[S] Breeding Prices [New poll]

[PANK x l3mons]

Thank you, your opinion is noted. You are right, you did not have to answer my purely hypothetical question at all and I am grateful that you chose to give me some further input on where you stand on this issue.

That said, I chose to continue my effort because it has been pointed out to me that perhaps a portion of the huge wave of negativity was generated by my skewed perception of the value of gold relative to Soquili and other shops (as well as my unwillingness to address my concerns under a familiar name but I've already made my stance on that clear). In the interest of fairness I decided to axe my entire suggestion and simply see whether or not the general opinion was attached to my previous suggestion or the very idea of raising prices at all.  

[LOLTERNATIVE]

I get that you feel strongly about your suggestion and you do want to make a difference, or at least attempt to. But I think in the beginning you came across the wrong way and the fact that you're continuing to push after the majority of people have disagreed isn't helping, either. In my opinion, at least. It just seems like you're trying to beat it into us (not by attacking us or what have you, just by constantly.. coming across as 'no this needs to happen it can't not happen it's something we need how has this not been addressed?!?!?!?!?!?').

If it is something that the shop actually needs and staff deem it so, it will happen. If not, then there's nothing you can do. If you do feel strongly about this, send a PM to the Feedback mule addressing your concerns; that account is read by a co-owner of the shop and the topic may be discussed in a staff meeting so you can at least get an answer from them and their stand point.

I think for the mean time, you should take a step back from this thread, let everyone calm down and readdress it in the future; perhaps when breeding slots have picked back up again. c:  

[Looneytaz82]

First off, I want to say that I have read EACH and EVERY post over the last 2 days, and I will ONLY get into the cold hard facts...

1) Breeding and FS prices are pretty standard across all of the BC shops. As many people have suggested, going to ALL of the shop that are comparable (If any) to the work the colorists do and ask for a price increase wold be impossible, just as going into shop that may be far inferior to SOQ asking them to lower their prices would be.

2) Colorists DO get free reign over Breedings, Thus, they can, in most cases, create baskets that are to their liking. They do NOT have that leisure in Customs, so the prices should NEVER be even close in ballpark.

3) The community atmosphere that we have here, and the prices for breedings allows many of us to cover for others. As someone who has done this myself, many times, INCLUDING in the most recent SPLASH event, where I covered ALL of the breedings picked up, I could never have been able to do so if we were looking at raising prices.

4) If YOU feel that the colorists deserve more for their work on your breeding, TIP them. While I have yet to get a breeding slot, You could ask any of the familiar colorists that I have gotten a slot from, I tip because I feel they deserve more than the normal cost.

The bottom line is, instead of raising prices, even thought many of us do think that they deserve much more than they are charging, tip generously to show the colorist on an individual basis that you appreciate it. This way we are not: 1) punishing those that may not be able to afford more than 12k per breeding, 2) hurting the community atmosphere by limiting those that want to help others by covering costs of breedings, and 3) making owners feel more hesitant to give away baskets because they have much more invested in the breeding.  

[AlexiaSilver]

I am sorry.
I absolutely hate getting into any sort of feedback thread conversation, for whatever reason.
There's just too much drama that tends to come with it, and I have no desire to include myself in such things. D:
If anything I tend to come across as passive aggressive with issues that I see.

Like I said, I'm sorry for this ahead of time, but after reading some of these posts, all I could really think is:
This

If I personally had to pay a little more for breedings, I wouldn't expect anything more from the colorists than what I could get today. (In any of the shops that I lurk around in!) ^^ Just a few days ago, I only had 3k on my account. Gaia wouldn't even let me buy a shop item. But if I had to scrounge up another 10, or even 50k for a breeding? So be it. If it makes the colorists more happy or inspired, why not? :3 They still put a lot of time and energy into each and every basket, regardless if it's something that they have more control over! :]

Just because no one voices concerns over issues doesn't mean that they don't exist. :3 I've seen issues pop up in other shops that no one saw as a big deal until they were finally pointed out. I think that it's pretty interesting that only one colorist has posted in this thread, and they didn't openly say that a price change would be unbearably terrible. I think that it all comes down to people being selfish about the things that they can and can not get. :[
Please do not quote or try to continue a conversation with me in here. o uo I have no desire to argue with anybody over pictures of horses right now. <3

 

[PANK x l3mons]

LOLTERNATIVE

I get that you feel strongly about your suggestion and you do want to make a difference, or at least attempt to. But I think in the beginning you came across the wrong way and the fact that you're continuing to push after the majority of people have disagreed isn't helping, either. In my opinion, at least. It just seems like you're trying to beat it into us (not by attacking us or what have you, just by constantly.. coming across as 'no this needs to happen it can't not happen it's something we need how has this not been addressed?!?!?!?!?!?').

