Gay Marriage. Nay or Yay?

[Ratt Kazamata]

greeness

I vote yea on gay marriage. I happen to live in Iowa = gay marriage legal. I can get gay married if I want to ^^
and I believe that everyone should be allowed to as well. I've never wanted to get married, and if I did, I'd want it to be in Vegas with a random stranger who isn't drunk. the next on my list is gay married ^^
I haven't found anyone to do it with though. sigh.


.... anyone want to get married to me?

lol, that's insane. XD  

[Trielle R Whitetree]

I believe that Lesbian/Gay Marriage should be expected all over the world, Its expected here in Canada, and a lot of American's come here to tie the knot. Some of have said, "What's the point in the gay community getting married? they can lived together and that's like being married" its not though because you can live together in a Heterosexual relationship and be common-law which is like marriage, but Homosexuals don't have that same right" also, if you can't marry your partner they're not in titled to your life insurance policy, or benifits at work (health insurance etc) So I believe that if you love someone enough to commit to them for the rest of your life "Married" or "Not married" you should have your right to change your name and be "Mr & Mr" or "Mrs & Mrs"

Trielle  

[shedaisy1_purple]

I am all for gay marriages. I believe if two ppl are in love, why should we stop it based on their gender? Why should we mess with the forces of true love?  

[acg1313]

Tangerine_Monster

I say yes to gay marriage. If a church refuses to marry a gay couple because it goes against their beliefs, they should be allowed to do that. That's freedom of religion. But besides that, I see absolutely no reason why gays should not be allowed to marry.

agree  

[City Pop Barbie]

I'm all for it. I have a gay brother whom I support all the way for, and I'd feel so bad for him if he couldn't be with the one he loves...he's single now, but I'm sure the time will come.

 

[Zephyrkitty]

hitodeman

In terms of legal theory, I'm not sure it's appropriate. The denomination of marriage strictly applies to heterosexual couples. Of course, we could change the legislation, but wouldn't that also change the definition of marriage? It's important to have equal rights for everyone, but there could simply be another type of union with the exact same benefits for gay couples. It wouldn't make the symbolic union any less significant.

The issue with having a separate type of union for gay couples is that, in the past, "separate but equal" hasn't really worked. I'd be fine with everything being referred to as a marriage or a civil union, but separating the two is asking for trouble.

As far as changing the definition of marriage goes, I've never seen the problem with it myself. 'Two consenting adults' shouldn't invalidate any existing marriages, and it's not like marriage has always been between 'one man and one woman' to begin with.  

[Zephyrkitty]

hitodeman

Well, see it this way: "separate but equal" won't please homosexual couples, and "same and equal" won't please those who take to heart the cultural/religious tradition that is marriage. Ideally, the laws should evolve and everyone should adapt, but marriage has traditional implications that, let's say, voting doesn't have (because one could argue that women being granted the right to vote was a change in the law, for instance.)

The problem with 'it's a tradition!' is that traditions change over time. It was traditional to own slaves and for women to be second-class citizens (from cultural and religious aspects), but we don't hold those traditions today. The fact that laws had to be changed for this to happen doesn't mean that the traditional aspects should be ignored.

There's nothing wrong with tradition in and of itself, but if we're writing legislation from it, I'd rather there be some sort of logical justification.

hitodeman

The notion of marriage in western countries as always been between one man and one woman, yes. Harems belong to a different culture. And what is wrong with harems, really? Strictly nothing. It's very possible that a man can't help loving more than one woman, but in our culture we won't grant him the right to marry more than one. That's just how it is.

Sixty years ago, America's definition of marriage was one man and one woman of the same race. Still heterosexual sure, but it's not like the definition of marriage is completely set in stone.
And people argue against gay marriage for religious reasons fairly often, so I think it's fair in those cases to point out that their religion used to define marriage as one man and several women.

