Serious step-child problem....need advice!

[Chimaria]

Without getting into too much detail...i would like advice on how to handle this. i have experience, but really would like another opinion (for balance)

This 14.5 year old has a history of lying about everything, lazy, bad grades, excuse queen.
She told her father and i that she was asked to the school dance. She told us that he offered to buy her ticket but she declined saying she needed to ask her parents(mom&dad) and would purchase her own ticket. Her father asked her plans (go to friends house, get ready, meet boy at dance) he stated he wanted contact info of driving parent. all week she could not provide the name, number of either friend, parent or confirmation from the boy (now he is sick, suspended or needs to be somewhere else). she asked her mom (who is going thru bankruptcy & losing the house) for 40$. she told her mom that she need $ for both tickets.
i come across a note (3 days after she said she was asked to the dance) stating she was freaked out about the dance because she still hasn't asked the boy to the dance!!!

okay obvious case of fantasy and lying. she also obvious really likes this boy and is willing to create a world where he likes her (he hasn't given her his cell nor has he returned any calls or attempts to communicate)...

it's sad...how would any of you handle this?  

[Wixandrettas]

First of all.. the red flag that comes up for me is, where if she has a history of lying... I wouldnt bank on her using the 40.00 for two tickets to a dance. She has been evasive all along not giving the information about who-what-when-where-how... that right there speaks alot.

By the way, since when does a school dance cost $40.00 for tickets for a couple? Unless she was planning to go to a Junior or Senior Prom, I know the regular dances tend not to be more than 5 or 6 bucks tops around my neck of the woods.

Seems to me there needs to be some sort of professional intervention. Lying, lack of motivation, failure to thrive in school, cant hold herself accountable for her actions. By chance, did she ever receive counseling through the divorce? She seems to be struggling with her self-esteem here (boy), doesnt seem to want to be honest in her actions or with words (perhaps divorce-related), looking for the wrong kinds of attention (failing in school and coming up with excuses)...

I would really be interested in learning more about whether or not she received counseling as a result of the divorce. Most divorce courts will require couseling when kids are involved if there were issues stemming from the divorce.  

[Patron with a Mission]

I would agree; counseling would help intensely. But I should warn you, be ready for a long and drawn out battle. Teens are not as adaptable as kids are, and thus are going to be harder to deal with.

I suggest family and individual counseling, as all angles need to be seen and address. Good luck on this!  

[Azure Alexea]

Alexandretta

First of all.. the red flag that comes up for me is, where if she has a history of lying... I wouldnt bank on her using the 40.00 for two tickets to a dance. She has been evasive all along not giving the information about who-what-when-where-how... that right there speaks alot.

By the way, since when does a school dance cost $40.00 for tickets for a couple? Unless she was planning to go to a Junior or Senior Prom, I know the regular dances tend not to be more than 5 or 6 bucks tops around my neck of the woods.

Seems to me there needs to be some sort of professional intervention. Lying, lack of motivation, failure to thrive in school, cant hold herself accountable for her actions. By chance, did she ever receive counseling through the divorce? She seems to be struggling with her self-esteem here (boy), doesnt seem to want to be honest in her actions or with words (perhaps divorce-related), looking for the wrong kinds of attention (failing in school and coming up with excuses)...

I would really be interested in learning more about whether or not she received counseling as a result of the divorce. Most divorce courts will require couseling when kids are involved if there were issues stemming from the divorce.

I agree on both fronts, there is no telling that she even planned on going to this dance. And the price does seem pretty high. She didn't say she would pay for his ticket so $40 for just one ticket? Sounds more like a concert cost to me or some sort of party cash fund.
Therapy would help her to be sure but all of those traits you've described about her could be easily be caused by drug and/or alcohol abuse. You'd be surprised at how easy that sort of thing can be hidden if you've got a friend with dead beat parents.
Personally I'd confront her about what her plans for that night really are, why she lied about it etc or if she's more likely to tell the truth to her father have him do it. And watch for signs of depression or substance abuse in her.  