If it is something that the shop actually needs and staff deem it so, it will happen. If not, then there's nothing you can do. If you do feel strongly about this, send a PM to the Feedback mule addressing your concerns; that account is read by a co-owner of the shop and the topic may be discussed in a staff meeting so you can at least get an answer from them and their stand point.

I think for the mean time, you should take a step back from this thread, let everyone calm down and readdress it in the future; perhaps when breeding slots have picked back up again. c:

The new poll is me taking a step back. I'm less concerned with arguing my point now than to see if there was a true overwhelmingly negative reaction to the idea itself or to my personal suggested prices. If I was coming at this like it was inevitable my question would have been 'How much should prices rise? 10k, 25k, 100k, etc.'.

And Looneytaz:

I applaud you for reading everything, I have been going cross eyed the last day or so trying to keep up with all the responses.

1. I never suggested anyone other than soq should raise their prices. As I said, it has been made clear to me that my view of how much certain things should be is not the same as everyone else's so I am asking now what they think should change, if anything at all. Thus, the new poll.

2. I have revised my opinion based on the arguments presented to me over the last 24 hours. I don't think they should be ball park. I still think they should be more than 12k, just not how much more.

3. Then don't cover. That is a rising trend that actually annoys me a little bit, which is a personal view and not meant offensively since I have never outright said it to anyone barring now. I keep it to myself because I don't think its that big of a deal in the long run, one way or the other.

4. I do tip them. I would still tip if the prices went up.

I feel as if you are still arguing against my former suggested price scheme which I have to keep reiterating was simply a suggestion meant to illustrate my point. If so, please see the new poll. If not, are you completely opposed to breedings going up even to say, 20k (10k per parent)?  

[Sweenys_Revenge]

Well then, in that case no. No one wants to see the prices raised. The people don't want to pay more for a crap shoot and the staff doesn't want to deal with the bitching. Is it fair that the prices are so low? Probably not. Is life fair? Definitely not. 8k is a probably better price to pay for breedings, but like someone else pointed out, colorists get more credit for breedings than customs, so it evens out in the end.

The staff clearly doesn't have a problem with the prices. I can tell because they either haven't taken this up with management or they have and the issue has been taken care of. So now you're pushing a moot point. It's been shot down. Ideas get shot down. So you had a bad idea, it happens. I had a bad idea here once, and it got shot down. Did I keep pushing it? No. I went home and thought about what I had done.

And though this issue has been addressed and is off topic, I still feel that part of the wave of negativity has been from the fact that you used an anonymous mule. People don't like shadows. It makes us feel icky. We'd probably have been a lot more accepting had you come to us with your face looking more like your face and less like a stranger.

"Well, Honeydew, that's not quite right, and let me show you why."

Instead you went all Alan Moore on us and now we're all going to have to "remember, remember the ninth of September, when prices proposed were shot down. I know of no reason why prices shot down should ever be renowned."

It's not that you hid. People suck, I get it. You should be afraid of people. Sticks and stones will break your bones, but slap a cast on that b***h for four to six weeks and it's good as new. Words reverberate for all eternity in your mind and make you question every move you will ever make form this day forward. I think is about how that goes. I may have taken a few artistic liberties with it.

But you were afraid of us. That's what I think is hurting a lot of others. And it's scaring us, because we have no idea how many of you are behind that avatar. We also don't know who you are, so for all we know, you're someone with real power. For all we know, you can take away all of our hard work here. We're taking as big a risk as you, speaking out against you the way we are. It's like you're some shady organization sending us anonymous flyers and asking us for information. Are you the government? Will you be taking right away if we answer incorrectly? It makes us question your ends, and if the means will justify it.