I don't have a problem with polygamy; 'two consenting adults' is just closer to the current definition. Change it to 'two or more consenting adults' if you want.

hitodeman

Imagine this: A woman walks on the street shirtless. She gets arrested for exhibitionism, but argues that "men can do it" so it's discrimination. She wants to change the law, which she sees as unfair. Is a topless woman dangerous in any way? Can partial nudity harm anyone? Nope. But culturally (and it's an occidental thing, because everyone knows several populations of the world see nothing wrong about women walking around with bare breasts) we are taught that it's not supposed to be that way. The same way, homosexual couples want to marry because "heterosexual couples can do it" and they argue that it's sexual discrimination. Is it, really?

It's less of sexual discrimination and more of a legal issue, considering that there are a ton of rights given to married couples. I don't think it'd be nearly as big of an issue if it was just about a title, since you could just call the other person your husband/wife/spouse/etc. and be done with it.

There are states that allow women to go topless, but that's getting off-topic.

hitodeman

Personally I'm not against gay marriage. I'm just not sure if I'd fight for it. I live in Canada, so if I had wanted to marry my girlfriend, I probably would have. But if it hadn't been legal? I think I would have understood why, and that's it.

I'm not all that interested in getting married personally, but I feel it's worth fighting for since it does end up coming down to being an issue of rights. But I digress...  

[whatagirlwants]

Fist off I am a Christian and yes my holy text flat out says that gay sex is wrong. However it also says that God loves everyone and so should his followers. God hates sin and only sin. IE he hates murder not murders, rape not rapists, homosexuality not homosexuals. It also says that judgement is the Lords and he is a just God. I am also an American which was founded on the idea of all being equal and sharing the same rights.

That said I would vote yes on gay marriage and even go to a gay wedding. I have problems with "Christians" who are gay and don't feel like its something they need to work on with God. If you belive in a specific faith you should follow it and if a major part of your life is against that faith you either need to change your faith or your lifestyle. However that is between the person and God and justice is the Lords. I have no right to say that someone cannot enjoy the same rights I do here on earth. The consequeces of their sin is eternal and I know that and I have faith in my God. So homosexuals feel free to enjoy my rights.

Sorry for the religious tyrade I just wanted to be clear that those who use God to oppose gay marriage don't really know their God. If they knew his charecter and had faith that he is who says he is then they would have no problems with the occurences of this world because it has nothing to do with them.  

[whatagirlwants]

Kunoichi Aiko

I'm going to get busted for saying this, but I'm I would say no to gay marriage. I don't think there are such things as the gay sexuality. In my opinion, the so-called people who think they are gay, are not really gay in reality. It's just their minds that push them into it.

No, it does not come from birth. It comes from constant thinking about if you are gay or not. Everyone has a little bit of gay in them, and it's up to them to control it. However, it's not that easy to control your own human mind. The human mind can easily get tricked by things you think about.

No, I am not saying that gays are not people. They are people. People are people. It's a natural instinct for humans to think about things beyond the laws of the government, whatsoever. Although it is best to just "keep straight" and do not overthink things. No matter what, there is always going to be people doing bizarre things that their minds tell them to do, so be careful and avoid doing that sort of thing.

Should you need to reply, disagreeing with me, I say do not. There is no point. I respect the fact that everyone has their own opinion. I did not cuss to any pro gays, so I do not see why you should cuss to me. End of rant.

wow I don't even know where to begin. I guess first off have you ever met a gay person and like gotten to know them? youd be surprised but most of them never found the opposite gender sexually attractive. Oh and FYI we are not all a little gay my hubby has never doubted for one secon that he is strait he likes puss end of story. Oh and you respect everyone's oppinion but don't reply. Oh and anyone who does is going to instantly cuss you out. Most like because you define biggot is mys guess but hey look I didn't cuss you out. Gasp.  

[whatagirlwants]

AThousandLullabies

i'm Christian, and in my church, a friend of mine is gay
and everyone is just fine with that!
where in the Bible, I ask, does it say that gay marriage is wrong?
i think that GOD loves love, regardless of who it's with.
if he had a problem with it, there would have said something about it in the Ten Commandments. they say it covers all you need to know.

