Homophobia I've exprienced in the past 3 days or so....

[PeachPunk]

Ok so on Sunday night I had to go to CCD... it was an awkward one... on Christian Sexuality. I thought we'd try to stay away from homosexuality when the guest speaker came, considering I live in Massachusetts and gay marriage is legal here, but no. We touched on it briefly, and the guest speaker wasn't too harsh about it; she just said marrige is supposed to be for a man and a woman, and that heterosexual sex is more special than homosexual sex because heterosexual sex can produce children, but homosexual sex can't. And she also said if you know someone who is gay, you should treat them with respect, regardless of their lifestyle. And that's basically all that we discussed about homosexuality. Then at the end she gave us a website about dealing with being gay if you are Catholic which I have linked. I was worried the content on there was going to try to convert LGBT people, but then I read a bit of it, and I think it's a bit interpretive. You can check it out if you like.
Also, a few hours ago tonight, my sister and father were talking about gays and stuff, and then my dad starting saying how every gay guy has a high-pitched lisp, and my sister was saying that she found the LGB part of LGBT fine, but the T, she said, was weird. Honestly, I don't believe it's my problem if you want to change your gender. I try to be happy with the way I was born, but some people aren't, and if they want to take on a whole new gender other than the one they were born with, that's okay. I wouldn't want to become a boy, but it's not my problem if you do. But my sister and father said it is a weird and stupid thing to do. Eventually, I teared up and told my father and sister to drop the convo.
(And right after I left the convo, I realized what my response could have been when my dad said the thing about how all gay men have high-pitched lisps: Neil Patrick Harris. [I hate it how I get the greatest comebacks right after the fight is over].)
Anyway, thoughts, questions, comments?  

[BlueberryCondomBomb]

I think that it's great that you link that website because a huge problem from LGBTs is religion.

Now, if your family is aware that you are gay they should respect that and shouldn't even talk about things like that in the first place. It's basic manners.

If they don't know you are gay then it' slightly more understandable because they are used to be on the "other" side of the issue, cut them some slack. You need to show them how the gay community is worthy of respect and should be supported, they'll listen to you, trust me.  

[PeachPunk]

SugarBerryxoxo

I think that it's great that you link that website because a huge problem from LGBTs is religion.

Now, if your family is aware that you are gay they should respect that and shouldn't even talk about things like that in the first place. It's basic manners.

If they don't know you are gay then it' slightly more understandable because they are used to be on the "other" side of the issue, cut them some slack. You need to show them how the gay community is worthy of respect and should be supported, they'll listen to you, trust me.

I'm actually not gay, I'm bi, and they don't know that. Basically nobody does. I've dropped some hints to certain people, but they probably never caught on. Anyway, I'm very sensitive about issues like this.. Well, I'm sensitive in general, but with these issues especially. I hate it when my dad won't vote for someone because (s)he's stereotypically black or something, and my mom knows it bugs me. She was out when my Sister and dad had this conversation, had she been there, she would have said, "Paul, don't say ignorant things like that!" anyway, I'm hoping that the day I come out to my family will be the day my father realizes how foolish his assumptions about things were. And if I end up marrying a non-white person that might solve his racism problem.
He's not exactly a legit homophobe or racist, just kind of to a minimal degree. He loves Elton John, Freddie mercury, and David Bowie and people like that, plus he's worked with a lot of blacks, Latinos, Asians, and Arabs, and got along with them. He seems more judgmental of minorities or LGBT people he hasn't met or heard of... I don't know. It's complicated.  

[Lady Kayura]

So if a union between two people that can have kids is more important than everyone else's union.. what about old people past child bearing years?

What about a couple that is young but unable to have children?

What about the women I take care of at work that have had cancer and had a hysterectomy at 25 and can't have children?

Are all these marriages not as meaningful too?

And that's why I hate the whole debate people use that not having kids makes a marriage pointless. Mind you, those are a couple of examples. There are others out there.  

[Matasoga]

Sunshine Peach-Heart

SugarBerryxoxo

I think that it's great that you link that website because a huge problem from LGBTs is religion.
Now, if your family is aware that you are gay they should respect that and shouldn't even talk about things like that in the first place. It's basic manners.
If they don't know you are gay then it' slightly more understandable because they are used to be on the "other" side of the issue, cut them some slack. You need to show them how the gay community is worthy of respect and should be supported, they'll listen to you, trust me.

I'm actually not gay, I'm bi, and they don't know that. Basically nobody does. I've dropped some hints to certain people, but they probably never caught on. Anyway, I'm very sensitive about issues like this.. Well, I'm sensitive in general, but with these issues especially. I hate it when my dad won't vote for someone because (s)he's stereotypically black or something, and my mom knows it bugs me. She was out when my Sister and dad had this conversation, had she been there, she would have said, "Paul, don't say ignorant things like that!" anyway, I'm hoping that the day I come out to my family will be the day my father realizes how foolish his assumptions about things were. And if I end up marrying a non-white person that might solve his racism problem.
He's not exactly a legit homophobe or racist, just kind of to a minimal degree. He loves Elton John, Freddie mercury, and David Bowie and people like that, plus he's worked with a lot of blacks, Latinos, Asians, and Arabs, and got along with them. He seems more judgmental of minorities or LGBT people he hasn't met or heard of... I don't know. It's complicated.

