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 Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:40 pm
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:56 pm
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iMito Please note that each arguement for each quote is an arguement from a different standpoint. So, yes they contradict each other somewhat.Ciel Avec Cafeine - Being gay's not natural. So it's man-made? It's artificial? Many species of animals have been documented as having homosexual relationships. Besides, countless products and parts of our day to day lifestyle are not natural, but no one is bitching about eye-glasses, CDs, or chemotherapy. No, but it sex is meant for the soul purpose of survival of the human species, or procreation. Homosexual feelings are caused by a hormonal imbalance, a defect. It's not natural or normal, for that matter. Ciel Avec Cafeine - The Bible says so [Not only in Leviticus]. The Bible also says that in some situations, it's acceptable to kill rape victims because they didn't cry for help loudly enough. The Bible says that it's acceptable to have slaves. The Bible says women should be shunned and in isolation during their period. The list goes on and on. But all of that, including the various passages about homosexuality, are completely irrelevant. In the New Testament, Jesus said that the only laws were "Love God and love thy neighbour." Aside from the 10 Commandments (which follow this principle), all the other hateful things that are in the Old Testament don't apply. Besides, what kind of Christian uses their Bible to be hateful, when being hateful goes against what their savior said?? All those passages have been turned down by the Church as being archaic and not being relevant to our modern culture. However, homosexuality is a universal topic across time and will not and should not change. Plus, we don't use our Bible to be hateful. We're just not condoning what homosexuals are doing and feel that our government should not influenced by evil. Those who do use it to be hateful aren't living out Christ's will. Ciel Avec Cafeine - It's just gross. So? I think eating mussels is gross, so does that mean that people who eat mussels shouldn't be allowed to marry? We don't base laws on what is "gross". I don't have anything against gays, it's just gross and I don't think they should have sex. Ciel Avec Cafeine - It's a choice. Why on earth would ANYONE choose to be gay, when it would get them beat up, kicked out, and isolated? confused Secondly, if they don't choose to be straight, how do other people choose to be gay? There are several reasons to choose to be gay. One is a popularity or bandwagon factor. Everyone else they know is doing it and they just don't feel like they fit in unless they are gay, themselves. As for popularity, being gay does create a popularity factor amongst students. It's cool now-a-days to know a gay kid. Also, there's the economic factor. People choose to be gay because you don't have the children to deal with or pregnancy scares. Plus, they want to take advantage of the marriage benifits of tax breaks. What about teenage rebellion? A goal of a teenager is to be rebellious, and this is against the social norm, a form of rebelling.
Are you stupid!!!?? Being gay is not the cool thing to do. You only see what is in the media and that is lies most of the time. When you look into the real world, its not cool to be gay. It is accepted more, thank God, but its is NOT cool. People get killed everyday for being gay. It should be no surprise that many people are gay, its not a choice, thats like being surprised that there are many straight people, its dumb to think that. Teenage rebellion my butt! Its not a choice, if you choose to be gay you're dumb, because all you get is hate. We come out to be true to ourselves and others like ourselves.And sex is supposed to be able love, not just making babies. Theres plenty of kids in china to have. And the straight people aren't going anywhere, there will always be people making kids, so don't even try that crap about making kids. |
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:01 pm
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 4:52 pm
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IndieUndies00 Are you stupid!!!?? Being gay is not the cool thing to do. You only see what is in the media and that is lies most of the time. When you look into the real world, its not cool to be gay. It is accepted more, thank God, but its is NOT cool. People get killed everyday for being gay. It should be no surprise that many people are gay, its not a choice, thats like being surprised that there are many straight people, its dumb to think that. Teenage rebellion my butt! Its not a choice, if you choose to be gay you're dumb, because all you get is hate. We come out to be true to ourselves and others like ourselves.And sex is supposed to be able love, not just making babies. Theres plenty of kids in china to have. And the straight people aren't going anywhere, there will always be people making kids, so don't even try that crap about making kids.
