(UPDATE!) Brought cat to the vet.

[kage no neko]

Made another appointment to bring our cat to the vet. The one that likes to pee in random places for no real reason. Yesterday he was struggling to pee in the corner. neutral Which makes no sense at all.

When we bring him, he'll likely pee on the way. Like he has every other time. Which means his bladder will be empty when we get there. Which means they'll probably be unable to take a urine sample from him. What do you suggest we do about that? Arrive early enough for more urine to build up for them to be able to take a sample?

And what else should we ask the vet to look for? Someone had suggested they draw blood and test it, but what should I ask the vet to look for in the blood? I'm guessing signs of an infection.. but last time we brought him, they gave us an antibiotic even though they couldn't get a urine sample and we gave it to him and it doesn't seem to have helped. Maybe the vet can suggest why he might be peeing where he is.. Since we're completely stumped.  

[Ailinea]

Definitely sounds like a Urinary Tract Infection. When my dog couldn't pee for the vet for the same reason, they used a needle to pull out what urine they could from the bladder. He wasn't happy about it, but they got enough to make the diagnosis.

My roommate has a cat that has had frequent UTI's, even after antibiotics. They eventually determined she had crystals or something and put her on that crappy Royal Canin SO diet and some Metacam and told her that the cat couldn't eat ANYTHING else, or it would get worse. We're still not sure how a diet comprised mostly of corn could be fixing anything, but I digress...

Not sure if blood work would find anything (although my vet did a blood test for leptospirosis with my dog...?). It really sounds like a UTI. You could do it to be safe, but the vet will know what tests to run based on the symptoms your cat is exhibiting. Good luck, keep us updated!  

[Gabrielle_AnimalLuver]

How long did you give the antibiotics for? Without a urine culture, maybe the antibiotics they gave were not effective against the exact bacteria that he has.

It could also be crystals though.

I would suggest one of two things, either ask your vet if they can try a cystocentesis. (extract urine left in the bladder with a needle) maybe even keep the cat at the clinic for a few hours until urine collection is possible.

Or, get the special bead litter and collect urine yourself at home.

If it is bacteria, it should be done via cysto anyways.

My clinic will often have cats spend the day at the clinic until we are able to collect urine from them. Without culturing the urine, your vet might not be able to properly choose an effective antibiotic.

Any cat with urinary issues needs to be on a moist food diet, and one that is Ph balanced. Pro Plan actually has a urinary diet, this would be the cheapest option if money is an issue.  

[Ailinea]

Ooh, Gabby, would you suggest Pro Plan over Royal Canin? We've been trying to find a better alternative to this corn garbage but I'm finding no luck. Any suggestions?  

[kage no neko]

Gab: We gave him the antibiotics as directed. I think it was for 10 days, one a day.

And they get moist food for breakfast. They actually get pro plan, just not the urinary stuff. So I don't think it'd be a problem to get that particular type for him, they're cheap enough.. He's gets blue buffalo wilderness for the rest of his meals. And he drinks plenty of water, he's often found slurping at the fountain part of the water dish, so I don't think there's any problem with him not getting enough fluids.

We're gonna be bringing him in later today.. so I'll let you know how that goes. Last time they said they couldn't feel any crystals by pressing from the outside (would they be able to anyway?), so that was apparently dismissed. But we'll see how it goes today. He's going to be seeing our usual lady this time. Last time he saw a different guy who we don't usually see.  

[Gabrielle_AnimalLuver]

Nooo, I wouldn't recommend pro plan over medical. I would say Medical then Hills, then ProPlan. Medical has much less corn than Hills, from the diets that I've compared anyway. Medical uses fish oil, no BHT, BHA or ethoxyquin. It's almost a good food ingredient wise. (assuming the by-products are quality by-products like heart etc.) I only mention pro plan because they HAVE a urinary diet that will not cost you a small fortune. Is it nearly as effective, probably not, but it is PH balanced for cats who are prone to urinary disease, and they do run tests on the food.