Say you're standing in line for your school lunch, something that is already a little scary when it comes to what you'll get, but meh, you're hungry and you'll pay. And then some guy in a mask and a cape comes up and asks you to pay an extra fifty buck for something you're already gambling for. It's not just the payment hike you're going to be against. It's the guise the stranger took on. Who are you? Why does this matter to you? Do you even go to school here? Fifty bucks for a plate of noodles which may or may not be the right consistency? I will brown bag it form now on. At least I have quality control.

Same scenario, but here. We all have pony couples that we want babbins for. Sure, it's a bit of a risk when it comes to what we are hoping for but meh, these crazy kids are in love and they want a family. Then someone or someones with a mule comes up and starts asking us to pay out the wazoo for something that we are already gambling on. The answer is no, we're not paying more for this. But the answer is "hell to the ******** no" because you're wearing a mask. Who are you? Why does this matter to you? How long have you been here? 50k for babies? I will custom that from now on. At least I have quality control.

Oscar Wilde put it the best, I think. "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." You couldn't trust us, your friends and fmaily, with the truth? That sort of stings, you know?

That's my two cents on this whole cluster ********.  

[Mobster Goose]

First off it took me a million hours to read all this only to make a post and see a million more replies to catch up on LOL


Second, people wonder why a mule was made for this and the result is the reason. If ANYONE mentions something that is a minority opinion a majority attacks them. If people would learn to comment based on TEXT TYPED and not USER POSTED then there would be no need for privacy mules. It should not matter who posted but what they posted about. >_>


And a lot of you are saying that the mule is forcing your thoughts to change but what about all of you? You are doing the same exact thing but in reverse?

IT DOESNT MATTER WHO THE MULE IS.

Few things I wanted to comment on;
- not EVERYONE is loaded and have funds sitting waiting for soq
- not EVERYONE is unable to afford stuff
- stop using group terms it's annoying xD
- all shops do NOT have to follow the same prices for breedings. There is no rule stating this.
- Do colorists put more work into breedings then they are paid for? Probably yes. Should they get more? I can't say since I'm a colorist.

What I dont understand is, if people mention wanting less edited ponies why does no one make a feedback thread about it? Why comment in everyone elses threads about it?

This thread is involving raising breeding prices and mentioned that customers were a lot. Why does no one suggest lowering customs?

You guys dont make much sense. xD


One more thing.
Yall gotta stop assuming what the staff think. You know what happens when someone assumes. xD
Does anyone ever think we don't change things because it's in the CUSTOMERS interest not our own? Saying staff dont care about payment should never be a point used in an argument. Theoretically a good staff thinks of it's customers interests before their own; and no one but staff know what we have on our plate of things to discuss. It's not like we have meetings all the time so our list can get very long and outdated (as in things added months ago never talked about).


I'll add more when I think about it. I kind of cut thoughts so this wouldn't get so long that I'd forever play catch up LOLOLOL
 

[PANK x l3mons]

Sweenys_Revenge

Hm. You raise a good, if verbose, point. I guess since my being unknown is so scary I will quantify myself some.

I am one person. The 'we/us' thing was to keep a little more anonymity.
I have been a part of the shop for years.
Though I guess I can see it happening with some of the more extravagant incidences in the shop's history, I am not currently a staff member.

I hope that helps to demystify myself a little bit to my 'family' that I did not know I had acquired.

(I am being purposely obtuse, before you say anything. I think the term 'community' is an apt description of Soquili, and B/C in general however 'family' is stretching a bit to apply to a group of people who turn on each other as easily as some of us do...which also is not a dig at this particular instance, surprisingly enough.)  

[Sweenys_Revenge]

PANK x l3mons

No, it doesn't demystify you at all. I have your word. And the word of a stranger... not all that much to go on.

My sister used adjacency and juxtaposition interchangeably once and I turned on her like a dime. I know all of her life and even parts she doesn't know yet. I might not know you at all, so this isn't out of the realm of possibility, at least not for me.

But that's neither here nor there.

The point is you're arguing the point that has been shot down. Just let it die. It's suffered enough, don't you think?  