How about you quit insulting his intelligence? As I've already stated earlier in the thread, MITO IS PLAYING THE DEVIL'S ADVOCATE FOR THE SAKE OF DEBATE. You'd know this if you had actually read through the thread. It's not like it's dozens of pages long.
If you can't make a post without name-calling, don't bother to post. |
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 4:56 pm
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Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:46 pm
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Ohhohoho. I like this topic.
I think some people are missing the point of the topic, from what I've read (which, by the way, is all of the posts). I'll give an example: In my high school for part of our social sciences class, we had to do debates in the class. We were randomly selected with a topic and a side. My topic was "Should Canada stop trading with China because of China's human rights violations?" and my side of the topic was chosen as yes, Canada should stop trading with China. My personal opinion on the matter is very much mixed, but I argued for the side I was given in order to stimulate a good debate.
The topic here is very much the same: Mito wanted to stimulate the guild into having a good debate and discussion for homosexuality/ other sexuality states of being. And because most people in the guild are of the same viewpoint (that is, everyone thinks gays are fabulous and everyone else should agree with them or gtfo), he took on the role of the opposing opinion. Obviously he's not of the opinion that being gay/whatever is bad, but it is interesting and mind opening to look at the discussion from multiple view points.
Calling people names, not cool. Not appreciated. Not helping your point. So get it together, people.
Anyways, arguing both for and against the point "Being Gay is wrong".
iMito - Being gay's not natural.
For - Man and woman exist as separate entities to balance one another out. Continuation of the species is dependent upon our ability to create more people, which can only be done between a man and a woman. Yes there is technology to implant fertilized eggs into a woman's womb without sexual intercourse with a man. But the sperm still comes from a man, and the egg still comes from a woman, and that's the way babies are made. It goes against our biology to be participating in the act of procreation in a way that does not benefit the species. Whether you believe in a god or not is irrelevant; some lifeforms of the world are asexual, some need other species to help them reproduce (bees pollinating flowers), and we as humans need males and females to reproduce with one another. That's natural.
Against - Members of any species of lifeform are bound to be - and designed to be - different. Indeed, it is actually for the betterment of the species that there's many different genetic mutations and different behavioral characteristics. Diversity is life, because if everything is the same, it gets wiped out completely. And in the animal kingdom, not all animals are the same. There are animals that have been observed to be homosexual or bisexual in behaviour. In fact, there's a National Geographic article about the various sexual habits of animals, and some of the human-made controversy behind it:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.html
A small excerpt from the article:
"The bonobo, an African ape closely related to humans, has an even bigger sexual appetite [than some other animals with observed homosexual tendencies]. Studies suggest 75 percent of bonobo sex is nonreproductive and that nearly all bonobos are bisexual."
iMito - The Bible says so [Not only in Leviticus].
For - "Go forth and multiply", says the Bible, in one of the most famous passages. This cannot be done by those of the same sex. As stated above, it's simply not natural, and it's impossible to reproduce with one of the same sex, thus making the sex worthless and completely inappropriate. God made man and woman, not just men, nor just women. And if God commands that homosexuality is do ok, along with incest and adultery which everyone knows are wrong, then it must be a sin.
Against - Putting aside the issue of whether you believe in the Bible or not, the cultural context of ANYTHING written in the Bible needs to be taken into account. In those days, women were fewer than men, and populations needed growth in order to survive, as life spans were far shorter then. So having sex with people of the same sex was really important.
"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is an abomination.(Leviticus 18:22 KJV)
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.(Leviticus 20:13 KJV) "
These are some the most direct references to anything involving homosexuality. Yes the topic says not just Leviticus, but nothing much else in the Bible can be taken quite so directly as being about homosexuality as these passages.
Leviticus has a lot of things listed in it that are "abominations", including shell fish. Again, you have to take into account the cultural, political, and social aspects of the place at the time it was written. It was rather hard to cook shell fish so they would be safe to consume, and many people have allergies to shell fish even today. Thus considering them an abomination must not have been quite a stretch, as they were certainly a potential danger to many people.