[ThisEmptySoul]

I think assuming there could be substance abuse based solely on the information given is pretty out there and reminds me of overprotective parents constantly asking their kids if they're on drugs every time they do something that the parent doesn't approve of or understand. Remembering being a teen myself {as that was not as long ago for me as some others} I can tell you that if my parents had asked me if I was on drugs, or even tried to squeeze the answer out of me without asking directly every time I did something "out of the ordinary", it would have only made me feel annoyed and less likely to be open with them. Actually, I'd even go as far as to feel insulted.

I know this is not the case for everyone and sometimes it might be good to ask, but in most cases they will be less trusting of you if you're snooping around their room looking for drugs. 14 is also kind of young to start getting into such things... especially as a female.

I agree that it's pretty obvious that she doesn't want that money for dance tickets, but that doesn't mean she wants to buy drugs with it. My sister stole a lot of money when she was a teen, and she didn't do drugs with it. She just used it to buy herself a lot of random stuff and flash it around her friends to impress them. It bothered her that we were poor, so she tried to make herself look rich by any means necessary. To this day she will deny that she stole it, however.

Unfortunately, I don't really have advice for this specific situation other than not letting her go anywhere unless she provides viable contact information and getting confirmation from other parents. Therapy as suggested above could be a good idea for a more prolonged fix to her personal issues, but it could also make things worse in some cases. You'd have to judge for yourself if it is right for your situation. A liar never wants to admit when they lie, and "butting in" too much can make her act out more out of spite.  

[Chimaria]

yes..thank you everyone...

she has been to counseling. ever since her mom pushed psych care (more than medical/dental) she uses the "depressed"card more often than not. She was put in a girl group for a short time and was promptly asked to leave. the therapist said that she was "grandstanding" & "would interrupt only talk about what she wanted"...she wasn't mature enough for that type of group. unfortunately her mom will only allow her to go to therapy sessions only if she takes her. (?!) & mom almost always seems to be too busy or forgets! *sigh*

i agree with all of you abouth the other 20$ it is probably for food. she's 5'7" and 215#. She just got her mom to get her an ipod touch (32G) & her counselor suggested that she apply for "free lunch" (?!) because of the financial hardship. Her father and I provide plenty of food/lunch for her (apparently not enough). She did this in elementary & middle school (she begged the lunch ladies for food - that's what the lunch ladies told us).

so apparently this dance is in SF! just found that out!! for Freshmen?! A winter formal?! maybe that is why is cost so much! which is so stupid since there are so many more "dance" sites they can use that are not far away! anyhow...

would any of you advice on straight up confrontation on the "date" or subtle tactics "we would like to meet the boy..."???

thanks for pointing out/reminding how aggravating it is to be grilled by parental units. the dad & i will keep that in mind.

i super duper appreciate your points of view!!  

[Veddhartha]

I don't have children of my own and I'm too quite young to remember how it was back when I was about that age. Difference is that I was pretty "nice" kid.

Still your question got my attention and raised an opinion. I'd say that you do need to seriously sit down with her and have her to put all the cards on the table and bring the boy to meet you. Don't just hint, ask straight. With this case, she should not be going nor getting any money for it if she can't prove herself. She seems to be a girl who has gotten too much leash - I'm not pointing anyone, these things just happen with divorces - or thinks so.

If possible, try to get all the information yourself first. Ask the school or whatnot. Demand details, names and facts. Then you know and you don't have to guess and be surprised afterwards. And she'll have to learn that lying doesn't help her. Being caught hands red (is that the saying?) makes her unable to turn it inside her head to anything else and continue as before.

She might hate it at that moment, but it is needed. I have the feeling, that she may be thinking that she's in control of the situation. And in a one way, she is. As long as she can try to squirm around she will do it and cause trouble. This should become also authority question, most of the teens do rebel, but they need the adult to their lives too to say 'don't be stupid'.