Let me preface this by saying that I'm not looking for a fight, and I'm leaving the conversation the moment it appears to be turning into one... But I have some difficult and unpleasant things to say.
It really isn't complicated.
There are plenty of bigots out there but most are like this. They aren't so off-the-wall maniacally bigoted that they think that nothing created by gay artists (such as those that you mentioned) are uninspiring, and they don't hate minorities so much that they're willing to make everyone around them miserable just because they have to work with "one of those people."
This isn't the 1920s, anymore. You can't expect things such as "A woman's place is in the kitchen," "We should lynch that n****r" or "Someone should beat up that f****t," to be met with silent affirmation, so a bigot with even a hint of intellect knows not to say these things. In fact, most bigots don't even believe such strongly hateful things. They're perfectly content to let all of "those people" be in the papers, on the news, or somewhere else. Sometimes even in the workplace. They don't necessarily even want them all to die, perhaps not even go away. They can just quietly mock them at home... But it's different if it's right there in their house. In their family.
I'm sorry, and I know it won't be easy to hear, but from the information that you have presented, it certainly seems to me that your father is a bigot... Not so insanely bigoted that I believe that he'll be the next one to shoot up a holocaust museum, but I'm sure that he does know plenty of Jew jokes.
Really, you can make whatever argument you like, but the fact is that you haven't come out, yet... No argument that you make can make everyone forget to ask why.  

[PeachPunk]

Matasoga

Sunshine Peach-Heart

SugarBerryxoxo

I think that it's great that you link that website because a huge problem from LGBTs is religion.
Now, if your family is aware that you are gay they should respect that and shouldn't even talk about things like that in the first place. It's basic manners.
If they don't know you are gay then it' slightly more understandable because they are used to be on the "other" side of the issue, cut them some slack. You need to show them how the gay community is worthy of respect and should be supported, they'll listen to you, trust me.

I'm actually not gay, I'm bi, and they don't know that. Basically nobody does. I've dropped some hints to certain people, but they probably never caught on. Anyway, I'm very sensitive about issues like this.. Well, I'm sensitive in general, but with these issues especially. I hate it when my dad won't vote for someone because (s)he's stereotypically black or something, and my mom knows it bugs me. She was out when my Sister and dad had this conversation, had she been there, she would have said, "Paul, don't say ignorant things like that!" anyway, I'm hoping that the day I come out to my family will be the day my father realizes how foolish his assumptions about things were. And if I end up marrying a non-white person that might solve his racism problem.
He's not exactly a legit homophobe or racist, just kind of to a minimal degree. He loves Elton John, Freddie mercury, and David Bowie and people like that, plus he's worked with a lot of blacks, Latinos, Asians, and Arabs, and got along with them. He seems more judgmental of minorities or LGBT people he hasn't met or heard of... I don't know. It's complicated.

Let me preface this by saying that I'm not looking for a fight, and I'm leaving the conversation the moment it appears to be turning into one... But I have some difficult and unpleasant things to say.
It really isn't complicated.
There are plenty of bigots out there but most are like this. They aren't so off-the-wall maniacally bigoted that they think that nothing created by gay artists (such as those that you mentioned) are uninspiring, and they don't hate minorities so much that they're willing to make everyone around them miserable just because they have to work with "one of those people."
This isn't the 1920s, anymore. You can't expect things such as "A woman's place is in the kitchen," "We should lynch that n****r" or "Someone should beat up that f****t," to be met with silent affirmation, so a bigot with even a hint of intellect knows not to say these things. In fact, most bigots don't even believe such strongly hateful things. They're perfectly content to let all of "those people" be in the papers, on the news, or somewhere else. Sometimes even in the workplace. They don't necessarily even want them all to die, perhaps not even go away. They can just quietly mock them at home... But it's different if it's right there in their house. In their family.
I'm sorry, and I know it won't be easy to hear, but from the information that you have presented, it certainly seems to me that your father is a bigot... Not so insanely bigoted that I believe that he'll be the next one to shoot up a holocaust museum, but I'm sure that he does know plenty of Jew jokes.
Really, you can make whatever argument you like, but the fact is that you haven't come out, yet... No argument that you make can make everyone forget to ask why.

I agree with what you say... I wouldn't deny my father is a bit of a bigot, and I'm glad he's married to someone like my mother because she really balances his bigotry out quite a bit of a time. I still love him, it's just when he says stupid things like that it gets me angry. My mother always says that my father is so lucky to be married to a woman like her, and that if he were married to a woman who was more like himself, his bigotry would only get worse.
He has learned to shut himself up in more recent situations, like as soon as he's about to say something just a bit more offensive than what he was saying previously, he'll say, "What am I talking about? I like Elton John and David Bowie and I was friendly with that black guy at work..." And he does respect it when I say, "Dad, can we drop this conversation? It's getting offensive." When I say this, never has he asked, "Why, Sheila? Are you bi/ a lesbian?" which is great because it shows that he respects my privacy and the fact that I may not be ready to come out.
Although I dunno if he suspects I'm a lesbian because I have said that I found a few male celebrities attractive. But who knows, he could have already gotten the hint that I'm bi.  