So, to, with homosexuality. People needed children in order for humans to survive.
For - Not much more to say.
Against - This one is just silly, I can't even make an argument for this one.
I don't like spiders. In fact, I hate them, with a fiery burning passion. The sight of them fills me with shivers and quivers and I would literally rather eat a scorpion than touch a spider. But I don't want them all to disappear off the face of the planet. I'd just rather not see them. So I don't bug them.
It's hard to get over the ickiness factor, but you know, we've just gotta suck it up.
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Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:53 pm
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Taeryyn IndieUndies00 Are you stupid!!!?? Being gay is not the cool thing to do. You only see what is in the media and that is lies most of the time. When you look into the real world, its not cool to be gay. It is accepted more, thank God, but its is NOT cool. People get killed everyday for being gay. It should be no surprise that many people are gay, its not a choice, thats like being surprised that there are many straight people, its dumb to think that. Teenage rebellion my butt! Its not a choice, if you choose to be gay you're dumb, because all you get is hate. We come out to be true to ourselves and others like ourselves.And sex is supposed to be able love, not just making babies. Theres plenty of kids in china to have. And the straight people aren't going anywhere, there will always be people making kids, so don't even try that crap about making kids. How about you quit insulting his intelligence? As I've already stated earlier in the thread, MITO IS PLAYING THE DEVIL'S ADVOCATE FOR THE SAKE OF DEBATE. You'd know this if you had actually read through the thread. It's not like it's dozens of pages long. If you can't make a post without name-calling, don't bother to post.
I am not required to read the whole thread. |
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Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:55 pm
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Taeryyn This is too easy. - Being gay's not natural. So it's man-made? It's artificial? Many species of animals have been documented as having homosexual relationships. Besides, countless products and parts of our day to day lifestyle are not natural, but no one is bitching about eye-glasses, CDs, or chemotherapy. - The Bible says so [Not only in Leviticus]. The Bible also says that in some situations, it's acceptable to kill rape victims because they didn't cry for help loudly enough. The Bible says that it's acceptable to have slaves. The Bible says women should be shunned and in isolation during their period. The list goes on and on. But all of that, including the various passages about homosexuality, are completely irrelevant. In the New Testament, Jesus said that the only laws were "Love God and love thy neighbour." Aside from the 10 Commandments (which follow this principle), all the other hateful things that are in the Old Testament don't apply. Besides, what kind of Christian uses their Bible to be hateful, when being hateful goes against what their savior said?? - It's just gross. So? I think eating mussels is gross, so does that mean that people who eat mussels shouldn't be allowed to marry? We don't base laws on what is "gross".
- It's a choice. Why on earth would ANYONE choose to be gay, when it would get them beat up, kicked out, and isolated? confused Secondly, if they don't choose to be straight, how do other people choose to be gay?
damn straight!! we don't choose! we are! |
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Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:02 am
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IndieUndies00 Taeryyn IndieUndies00 Are you stupid!!!?? Being gay is not the cool thing to do. You only see what is in the media and that is lies most of the time. When you look into the real world, its not cool to be gay. It is accepted more, thank God, but its is NOT cool. People get killed everyday for being gay. It should be no surprise that many people are gay, its not a choice, thats like being surprised that there are many straight people, its dumb to think that. Teenage rebellion my butt! Its not a choice, if you choose to be gay you're dumb, because all you get is hate. We come out to be true to ourselves and others like ourselves.And sex is supposed to be able love, not just making babies. Theres plenty of kids in china to have. And the straight people aren't going anywhere, there will always be people making kids, so don't even try that crap about making kids. How about you quit insulting his intelligence? As I've already stated earlier in the thread, MITO IS PLAYING THE DEVIL'S ADVOCATE FOR THE SAKE OF DEBATE. You'd know this if you had actually read through the thread. It's not like it's dozens of pages long. If you can't make a post without name-calling, don't bother to post. I am not required to read the whole thread.