Correct me if there is need, fill in the blanks. But those were the things that I've encountered even in my own family and with friends same age. Parents do need to be strict with these, early enough too. 14-year old doesn't think what s/he does or what it causes. Its just fun and games to most of them. =/  

[Chimaria]

Oh Veddhartha...

You are so on point. When I got home last night I was informed that her mother felt it was okay for a 14 year old to stay out on a first date until MIDNIGHT! eek

The heck! I was 17 when I was allowed the Cinderella hour!

"...try to get all the information yourself first. Ask the school or whatnot. "

Yes inquiring outside of her is the only way to get the truth. & play twenty questions to get something close to the truth.
Her father and I have had multiple sit downs with her (past 6 years). I informed her (number of times over the past 3 years) that truth, honesty is important to trust and if she wants keys to a car...these are just a couple of the items needs (grades, responsibility...). still...nothing...she's practicaly pathological in her lying patterns.
I'm hoping for some serious therapy...but she's not ready. And with her indulgent mother, it is sooo hard to create incentives. Bri told us...when she was 6 years old "if you don't get it for me...mommy will!" and it hasn't changed.  

[Patron with a Mission]

Chimaria

Oh Veddhartha...

You are so on point. When I got home last night I was informed that her mother felt it was okay for a 14 year old to stay out on a first date until MIDNIGHT! eek

The heck! I was 17 when I was allowed the Cinderella hour!

"...try to get all the information yourself first. Ask the school or whatnot. "

Yes inquiring outside of her is the only way to get the truth. & play twenty questions to get something close to the truth.
Her father and I have had multiple sit downs with her (past 6 years). I informed her (number of times over the past 3 years) that truth, honesty is important to trust and if she wants keys to a car...these are just a couple of the items needs (grades, responsibility...). still...nothing...she's practicaly pathological in her lying patterns.
I'm hoping for some serious therapy...but she's not ready. And with her indulgent mother, it is sooo hard to create incentives. Bri told us...when she was 6 years old "if you don't get it for me...mommy will!" and it hasn't changed.

-ponders-

Given my background in psychology, this does sound like some hints of narcissism. Either that or she's spoiled as heck, and you're going to either break her out of it or she'll be so in deep that there wouldn't be any help.

You might want to ask the therapist to take a approach that counters her possible narcissism. Good luck!  

[Chimaria]

Dameon...
Narcissism...l
ack of empathy (unless it gets attention), total dependence on others, all means meet her ends (exclusively), somewhat sadistic at times (with a smile) endlessly looking in the MIRROR(but she is a teenager)...huh? I must ponder your advice...also! thank you!!! *gears & marbles starting to crank & roll*  

[Wixandrettas]

Outside communication with those who are around her is excellent..

I want to add this suggestion:

Where its clear Mom has not fulfilled her obligation to see to it that this child receives psychological care, you and your husband have the right to communicate to the counselor your concerns as well.

Clearly there is instability in the therapy sessions. If there is a standing court order in place as a result of the divorce and/or custody case that states the child must attend therapy, you have the right to communicate to the counselor that you do not feel the biological mother is holding the responsibility of bringing this child to her therapy sessions.

Today's day in age, the parent who is required to bring the child to therapy sessions can be held responsible for 'non-compliance'... Matter of fact, I just had to do an appeal on a Mental Health claim yesterday, it was a Crisis Intervention that required the child to be admitted. Without disclosing identities: Mom tried every which way in her power to disregard everything the child was reporting to the on-call Therapist and ER Physician. They actually had to bodily remove Mom because she was manipulating her daughter... it was bad from what I had to read in order to do an appeal letter.

I dont know the whole background here, like the rest of us, but... If Mom is noncompliant, she could be held liable in a court of law. ESPECIALLY if she is court-ordered to bring her to counseling. Even if you are not responsible for the primary care via psychological sessions, you can still communicate these very valid concerns.... they certainly have merit in my books.

