewell

"You have heard it said 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you that you may be sons of your father in heaven."--Matthew 5:43-45

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured on you." --Matthew7:1-3

"'Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the law?' Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."--Matthew 22:36-41

Luke 10:25-38

"It does not matter whether you kill a man with the sword or with a word since it is killing itself that is prohibited." Lactantius "Divine Institutes" book 6, chapter 20

"The good Christian hates evil, not evildoers." Lactantius "Divine Institutes" book 1, chapter 1.

"It is a wicked prayer to wish for someone to hate or to fear so that there might be someone to conquer." St Augustine "City of God" book 4, chapter 15.

"When fidelity is promised it must be kept, even to an enemy against whom war is being waged." St Augustine from "Letter 189, to Boniface"

"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood." Article 1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights

"Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty." Article 2 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights

" * (1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.
* (2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.
* (3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State." Article 16 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights

"Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein." Article 30 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights

"Peace is the 'work of justice' indirectly, insofar as justice removes the obstacals to peace: but it is the work of charity directly...For love is a unititive force." Thomas Aquinas





Some people say "Kill them all and let God sort them out." I disagree. I say "Let them live and let God sort them out, for it is not my place to judge."

I tip my hat to you good lady, for though hast spoken the words to which my lips could not form. Thank you. <3  

[u nd i]

Just as a side note, when the word "love" is used in the bible like that, it means respect, value etc, not in a sexual way. A lot of those references did not seem relevant to me.

But hey, that's just me.  

[Tirissana]

The thing about the Bible is that it has never ever condemned homosexuality or even homosexual sex. Never are the words homosexual even uttered in the Bible. I'm of course talking about the Hebrew text.

In the OT, Leviticus is speaking about temple prostitution not homosexuality being unnatural. The word toevah means that which is not ritually unclean or in others words un-kosher. Context plays a major key in reading verses, as does understanding the culture of Judea in those times. The word qedesh means male prostitute not Sodomite as people thought. In other words homosexuality wasn't condemned however prostitution was.

The fall of Sodom and Gomorrah didn't occur because of homosexuality, sexual rituals, etc. It was caused by inhospitality. The inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah were inhospitable to their guests, YHVH's angels. The only reason why Lot and his daughters were saved from the tragedy wasn't because they were straight, it was because they showed the angels hospitality.

Romans 1 talks about God, YHVH allowing the gentiles or non-Jews to worship them. Paul thus says that because of this God's actions are unnatural. Now unnatural doesn't mean that oh well if it doesn't happen in nature, etc. Unnatural refers to us going against our pre-determined roles. In other words being gay isn't unnatural as it does happen in nature. Now according to Paul someone who is gay but decides to be straight or try to act straight would be unnatural, as they're going against their pre-determined roles. Also in later verses does it say that women swap their natural roles for unnatural roles. You have to remember that according to the culture in those times (especially up to the 16th century when the KJV was written) women's roles were more submissive. They were supposed to take care of the children, cook, clean, take care of their husbands, etc. If a woman was more in a dominant role, then she would be unnatural.

So again much of what we think the Bible condemns homosexuality, doesn't. Why? Because the Bible wasn't written in English. There are many words for homosexual in the Greek language however arsenkitos appears. Basically it's a pun for "man-bed" which refers more to prostitution than homosexuality.

Now turning this full circle, God is the creator of all things. He created homosexuals. He loves his creations equally. He does not condemn homosexuals because what they do is unnatural. In fact what they do is natural for they know how to love their neighbor. To love God is to love another. For God is love and Jesus set forth the Law of Agape for all Christians to follow. To condemn someone is not Agape. To deny someone basic human rights is not agape.

Those who claim that Prop 8 is good are not Christ-like and do not know what God's love truly is. To be Christ-like is to love God and love another. That is essentially what Christ did.  

[u nd i]

I respectfully disagree with the post above.

I don't have time to argue all the points as I am off to bed now, but I will pick up on the last couple.

Firstly, saying they "know how to love their neighbour" in that context. If you use that argument, you are also condoning incest and *****. As stated in my last post, love does not always mean sexually/physically.

Also, that last one about saying Prop 8 is good and not being Christ-like. Would Jesus have voted yes, knowing homosexuality is wrong, conforming to society? I have forgotten all my other valid points, I had a lot to say on that point but it is late and I am too tired to think. I'll come back in the morning and see how crappy my post is and maybe fix it xD

You bring up some interesting points of discussion though.
 

[Tirissana]

Ananobot

I respectfully disagree with the post above.

I don't have time to argue all the points as I am off to bed now, but I will pick up on the last couple.

Firstly, saying they "know how to love their neighbour" in that context. If you use that argument, you are also condoning incest and *****. As stated in my last post, love does not always mean sexually/physically.