Leviticus 13
"a man shall not lie with another man as he would with a woman."
there are other referance but this is the only explicit one. The essential act of marriage relationship is sex, you can't have a real marriage without ever having sex so there you go. However God never said he hated anyone just sin and he said that he came to forgive ALL sin because he loves EVERYONE and justice is his. So your right in being pro gay marriage just so long that you don't have a gay marriage without denoucing Christ. am I even making sence...its late?  

[whatagirlwants]

SherlockDoll

I could be biased on this matter since I consider myself at the very least 99% lesbian, but I say "Yay."

Does it hurt others? No. Do straight, married, middle-aged men with a little boy fetishes hurt others? You're damn right they do. Why should these abusive people be allowed to marry another when we (the majority of the gay community) are just as upright and live just as decent loves as others are not? It seems a little silly, in my opinion.

I respect a good person and their religion, mostly due to the fact that a good portion of my family on my father's side are Christians with my father and grandmother are ordained ministers, and I believe that if they do not wish to marry a gay couple then they shouldn't be forced to. Of course there are radical, extremist religious folk that believe this will end up being the case and inevitably cause the downfall of humanity as we know it, there's not much that can be done to change this sort of outlandish thinking, sadly.

Others have mentioned the legal benefits of marriage? One partner in a gay relationship may not visit their spouse in the event that said person is in the hospital simply because they are not family, though they very well may be considered such even though the government may not recognize their deep love and attachment to one another as something real.

I am longing for the day when I can move to another state since I have my doubts that Florida will ever release its ironclad hold on homophobic restrictions that do not allow us to either marry, have anything that might even remotely resemble a marriage, or adopt. Why? Because Crist is a dillhole. -.-

Not Christ, modern day pherasees.  

[whatagirlwants]

joe_is_my_hubby

Nay talk2hand

don't just say nay give a reason. This is a debate not a state your a opinion and leave. And don't tell me to talk to the hand unless you want to admit that your an ignorant biggot with no oppinion not projected on you by the republican party.  

[Zephyrkitty]

froggymama89

AThousandLullabies

i'm Christian, and in my church, a friend of mine is gay
and everyone is just fine with that!
where in the Bible, I ask, does it say that gay marriage is wrong?
i think that GOD loves love, regardless of who it's with.
if he had a problem with it, there would have said something about it in the Ten Commandments. they say it covers all you need to know.

Leviticus 13
"a man shall not lie with another man as he would with a woman."
there are other referance but this is the only explicit one. The essential act of marriage relationship is sex, you can't have a real marriage without ever having sex so there you go. However God never said he hated anyone just sin and he said that he came to forgive ALL sin because he loves EVERYONE and justice is his. So your right in being pro gay marriage just so long that you don't have a gay marriage without denoucing Christ. am I even making sence...its late?

I'm just going to quote Loki on this since he says it better than I can.

[url=http://www.gaiaonline.com/forum/extended-discussion/homosexuality-is-not-a-sin-what-christ-said-and-more/t.22055569_1/]linaloki[/url]

Topic 2, Leviticus: Christian Law?

WARNING: Sarcasm follows through much of this. If you can't see it, then I'm sorry.

To read arguments against the current translations of Leviticus verses used in condemnation of homosexuality, visit post 5.

Leviticus 19:27, NIV

Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.

So. Those that shave are sinning.

Leviticus 19:19, NIV

Keep my decrees.
Do not mate different kinds of animals.
Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed.
Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.

So. Those that crop in cycles, wear polyester cotton mixes, or breed mules are sinning.

Leviticus 15, NIV

The LORD said to Moses and Aaron, "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'When any man has a bodily discharge, the discharge is unclean. Whether it continues flowing from his body or is blocked, it will make him unclean. This is how his discharge will bring about uncleanness:

" 'Any bed the man with a discharge lies on will be unclean, and anything he sits on will be unclean. Anyone who touches his bed must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. Whoever sits on anything that the man with a discharge sat on must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening.