you are if you want to understand anything. don't call someone stupid when you make some mistakes your self. and as i've said we don't choose we are. |
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Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 1:17 am
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Mikael Satsuya IndieUndies00 Taeryyn IndieUndies00 Are you stupid!!!?? Being gay is not the cool thing to do. You only see what is in the media and that is lies most of the time. When you look into the real world, its not cool to be gay. It is accepted more, thank God, but its is NOT cool. People get killed everyday for being gay. It should be no surprise that many people are gay, its not a choice, thats like being surprised that there are many straight people, its dumb to think that. Teenage rebellion my butt! Its not a choice, if you choose to be gay you're dumb, because all you get is hate. We come out to be true to ourselves and others like ourselves.And sex is supposed to be able love, not just making babies. Theres plenty of kids in china to have. And the straight people aren't going anywhere, there will always be people making kids, so don't even try that crap about making kids. How about you quit insulting his intelligence? As I've already stated earlier in the thread, MITO IS PLAYING THE DEVIL'S ADVOCATE FOR THE SAKE OF DEBATE. You'd know this if you had actually read through the thread. It's not like it's dozens of pages long. If you can't make a post without name-calling, don't bother to post. I am not required to read the whole thread. you are if you want to understand anything. don't call someone stupid when you make some mistakes your self. and as i've said we don't choose we are.
Someone understandably gets mad and everyone freaks out. Chill geezus. Is it that hard to just say don't do that and move on? |
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Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 7:37 am
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Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 8:22 am
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IndieUndies00 Taeryyn IndieUndies00 Are you stupid!!!?? Being gay is not the cool thing to do. You only see what is in the media and that is lies most of the time. When you look into the real world, its not cool to be gay. It is accepted more, thank God, but its is NOT cool. People get killed everyday for being gay. It should be no surprise that many people are gay, its not a choice, thats like being surprised that there are many straight people, its dumb to think that. Teenage rebellion my butt! Its not a choice, if you choose to be gay you're dumb, because all you get is hate. We come out to be true to ourselves and others like ourselves.And sex is supposed to be able love, not just making babies. Theres plenty of kids in china to have. And the straight people aren't going anywhere, there will always be people making kids, so don't even try that crap about making kids. How about you quit insulting his intelligence? As I've already stated earlier in the thread, MITO IS PLAYING THE DEVIL'S ADVOCATE FOR THE SAKE OF DEBATE. You'd know this if you had actually read through the thread. It's not like it's dozens of pages long. If you can't make a post without name-calling, don't bother to post. I am not required to read the whole thread.
No, you aren't, but this is an extended discussion subforum, and the expectations are higher here. That's why we set up that sticky at the top of the subforum. I shouldn't have to ask you not to resort to using insults. Consider my other post your first warning. Mito is a crewmember, and it's been stated at least twice in the thread that he is playing the devil's advocate.
If I seem exasperated, it's because I am. This subforum was set up so people could actually debate, but instead I have to play referee all the time because people keep flying off the handle and attacking Mito, rather than the arguments he offered. |
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Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:03 pm
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iMito Contradictory arguements to take into account: - Being gay's not natural. - The Bible says so [Not only in Leviticus]. - It's just gross. - It's a choice.
 Alright, I'll do this in chronological order:
~"Being gay is not natural"
While all animals have the "tools", so to speak, to reproduce and keep their species alive, and that is natural, I believe that being gay is natural as well. Some girls may experiment in high school and make out with other girls, claiming their lesbian. Some guys may get intimate with other guys just for the sake of pleasuring one another. Those are not natural, since doing those things are of choices in the brain. On the flip side, there are real gays and lesbians out there that have something in their DNA showing that their brain tells them that they are attracted to the same sex. While that may not seem natural, since the majority of human beings are heterosexual, a change in a person's DNA is completely natural, whether it be physically or psychologically.