Also, that last one about saying Prop 8 is good and not being Christ-like. Would Jesus have voted yes, knowing homosexuality is wrong, conforming to society? I have forgotten all my other valid points, I had a lot to say on that point but it is late and I am too tired to think. I'll come back in the morning and see how crappy my post is and maybe fix it xD

You bring up some interesting points of discussion though.

Except ***** are straight not homosexual. And again homosexuality isn't wrong. I was illustrating how Prop 8 was wrong and unChrist-like.

Incest is legal in a few countries. ***** is a psychological condition. not neccessarily molestation of a child.

Love thy neighbor comes from the Bible in Galatains. So what you're saying is that because Jesus and Paul both brought forth this commandment that THEY are condoning ***** only bringing up points that are explictly stated in the Bible and what they mean and adapting it to the present. Incest is prohibited in the Bible as is *****.

Jesus would not have voted yes. Jesus was against the society of his time. He was what we would like to call an activist. He wanted the Pharisees to change. He did what he could to get people to change. He is the one who wants us to love each other equally as God loves us equally.

If you can't love your neighbor how can you love God?  

[tummytumsXD]

AThousandLullabies

everyone says it goes against the Bible.
how??
i've read the Bible, and i don't see anything saying being gay
or having a gay marriage is wrong

well theres alot of bibles mabey u didnt read the rite one hahaha
srry im not going to read the bible i hate it cuz in my opinion that book is full of lies  

[tummytumsXD]

the thing that gets my pissed off is that pple will always blame the damn bible or jesus if they dont like gays. ******** IT!!!!!!!!!!!!! IF JESUS WERE TO BE ALIVE RITE NOW HE WOULD HAVE VOTED NO!

ok where in the hell does it say that its not rite to be gay/homo in the bible? show me the damn proof!!!!!!!! god loves all of us equally he wouldnt care if ppl will like the same sex

maby if god didnt like the gays there wouldnt be any had u thought of that?

now becuz of those damn haters gays have no rite to marry!!!  

[Hester Peche]

tummytumsXD

the thing that gets my pissed off is that pple will always blame the damn bible or jesus if they dont like gays. ******** IT!!!!!!!!!!!!! IF JESUS WERE TO BE ALIVE RITE NOW HE WOULD HAVE VOTED NO!

ok where in the hell does it say that its not rite to be gay/homo in the bible? show me the damn proof!!!!!!!! god loves all of us equally he wouldnt care if ppl will like the same sex

maby if god didnt like the gays there wouldnt be any had u thought of that?

now becuz of those damn haters gays have no rite to marry!!!

I understand your need to express your point of view but, would you please refer back to the Rules of Debate.

Thank you! <3  

[faretheewell]

Ananobot

Just as a side note, when the word "love" is used in the bible like that, it means respect, value etc, not in a sexual way. A lot of those references did not seem relevant to me.

But hey, that's just me.

I was not referring to those texts by using "love" in a sexual way. I also take them to mean "respect, value, see as human being." I was not justifying homosexual relationships with each other. My post was a comment on homosexual relationships with heterosexual Christians. Or, more accurately, what kinds of rights heterosexual Christians have to comment.  

[tummytumsXD]

Hester Peche

tummytumsXD

the thing that gets my pissed off is that pple will always blame the damn bible or jesus if they dont like gays. ******** IT!!!!!!!!!!!!! IF JESUS WERE TO BE ALIVE RITE NOW HE WOULD HAVE VOTED NO!

ok where in the hell does it say that its not rite to be gay/homo in the bible? show me the damn proof!!!!!!!! god loves all of us equally he wouldnt care if ppl will like the same sex

maby if god didnt like the gays there wouldnt be any had u thought of that?

now becuz of those damn haters gays have no rite to marry!!!

I understand your need to express your point of view but, would you please refer back to the Rules of Debate.

Thank you! <3

i will but it kinda true  

[Hester Peche]

tummytumsXD

Hester Peche

tummytumsXD

the thing that gets my pissed off is that pple will always blame the damn bible or jesus if they dont like gays. ******** IT!!!!!!!!!!!!! IF JESUS WERE TO BE ALIVE RITE NOW HE WOULD HAVE VOTED NO!

ok where in the hell does it say that its not rite to be gay/homo in the bible? show me the damn proof!!!!!!!! god loves all of us equally he wouldnt care if ppl will like the same sex

maby if god didnt like the gays there wouldnt be any had u thought of that?

now becuz of those damn haters gays have no rite to marry!!!

I understand your need to express your point of view but, would you please refer back to the Rules of Debate.

Thank you! <3

i will but it kinda true

I respect your opinions but, please try to be more mindful of your use of language in the future.