Keep us all posted if you feel comfortable... We are here for you hun... keep your chin up.. heart heart heart  

[Chimaria]

Alexandretta - thanks...there are more examples of when the father could have gotten the mom in trouble for a variety of reasons (usually because he was struggling to keep an open line of communication with her).
We will try to get the daughter into counseling again. we will gently remind the mom she has an obligation/responsibility to her child.
we do have communication with the therapist. She is appalled and saddened at the events up to Nov 2008. (weight gain 18+ # in >3 weeks, mom "forgot" appt..etc) We were able to arrange for the therapist to call our house a few weeks ago. so she could have at least a talk with the daughter. The dad went outside, but i am not sure that Bri felt she had total privacy.

heart Everyone thanks again...appreciate the feedback...it's really nice to bounce this stuff around with others. heart  

[Sweet_lil_tomboy]

I must say that some good advice has been given so far. I'd be interested in knowing how long the parents have been divorced and how long after that divorce you came into the picture, and whether or not her grades were good before the two of you got married.
I am a divorced mom of two, remarried and am now a step-mom myself.
My daughter went through a rebellous stage after her father and I divorced. Her grades suffered, her school attendance dropped and she found herself in juvenille court for both truancy and criminal charges. It was a difficult time for all of us. But she pulled through. My suggestion is this. On a day when neither of you have plans, take her out for a girls day out. Talk to her about the positives you see in her and let her know that you are there for her. Let her know as a friend that you are aware of her behavior and that it is unacceptable. As I see it there could several possible causes for her behavior but accusing her of something she may or may not be doing without proof will only drive a wedge between you.
Take her to an eye doctor, bad eye sight could explain the tiredness, the lack of good grades and may even reveal a learning disability such as dislexia. If she does need glasses, give her the option at this point to contacts if they are available. As she is a young lady it is also possible that she is going through some hormonal changes ask her how she is feeling.
And last but not least, find out what her interest are and she if there is something she would like to participate in. For my daughter is was her church youth program but for yours it may be sports or dance or anything and work together with your husband to find ways of helping occuping her time in a more productive manner. Last but not least let her know that your job is not to be enemy but that there are rules to being able to go out with friends, and that as long as she sticks to those rules she will have the freedom and trust to socialize with her friends as time warrants it.
To let you know my daughter graduated high school with a 3.96 gpa and is now serving proudly in the US Army.  

[Chimaria]

wow Sweet...thank for the light at the end of the tunnel story. I hope for the a similar result.
since you asked...The parents were divorced several years before the Dad and I met. We technically are not married, but have been together for almost 9 years. We have been struggling with her grades since 5th grade. Largely due to her mother refusing (i mean refusing in every sense of the word) to follow through with homework, keeping her from school for any little reason, getting her to school late, teaching her daughter to make excuses (to date is a chronic problem) & placing blame on the father whenever convenient. Partly due to the daughter who is absolutley lazy unless it's something she wants, lies "because it's convenient", deceives to get her own way and practicing everything her mother taught her right down to the "sigh".
I have had 1:1 conversations endlessly. Supportive (available when you need an ear, your dad is upset b/c...) and firm (I need to hear the truth, don't steal from me...). My 20 yo daughter has taken her aside and said "call me if you need to talk to someone". When it comes to father/ daughter taking sides. I am mostly neutral. if the father is out of line (way pissed off) i'll help defend her...when i know she is BS'ing us i'll take the "listen to your father" role. those examples are very generalized. She has the support and understanding of our neighbors and a young couple we know takes are once a week to youth group meetings (she enjoys those). We won't mention the endless rewards/bribes we presented to her for years if she would just get C's (amusement park trips w/ a friend, cruises, $, etc)
I also keep reminding her dad, that though she is all of the above, she could be a lot worse (more physical, more verbal (more shouting), behaviorally out of line) so there are parts of her that are restrained, considering she is a young teenager.
oh and at a recent school physical she has the eyes of a hawk and hearing of a bat...scarey!! She loves to read and is given plenty of time for that.

*yipes!* again...thanks for your story...and congratulations on your daughter's fabulous comeback and heavy duty responsibility to join the armed forces. (My daughter is in the National Guard - Army) heart heart