[Looneytaz82]

PANK x l3mons

And Looneytaz:

I applaud you for reading everything, I have been going cross eyed the last day or so trying to keep up with all the responses.

1. I never suggested anyone other than soq should raise their prices. As I said, it has been made clear to me that my view of how much certain things should be is not the same as everyone else's so I am asking now what they think should change, if anything at all. Thus, the new poll.

2. I have revised my opinion based on the arguments presented to me over the last 24 hours. I don't think they should be ball park. I still think they should be more than 12k, just not how much more.

3. Then don't cover. That is a rising trend that actually annoys me a little bit, which is a personal view and not meant offensively since I have never outright said it to anyone barring now. I keep it to myself because I don't think its that big of a deal in the long run, one way or the other.

4. I do tip them. I would still tip if the prices went up.

I feel as if you are still arguing against my former suggested price scheme which I have to keep reiterating was simply a suggestion meant to illustrate my point. If so, please see the new poll. If not, are you completely opposed to breedings going up even to say, 20k (10k per parent)?

1) I understand you never said this, nor did I say you did. What I am saying is that if your suggestion id to raise the price because of the skill involved in the breedings here (Which is the impression I get) like many others have said, it would be something that would be brought up in other shops as well. My post was simply to show the flip side that shops with breeding prices of 12k that have less skill or talent required should then be asked to lower their prices... Not that your suggestion isn't valid, whether I agree or not.

2) I understand this as well, and again did not target this statement directly at you. Just reiterating facts that I base my opinions on.

3) If it bothers you, or anyone for that matter, I don't think that anyone would object to a PM stating that you'd rather pay for your own, but that the offer was appreciated. I personally feel that in a community atmosphere, kindness is often spread, whether its in a pixilated community, such as this, or your own neighborhood. If someone bought a round of drinks at a bar for everyone, you have the option to say "no thank you".. No difference here.

4) So, whether or not gold is an object, why force everyone (Not that you personally are, but the passing of this idea would) to shell out more when the current prices have had no complaints in the time Soq has been around?

It seems that many of us WOULD be willing to pay more for breedings, but why should it be MANDATORY? If anyone would like to pay more, by all means, give the colorist a million pure if you desire. The ONLY way I see that any individual would be fighting for higher breeding costs is if it went in their pocket personally... In real life, people don't randomly go into Wal-mart and say, "You know what, your bed sheets are really good quality, you guys should charge an extra $10 per set!"
 

[mindsend]

Ok guys, first I gotta put my manager hat on: Guys, agree, disagree, Understand or Missunderstand or misspeak, this is not a place for arguments, name-calling, finger pointing, accusations or Meme posting on EITHER side of the conversation. This is a place where people should be allowed to post without being harassed, and debate should be polite and not a place of battle. I'm not attacking anyone, but really things have been getting a little aggressive sounding in parts.

Lemon's is allowed to use a mule to voice his/her/their/its/zeebledooblebwaperdinger's issues in safety and un-harassed directly with no hard feelings towards them from friends who might disagree, just as you are allowed to ignore they're now removed call for you to contact them about it or feel worried about being claimed as part of an invisible number of people or have things misquoted, manipulated, and used by the invisible speaker for whatever goal it is or generally fear them due to their unknown face, perhaps even paranoia and pointing fingers silently at people who you think might be them just pretending to be someone else. It's part of Nature, not just human nature, to fear the unknown and turn aggressive towards unfamiliar people, just as it is to turn aggressive towards those you've had issues with before or to resent someone for their opinions/feelings and refusing to change your own.

This two sided issue can be solved by a simple act: Live and let Live. Let them be, and if you feel they could cheat their numbers, ignore the numbers provided, and they can continue to live anonymously as possible for someone who, if they did something illegal, could be tracked via IP address by a Moderator if necessary should they do something we need to actually grey/blacklist them for, which they haven't done yet. ^^; Everyone is entitled to their opinions, after all.


NOW ONTO NOT-SHOP OPINION/RULE BUT JUST MY OWN THOUGHTS.