[PeachPunk]

Lady Kayura

So if a union between two people that can have kids is more important than everyone else's union.. what about old people past child bearing years?

What about a couple that is young but unable to have children?

What about the women I take care of at work that have had cancer and had a hysterectomy at 25 and can't have children?

Are all these marriages not as meaningful too?

And that's why I hate the whole debate people use that not having kids makes a marriage pointless. Mind you, those are a couple of examples. There are others out there.

Oh my God.... I can't believe I hadn't thought of these examples earlier... I guess maybe she meant it's because most heterosexual couples are capable of having children before any issues come up and complicate the option of getting pregnant? I don't know.
Also, haven't scientists come up with a way of combining two men's sperm, thus making it possible for a child to have two biological fathers? I could be wrong; I don't really keep up with science news.
And would it be possible to have two biological mothers if an egg were fertalized in one woman and then transported into another woman's uterus and thus letting that woman carry the child? I'm overanalyzing this lol. Any scientist here that know the answer to my stupid questions? razz  

[Lady Kayura]

Sunshine Peach-Heart

Oh my God.... I can't believe I hadn't thought of these examples earlier... I guess maybe she meant it's because most heterosexual couples are capable of having children before any issues come up and complicate the option of getting pregnant? I don't know.
Also, haven't scientists come up with a way of combining two men's sperm, thus making it possible for a child to have two biological fathers? I could be wrong; I don't really keep up with science news.
And would it be possible to have two biological mothers if an egg were fertalized in one woman and then transported into another woman's uterus and thus letting that woman carry the child? I'm overanalyzing this lol. Any scientist here that know the answer to my stupid questions? razz

Some people simply can't have kids. That's why fertility treatments exist. I know someone that got married, and tried for years to have a kid. She and her hubby went through treatments and nothing. So that's an example of no other special circumstances. But even then, the debate hurts those groups too which I find very cruel. Sharing such examples usually shuts the homophobes up fairly quick.

I've not heard of the combining of two sperm together. But that doesn't mean it's not happened.

Actually, you can have an egg fertilized that belongs to one woman inserted into another. Though as far as I know, fertilization is usually done in a petri dish and not in another person before transplanting. A woman can even donate her eggs the same way a man can donate sperm though of course it isn't as easy a thing to do. It is something I've considered but it's such a hassle to go through I've not done it. Though at this point, to fertilize, it must involve an egg and sperm, as far as I know.  

[Guardian Arlen]

It kinda irritates me for someone to say "straight" sex is more special than "gay" sex. I mean, sex is sex, and as stated above what about heterosexual couples that can't produce children due to their infertility, or those who are past their child bearing years. It's similar to someone saying "straight" marriage is more special than "gay" marriage, marriage is marriage. I don't "gay" walk to my classes, I don't "gay" breathe, I don't cough up designer purses and not every gay guy has a high pitched voice and talks with a lisp. I find it offensive for people to says such things. I'm not a "gay" human, I'm simply a human and nothing more or less.  

[PeachPunk]

Guardian Arlen

It kinda irritates me for someone to say "straight" sex is more special than "gay" sex. I mean, sex is sex, and as stated above what about heterosexual couples that can't produce children due to their infertility, or those who are past their child bearing years. It's similar to someone saying "straight" marriage is more special than "gay" marriage, marriage is marriage. I don't "gay" walk to my classes, I don't "gay" breathe, I don't cough up designer purses and not every gay guy has a high pitched voice and talks with a lisp. I find it offensive for people to says such things. I'm not a "gay" human, I'm simply a human and nothing more or less.

I totally agree. If it were really such a big deal to have every couple be capable of having children, the government would split up husbands from their wives once they hit menopause and give the husbands new, more fertile wives and a hell of a lot of Viagara. The only man on the planet I can handle doing that is Hugh Heffner. (yuck)
Anyway, yeah, as much as I pride myself in being Catholic, the Catholic Church is a bit behind its time. That's what it's all about really... tradition, tradition. Hell, they didn't stop conducting Mass in Latin until the mid '60s or early '70s. I'm just kind of glad that the Church is being a little more lenient about LGBT issues by saying that even if we don't accept some people's decisions or lifetstyles, we should still treat the people who made them or live that way with respect. I think you can even have a same-sex marriage in the Catholic Church now. I recall reading about an openly gay Catholic priest, Mychal Judge, whose church which he served at was right near the Twin Towers. Anyway, I recall hearing how he performed same-sex marriages for Catholic couples. Another thing: Mychal Judge died when he was giving Last Rites at the church to firefighters who were going into the burning Twin Towers on Sept. 11, 2001. And an even OTHER thing: THIS GUY HAS NOT BEEN CANONIZED AS A SAINT YET. Can you believe that? He really should be canonized.
Lol, I think I'm done ranting now. So, yeah, I agree with what you said.