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Slave Xaccheus rolled 3 8-sided dice:
6, 4, 3
Total: 13 (3-24)
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Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:44 pm
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Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:48 pm
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Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:31 pm
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Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:21 am
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Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:18 am
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Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:31 am
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There are underground ruins and the tunnels of burrowing animals (those that haven't collapsed yet), as well as places like Undertyr. However, there's no massive miles deep cave network connecting everything together like in Toril or Oerth (Defilers are bad for the structural integrity of the earth).
Yaun-Ti have never been an underground race, I don't see why they'd start being so in Dark Sun. There's no mention of Beholders or Mind Flayers in any official Dark Sun material, and I think their existence would be unlikely (unless you're using something from SpellJammer as a reason for them being there).
As for Orcs, they've never been the brightest creatures out there, and only 1st ed ever mentioned them living underground. The chances of any of them surviving the Cleansing Wars is unlikely, and any that did have probably long since perished. I could see, maybe, someone with orc blood, but not even enough to qualify as half-orc.
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Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:27 pm
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I never said that the whole world was burnt. A quote I found while looking for info on Dark Sun underdark was "Skip Williams said not in particular. There's underground caves and stuff, but no massive miles deep cave network connecting everything together like in Toril or Oerth. Defilers are bad for the structural integrity of the earth." (Found in the same topic you linked) Yes, there's cave systems and underground ruins, but not an Underdark per se.
As for the intelligence of Orcs, in D&D they are below average human intelligence. What they have in other games/books is irrelevant for the discussion. Yes, you can get the occasional bright orc, but those aren't exactly common.
As for being subterranean, while you'd think they would be, both 2nd and 3rd ed have them listed as living above ground, despite their light sensitivity. 1st ed did have them living below ground 75% of the time, but I'm seeing this as taking up residence in ruins, dungeons, and near-surface caves rather than deep caves like the underdark.
Either way, it's GM preference whether they want Uyness to have missed a few Orcs that took refuge underground. Though given the length of time she spent on the cleansing and the fact that divination magic would be able to tell her if there were any orcs still alive, I doubt she did a half-a** job. Also, there'd have been a least some encounters with them long before now if they still existed.
Also, the link concerning Illithid in Athas actually says the opposite, that there aren't any unless the DM specifically wants to add them (though they mentioned reasons for them being their as having followed the Gith, hence the SpellJammer reference).
Final note: DM can of course change anything they want to suit the way they want their game to be, I'm simply going of what is canon for the setting and the system.
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Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:39 pm
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Most likely, any major Underdark system would be inaccessible from the surface, and quite possibly at least partially collapsed from things like earthquakes. I'll agree that it's possible that a small tribe or two might have manage to take refuge underground in an attempt to hide from the cleansing. However, despite the Champions being flawed, Uyness is listed as having complete her cleansing rather than having failed, and as I mentioned before, divination magic would have, at the very least, let her know if there were any orcs left alive. As to the half-orcs, while I'll agree those might have survived the cleansing, most likely the orcish blood would by now be so thin as to be insignificant. Also, if you're referring to this for your info on half-orcs, this is non-canon material created by someone not associated with WotC/TSR, and is simply given as a 'plausible' means of having half-orcs in Athas.
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Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:22 pm
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Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:25 pm
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:32 am
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:01 am
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Er, about orcs: They have a penalty to int, so the normal orc will be spectacularly dumb. Dumb on the level of "one skill point per level" unless they go rogue. As for inspiration, well, Lord of the Rings had them, which is where the D&D orcs came from*. D&D did not come from Warhammer, just the opposite: Warhammer was made as a parody/pastiche wargame, heavilly influenced by D&D, even the spell system is taken from D&D/Chainmail. 1st ed has clunky mechanics because it was essentially a pile of houserules applied to the original D&D, which was not clunky, and was VERY rules light. (More correctly, it was a bunch of supplemental rules for 'od&d' gathered from all different books and put into one book.) So to say orcs are not dumb is just wrong. According to D&D, they are. The nature of the game means that while the normal orc will be dumb as hell, there are smart ones, and they become wizards or clerics, or just smart warriors who rise to the top and are able to lead their tribe well. But to use them as evidence that orcs are not dumb, well, that's just silly.
As for their environments, well, according to both the 3.5 monster manual and the SRD, they have one, and only one environment: Temperate Hills.
*From Chainmail, the game D&D came from, orcs fought as 'heavy foot', and their description runs: ORCS: Besides reacting to light in the same manner as Goblins do (after all Orcs are nothing more than over-grown Goblins), Orcs are quarrelsome and factious. According to the best authority, there are at least five kinds (tribes or perhaps clans) of them. These are: 1) Orcs of the (Red) Eye, 2) Orcs of Mordor, 3) Orcs of the Mountains, 4) Orcs of the White Hand, and 5) Isengarders. It can therefore be assumed that if there are two or more units of Orcs, they will be from differing bands. If Orcs of different kinds approach within a charge move of each other, and they are not meleed by the enemy, they will attack each other unless a score of 4 or better is rolled on an "Obedience die." There are giant Orcs which fight as Armored Foot and have a Point Value of 2½. yes, I have the chainmail booklet. Yes, I went looking through that stuff to see who was right. Yes I had nothing better to do... gonk
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