Quote:

Personally.... Gold is not the reason I do breedings. Yes, they are a lot of work, and take a LOT of time that I've had less of lately due to various reasons, from computer problems and shifted schedules and the occasional "uuubh my sinuses are trying to kill me" to trying to judge quality vs style, train our rookies into a good number being Juniors so we can hire on more without creating a glut of freebies (Which people are actually getting tired of since they want more breedings/customs), trying to track colorist progress since everyone works at different paces (Some colorists work slowly and take time to do so if they're to create and do quality work and others can zip through, and this shop has ALWAYS, As long as I've been around, lenient about the time it takes between customs and breedings, though while people used to be willing to wait a year for a custom for certain colorists, lately we've been having people who get antsy if they don't show up within a couple weeks, so progress reports are invaluable.. But sometimes difficult to gather)

Raising the prices wont take away everything that makes it slower. Some people have full time jobs or are fighting to keep a roof over their heads and are too stressed to work on a daily basis, so only work when they've had enough breathing room to wind down enough to feel up to it, and sometimes make a few random ponies to get back into the feel of the template.

I've been tipped on several occasions, and it IS nice and makes the breeding feel appreciated, but so does the basket being RPed or someone squealing happily in thread to have gotten something. The price IS fairly low, yes, but its affordable for YOU guys and with how expensive our customs are due to the laws of supply and demand, I'd rather not take away the funds for the customs by upping flaffle/breeding prices.

To address some things people mentions: Raising prices wouldn't change the ability to add to the design or get wips: though we are no longer as "OMG NO PREVIEWS" as we used to be since most colorists are more productive with livestream, you wouldn't be given any control over the design, and as I mentioned it wouldnt decrease the amount of time it takes to make or post ponies. It wouldn't change the fact that some colorists are working on old credit stuff of non-colorists left over from Last year and after having caught up with Non-credit/freebie stuff they're finally getting around to it. It wouldn't change the fact that Rookies are currently Rookies due to the fact that we had to make the category due to people expecting stellar quality on ones first breeding and some not even wanting to be juniors yet due to how quick AND high quality it is expected of them...

All it would do would cost more. Which wouldn't be fair to YOU guys, and wouldn't really do anything for staff (or, rather, at least me.. Save maybe buy me another item for my avatar that I don't actually need or end up being tossed into some sort of fund for contests)

So I guess over all I'd say its either unnecessary (for myself) or if it IS to be done the price shouldn't increase more than like... 1-1.5k more than it already is (either per person or overall) but even that isn't something I'd personally want.. But its not really something that should be done at all until we finish training our juniors and doing the trial run we're working on to get as many at Junior level as possible so we can get more rookies to try and train them into more juniors so we can get more seniors so we can have more people doing breedings and customs so when one has an issue hopefully not all of them would have one.

Summary: I vote heck no and Why is this even thought to be an issue/problem solution? XD  

[PANK x l3mons]

eidt: this was meant for Sweenys

Well then, we are at an impasse because I do not feel my evolved point has been shot down quite as completely as you seem to think. Yes, I was perhaps a little excessive in my particular estimation of the needful rise of prices. Does this mean I do not think they should still rise in some form? No. It means I agree after some consideration that not everyone can scrounge 500k for a breeding. I agree that it was a hasty proposition on my part to raise prices to such exorbitant levels but I still am not convinced there is not a problem.

Thus, as I said, I have changed the poll to hopefully give a more accurate representation of true feelings without the stigma of numbers like 500k hanging over it. The prices in the poll are much more reasonable, and there is even (still) the option to say you think they should stay the same.

For Looney:

Given that there is the option in the poll to choose '12k, stay the same' and people appear to NOT be choosing this option, I would say that I am not the only person who thinks the prices should rise. I AM NOT A COLORIST FOR SOQUILI. I will gain nothing if this idea of mine gets put into effect.

You want to know why I came upon this idea? Because I took a look at the real world, and gaia. I have watched for years as the amount of gold the site had flowing around at any one time grew exponentially. I watched inflation happen, both in real life and on the internet. I looked at something else I had been in for years and saw what once was perhaps a pittance anyway become little more than pocket change to many. There is more gold on Gaia than ever before, and it shows no signs of stopping as prices for items creep slowly upwards. In 2004 6k could buy a devil tail, or half a breeding (if soq had been around then). Now a devil tail is going for millions and a breeding is still 6k per person.