" 'Whoever touches the man who has a discharge must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening.

" 'If the man with the discharge spits on someone who is clean, that person must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening.

" 'Everything the man sits on when riding will be unclean, and whoever touches any of the things that were under him will be unclean till evening; whoever picks up those things must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening.

" 'Anyone the man with a discharge touches without rinsing his hands with water must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening.

" 'A clay pot that the man touches must be broken, and any wooden article is to be rinsed with water.

" 'When a man is cleansed from his discharge, he is to count off seven days for his ceremonial cleansing; he must wash his clothes and bathe himself with fresh water, and he will be clean. On the eighth day he must take two doves or two young pigeons and come before the LORD to the entrance to the Tent of Meeting and give them to the priest. The priest is to sacrifice them, the one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. In this way he will make atonement before the LORD for the man because of his discharge.

" 'When a man has an emission of semen, he must bathe his whole body with water, and he will be unclean till evening. Any clothing or leather that has semen on it must be washed with water, and it will be unclean till evening. When a man lies with a woman and there is an emission of semen, both must bathe with water, and they will be unclean till evening.

" 'When a woman has her regular flow of blood, the impurity of her monthly period will last seven days, and anyone who touches her will be unclean till evening.

" 'Anything she lies on during her period will be unclean, and anything she sits on will be unclean. Whoever touches her bed must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. Whoever touches anything she sits on must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. Whether it is the bed or anything she was sitting on, when anyone touches it, he will be unclean till evening.

" 'If a man lies with her and her monthly flow touches him, he will be unclean for seven days; any bed he lies on will be unclean.

" 'When a woman has a discharge of blood for many days at a time other than her monthly period or has a discharge that continues beyond her period, she will be unclean as long as she has the discharge, just as in the days of her period. Any bed she lies on while her discharge continues will be unclean, as is her bed during her monthly period, and anything she sits on will be unclean, as during her period. Whoever touches them will be unclean; he must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening.

" 'When she is cleansed from her discharge, she must count off seven days, and after that she will be ceremonially clean. On the eighth day she must take two doves or two young pigeons and bring them to the priest at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting. The priest is to sacrifice one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. In this way he will make atonement for her before the LORD for the uncleanness of her discharge.

" 'You must keep the Israelites separate from things that make them unclean, so they will not die in their uncleanness for defiling my dwelling place, which is among them.' "

These are the regulations for a man with a discharge, for anyone made unclean by an emission of semen, for a woman in her monthly period, for a man or a woman with a discharge, and for a man who lies with a woman who is ceremonially unclean.

So. Semen is "unclean". Women on periods must be cast out due to their uncleanliness.

Leviticus 11, NIV

The LORD said to Moses and Aaron, "Say to the Israelites: 'Of all the animals that live on land, these are the ones you may eat: You may eat any animal that has a split hoof completely divided and that chews the cud.

" 'There are some that only chew the cud or only have a split hoof, but you must not eat them. The camel, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is ceremonially unclean for you. The coney, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is unclean for you. The rabbit, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is unclean for you. And the pig, though it has a split hoof completely divided, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you. You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you.

" 'Of all the creatures living in the water of the seas and the streams, you may eat any that have fins and scales. But all creatures in the seas or streams that do not have fins and scales-whether among all the swarming things or among all the other living creatures in the water-you are to detest. And since you are to detest them, you must not eat their meat and you must detest their carcasses. Anything living in the water that does not have fins and scales is to be detestable to you.

" 'These are the birds you are to detest and not eat because they are detestable: the eagle, the vulture, the black vulture, the red kite, any kind of black kite, any kind of raven, the horned owl, the screech owl, the gull, any kind of hawk, the little owl, the cormorant, the great owl, the white owl, the desert owl, the osprey, the stork, any kind of heron, the hoopoe and the bat.

" 'All flying insects that walk on all fours are to be detestable to you. There are, however, some winged creatures that walk on all fours that you may eat: those that have jointed legs for hopping on the ground. Of these you may eat any kind of locust, katydid, cricket or grasshopper. But all other winged creatures that have four legs you are to detest.