~"The Bible says so."
Quite honestly, the Bible is one of the most unreliable sources of texts to refer to. Due to the fact that the books were written in a language of very long ago, a lot of the words are lost in translation or are twisted around. The original text itself was written by holy men, and can therefore be considered biased for a few reasons. The first is that it was written by someone that is religious. Because of that, while writing down what supposedly happened to someone else the man could've had a "message from God" telling him something else, and then can alter the text to fit around his own "epiphany". Also, because it is a man it is biased because back then women were treated as property so many books talk about how women cannot do this and that.
In the United States, we follow along with the laws of the government. In the Constitution, the First Amendment Primer states that there will be a separation of Church and State. Of course, our government hasn't done such a good job with that since the Pledge of Allegiance has the words "One nation under God" and the currency has the words "In God We Trust" written on the back; nevertheless, there is no way to define that being homo- or bisexual is wrong without bringing up any religious texts. (This part mostly is towards how marriages are supposedly only between a man and a woman)
~"It's just gross"
Says you, Devil's advocate! Unless you're homophobic, there is nothing wrong with seeing two men holding hands or giving each other a peck on the lips. If you are homophobic, then just look the other way. Just because you don't like seeing gay PDA doesn't mean they can't do it.
If talking about sex-related things, then you shouldn't even be thinking about it. Humans like to be pleasured, so gays and lesbians just have their own way of being pleasured. Even so, many heterosexual couples will choose to have a**l sex, which is the only form of penetrative sex for gays. Why? Probably because it's a different kind of pleasure than vaginal intercourse. If you want to know more, look it up since I can give you no further details on that. With lesbians, some books on sex say that lesbian sex is far more pleasurable than straight sex. Again, I know nothing further on this topic so I will have to leave it at that.
~"It's just a choice."
I've talked about that with the first statement I've quoted. Furthermore, we heterosexuals choose to be straight. We choose not to have intimate relationships with those of the same sex. Is that not a choice? Other animals may very well choose to display gay behaviours; some have, such as a species of monkey(I forget the name) in which the males will participate in penile fencing to the point of ejaculation and the females will mount each other much like the classic copulation pose.
If any of you are grossed out by some of the things I have said, be thankful I didn't go further into detail. Besides, I don't sugarcoat facts unless I'm talking to someone much younger than I am to the point that they are not mentally ready for it i.e. a child. |
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Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:52 am
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Taeryyn This is too easy. - Being gay's not natural. So it's man-made? It's artificial? Many species of animals have been documented as having homosexual relationships. Besides, countless products and parts of our day to day lifestyle are not natural, but no one is bitching about eye-glasses, CDs, or chemotherapy. - The Bible says so [Not only in Leviticus]. The Bible also says that in some situations, it's acceptable to kill rape victims because they didn't cry for help loudly enough. The Bible says that it's acceptable to have slaves. The Bible says women should be shunned and in isolation during their period. The list goes on and on. But all of that, including the various passages about homosexuality, are completely irrelevant. In the New Testament, Jesus said that the only laws were "Love God and love thy neighbour." Aside from the 10 Commandments (which follow this principle), all the other hateful things that are in the Old Testament don't apply. Besides, what kind of Christian uses their Bible to be hateful, when being hateful goes against what their savior said?? - It's just gross. So? I think eating mussels is gross, so does that mean that people who eat mussels shouldn't be allowed to marry? We don't base laws on what is "gross".
- It's a choice. Why on earth would ANYONE choose to be gay, when it would get them beat up, kicked out, and isolated? confused Secondly, if they don't choose to be straight, how do other people choose to be gay?
I was going to post my own response to the questions presented, but thanks to Taeryyn I don't have to. You pretty much stated what I would have said anyhow. Although I would have also added a comment by a certain Jewish commedian who may or may not have been in the last season of Last Comic Standing on angels also not being natural. XD |
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