I don't walk into my local walmart and tell them to raise the price of my linens. They do that themselves. I accept it as a part of life, and internalize it. Then I walk into one of my favorite B/C shops and wonder why they don't do the same. That is where my initial thought came from, and that is why I argue so strongly for it.  

[Sweenys_Revenge]

You're imagining a problem. If a staff member, which you are not, had a problem with this, they would have done something to fix this. You are forcing us all to comply with your wishes and beating us over the head with something we don't want. You're still arguing something that very few agree with. And very few isn't enough to make a change over. And even if it does, which is very unlikely, it will only be 1 or 2k higher. Mindsend even said that it might not happen and she's actual staff. Mobster Goose said that prices might not go up and she's actual staff.

Stop beating is over the skull with an idea that may never come to fruition because you think it needs to happen. It doesn't. Stop beating a dead horse.

As for you comparing Gaia to the real world. Stop. It's not the real world. That's the point. The real world sucks. This place shouldn't suck because it's not the real world. You don't need a 4 million gold devil tail. You need a four dollar carton of milk. That's expensive as all get out, but I'll pay it because I need it. I wont pay 4 million for a devil's tail because I don't need it. That's the point. Yes, inflation happens here, but it doesn't have to effect you. Item too expensive? Don't buy it. Problem solved. Let's have a party.

You're comparing apples and oranges and creating a problem that doesn't need to exist in the first place.  

[Looneytaz82]

PANK x l3mons

For Looney:

Given that there is the option in the poll to choose '12k, stay the same' and people appear to NOT be choosing this option, I would say that I am not the only person who thinks the prices should rise. I AM NOT A COLORIST FOR SOQUILI. I will gain nothing if this idea of mine gets put into effect.

You want to know why I came upon this idea? Because I took a look at the real world, and gaia. I have watched for years as the amount of gold the site had flowing around at any one time grew exponentially. I watched inflation happen, both in real life and on the internet. I looked at something else I had been in for years and saw what once was perhaps a pittance anyway become little more than pocket change to many. There is more gold on Gaia than ever before, and it shows no signs of stopping as prices for items creep slowly upwards. In 2004 6k could buy a devil tail, or half a breeding (if soq had been around then). Now a devil tail is going for millions and a breeding is still 6k per person.

I don't walk into my local walmart and tell them to raise the price of my linens. They do that themselves. I accept it as a part of life, and internalize it. Then I walk into one of my favorite B/C shops and wonder why they don't do the same. That is where my initial thought came from, and that is why I argue so strongly for it.

In looking at the poll just before beginning to type this reply, It appears that 38% would be willing to pay 12, while others would be willing to pay more, myself included. How does 38% of the vote equal "people appear to NOT be choosing this option" . Does that mean that the 38% percent that would be willing to pay the current 12k price be forced out of getting breeding's because they are not willing to pay more?

I understand your opinions and reasoning. I mainly question why you would argue and fight for this when you would not for a real life situation. If it is something that is essential, I am sure the staff would discuss and makes the changes as deemed necessary. Just as you expect Wal-mart to make price increases on their own, why not let the staff do that here?

Its my personal opinion is that the MP inflation is a DIRECT result of GC being introduced. Your dealing with two separate currencies, and to say that because of inflation due primarily to the introduction of GC should force everyone, including those who do not use GC to pay more gold in a shop that uses gold as tender is absurd, whether or not people have ways to gain that. I think like this (probably a bad analogy)... In the real world, its like asking people to pay more for a gallon of milk because a certain area has higher drug problem. Sure drug users have more money, and access to more money than others, but Its not fair to force those who do not have that money to charge more, whether the milk is worth it or not?

I guess what I am trying to say, without sounding like a total douche, is why you would fight so hard to force others to put out more gold for something, when everyone has the option to do that anyway? Again, I understand the logic and reasoning behind it, just not the actions. I know we could probably go back and forth for another 5 pages, and that is not my intent, so I'll end up cutting my replies to this post, in hopes that you see my points, and understand that I'm not attacking you, just showing reasoning for the flip side.