Would the vet feel crystals, no, impossible, STONES yes, but not crystals, crystals are microscopic, a stone is an accumulation of crystals,but even then, I have never heard of a vet try to PALPATE a stone. Fill a ballon with about 200ml of water, but a tiny pebble in. Now try to feel the pebble. We usually diagnose stones with xrays. Which is what I just had to do for my cat because I suspected it. Unfortunately that IS costly. I don't know if every vet does this. But my cat had no crystals in his urine and they suspected there might still be a stone without individual crystals leaking out.

Personally, when I see a cat straining to pee, I want to know FOR SURE what the cause is, not just assume and give antibiotics. Because it could potentially turn into a blockage which is life threatening and a lot more costly to treat than it is to prevent.

As long as the cat gets 50% moist food I'm not too worried, but ask your vet if his urine is concentrated. And if he needs to be on all moist. Rascal is actually on all moist and yet the last time I tested his urine it came up VERY concentrated. Which I'm hoping is a bit of a fluke but I try not to feed dry food to him anymore.

If you ever make tuna, poor the juice into the cat's bowl. Or if you roast chicken etc, pour the meat juice in there. You want to dilute the urine as much as possible.  

[kage no neko]

My cats always get tuna juice. Or else they'd probably murder me that night while I sleep. We got a roast chicken from the store and they enjoyed the juice that came with that too.


Anyway. Brought him to the vet. On the way he peed, like usual. So he gets to stay the night so they can get a urine sample sometime soon.
So they're going to take his urine, do a urinalysis and a culture, and also knock him out and take x-rays. She said with the x-rays it'll show not only crystals, but also possible inflammation in his bladder. So hopefully by tomorrow we'll find out what the problem is.

I feel so sad. Boyfriend is worried about him staying the night due to the anesthesia.. I'm worried about him staying the night due to him being away from me. xd Boyfriend said to imagine it like my kid going to school alone for the first time.  

[Gabrielle_AnimalLuver]

kage no neko

My cats always get tuna juice. Or else they'd probably murder me that night while I sleep. We got a roast chicken from the store and they enjoyed the juice that came with that too.


Anyway. Brought him to the vet. On the way he peed, like usual. So he gets to stay the night so they can get a urine sample sometime soon.
So they're going to take his urine, do a urinalysis and a culture, and also knock him out and take x-rays. She said with the x-rays it'll show not only crystals, but also possible inflammation in his bladder. So hopefully by tomorrow we'll find out what the problem is.

I feel so sad. Boyfriend is worried about him staying the night due to the anesthesia.. I'm worried about him staying the night due to him being away from me. xd Boyfriend said to imagine it like my kid going to school alone for the first time.

What does he need anesthesia for? Oh wait...US tech's aren't allowed to stay in the xray room are they. Here in QC we just let our techs get exposed to radiation lol. I wear a lead gown and thyroid protecter, no one at my clinic ever wears gloves, I don't even have my own dosimeter yet, which I'm pretty sure is against the law. I've been exposed to quite a bit of radiation already, which is funny cause I'm actually quite the hippy I haven't even used a microwave in years because I of the radiation and the way it denatures food. i DO continue to sleep with my phone next to me. So that's probably worse, it's just something I'm not willing to give up. I'm hoping some day they come out with lead cases lol.

Anyway, here we only anesthetise a cat for an xray if they are feral. A client owned animal that is viscious might just get a sedative.

But the safest place for your cat if he is getting any kind of tranq or anesthesia is at the vet. Animals under anesthesia are typically low blood pressure and hypothermia. Vets know this, and prevent accordingly with heating devices and IV fluids. Assuming he's going under for an xray, he'll be out and awake again in a matter of minutes. I'd be very surprised if they actually use an anesthesia though, when a simple mixture of tranqs will probably knock him out sufficiently to stay still.  

[kage no neko]

On the pre-bill that she printed out (so we could see how much stuff would be).. it says "isoflurane anesth short term".

They called my boyfriend (who is at work, closest to their office, so he can get Tora), and apparently his bladder looks normal, and they're culturing his urine, but they didn't get enough for a urinalysis. Sigh. I was hoping there would be something physically wrong with him.. if there isn't, then it's purely behavioral, and I don't know how to handle that.