" 'You will make yourselves unclean by these; whoever touches their carcasses will be unclean till evening. Whoever picks up one of their carcasses must wash his clothes, and he will be unclean till evening.

" 'Every animal that has a split hoof not completely divided or that does not chew the cud is unclean for you; whoever touches the carcass of any of them will be unclean. Of all the animals that walk on all fours, those that walk on their paws are unclean for you; whoever touches their carcasses will be unclean till evening. Anyone who picks up their carcasses must wash his clothes, and he will be unclean till evening. They are unclean for you.

" 'Of the animals that move about on the ground, these are unclean for you: the weasel, the rat, any kind of great lizard, the gecko, the monitor lizard, the wall lizard, the skink and the chameleon. Of all those that move along the ground, these are unclean for you. Whoever touches them when they are dead will be unclean till evening. When one of them dies and falls on something, that article, whatever its use, will be unclean, whether it is made of wood, cloth, hide or sackcloth. Put it in water; it will be unclean till evening, and then it will be clean. If one of them falls into a clay pot, everything in it will be unclean, and you must break the pot. Any food that could be eaten but has water on it from such a pot is unclean, and any liquid that could be drunk from it is unclean. Anything that one of their carcasses falls on becomes unclean; an oven or cooking pot must be broken up. They are unclean, and you are to regard them as unclean. A spring, however, or a cistern for collecting water remains clean, but anyone who touches one of these carcasses is unclean. If a carcass falls on any seeds that are to be planted, they remain clean. But if water has been put on the seed and a carcass falls on it, it is unclean for you.

" 'If an animal that you are allowed to eat dies, anyone who touches the carcass will be unclean till evening. Anyone who eats some of the carcass must wash his clothes, and he will be unclean till evening. Anyone who picks up the carcass must wash his clothes, and he will be unclean till evening.

" 'Every creature that moves about on the ground is detestable; it is not to be eaten. You are not to eat any creature that moves about on the ground, whether it moves on its belly or walks on all fours or on many feet; it is detestable. Do not defile yourselves by any of these creatures. Do not make yourselves unclean by means of them or be made unclean by them. I am the LORD your God; consecrate yourselves and be holy, because I am holy. Do not make yourselves unclean by any creature that moves about on the ground. I am the LORD who brought you up out of Egypt to be your God; therefore be holy, because I am holy.

" 'These are the regulations concerning animals, birds, every living thing that moves in the water and every creature that moves about on the ground. You must distinguish between the unclean and the clean, between living creatures that may be eaten and those that may not be eaten.' "

So. You can't eat lobster or crawfish. Or pork.

So why just pick at the verses against homosexuals? Oh, by the way. Christians do not have to follow Levitican Law.

Acts 10:10-16, NIV

He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. It contained all kinds of fourfooted animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat."

“Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean." The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean." This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

Suddenly the animals aren't unclean. But, some people don't seem to appreciate the double meaning behind this dream. So, straight from Christ's mouth is this:

Mark 7:14-19, NIV

Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. Nothing outside a man can make him 'unclean' by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him 'unclean.' "

After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. "Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.")

That's right. Christ said it. All the foods are officially clean.

Oh, and here.

Acts 15:24-29, NIV

We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul– men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.

If you are Christian, you are not to follow the Levitican laws, as mentioned in Acts 15. If you are Jewish, either follow all the laws, or just realize that you're not doing so hot as a Jew and don't follow any.

Let us not forget the verses Collosians 2:14 and Hebrews 7:18 either.

Collosians 2:14, NIV

having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross.

Hebrews 7:18, NIV

The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless

Who are we to negate the sacrifice of Christ?

TL;DR Christians don't follow Leviticus, and if you're making this argument you had better be against everything else covered in this book, as well.


I've also seen an argument against Leviticus based on translation and cultural differences, but I don't have that link saved on this computer. I'll post it when I get home, if you're interested.