Edit:
He's home, and happy to be home. And clearly didn't eat any of their food. As soon as his paws touched the ground, he was zooming to the food dish. smile I put down an entire can of wet food (small can) and my cat's hiding upstairs refusing to come down... that's another story. And he was munching off of both plates. Then he went to his flowy water and had a good drink. I love knowing that I spoil my pets. smile  

[Gabrielle_AnimalLuver]

ok, I'm surprised they put him on iso for something as fast as an xray, seems like an aweful waste of time. But wtv, least it's a pretty safe drug.

I would ask for some beaded litter, and collect a sample yourself. Since they're doing a culture, it doesn't matter so much if what YOU bring in isn't sterile. What I like to do though is get a litter liner, to prevent contaminating the urine with bacteria, or getting false results from the cleaning products.

With that they can do a full urinalysis. I don't see how they have enough to culture and not enough for a UA though. At my clinic I've done a full UA on about 1ml of urine. The dipstick test takes about 3 drops, granted you do need at least 1ml to spin to do a sediment test. Anyways, point being, if you're going to investigate, you've got almost all the puzzle pieces but you're just missing one or two that might show you the answer, so I wouldn't stop with that, I would get beaded litter, bring in an unsterile sample, get them to finish the UA and if there is STILL nothing conceivably wrong. THEN I would suggest doing bloodwork. With stones ruled out, we've already narrowed the issues. It sounds like an infection. (Did they look at his kidneys on the xray, I had a vet and a tech overlook that on my cat's xray, we were all looking at the bladder and neglected to check his kidneys which is where HIS stones were.)

If it is behavioral. What is your cat to litter box ratio? What kind of litter and any changes recently?  

[kage no neko]

They called monday and left a message, but I didn't get the message until after they closed.. So tuesday I went to take a shower, and in Tora's favorite laundry basket (he LOVES his laundry basket) was pee... Which wasn't the usual golden color but instead much darker. Which reminded me that they called.

So I called them back and the vet told me that the culture came back and he does have an infection. The antibiotic he took back in Feb wouldn't have affected this bacteria, and it's probably the cause of the new-found blood in his urine (which is what I was figuring the darker pee was). So now he's on an antibiotic, 2 a day for 10 days. God he's so difficult, lol. Definitely need two people to give it to him.

We have one litter box per cat. That's all we have room for. And they are welcome to use either box, but they seem to stick to their own box. It's a multi-cat litter and we haven't done any sorts of changes.  

[Gabrielle_AnimalLuver]

Ok, well at least we have a diagnosis. (shame on the first vet for not trying to get a culture) So as long as you follow the prescription and don't miss any, don't give any late, you should see a difference fairly soon. It won't take the full 10days to get better, it's a precaution to give it for 10days so there aren't resistant bacteria. And two boxes is okay IMO. If there was still issues with inapropriate urination unrelated to health problems THEN I would say get more, but you can get away with fewer boxes than suggested as long as you clean them often enough.

Try to use unscented litter if your cats will let you change. I dunno WHY but I remember learning that scented litters for some unknown reason tend to aggrevate urinary issues.

Stick to a mostly moist diet, and preferably switch the pro plan for Pro Plan Urinary. Or if you can afford it, Hills s/d or c/d or Medical. At the very least steer clear of grocery foods. With the exception of pro plan. Keep in mind if you feed a urinary diet at night and something different in the morning, it won't be as effective at controlling the PH. So if you do get an expensive vet diet, it might not really be worth the money if you're mixing it. I would say Urinary dry and canned Pro Plan is a good option. I hate suggesting a switch from a holistic food to a vet food, but, I just don't know for certain if blue bufallo has been tested for optimal urine PH. I'm lucky enough to be able to test my cat's urine regularly for PH and Concentration. So I know his food is fine and I ignore the vets telling me to switch to Hills. You could keep the Blue Buffalo, switch the pro plan and just try to suppliment moist foods as much as possible. I know this is seriously TMI wall of info, just keep in mind, cats who get UTI's will very likely get them again unless you adjust something.  

[kage no neko]

It appears he's had it since before we got him, which was back in January. At the humane society he was on science diet. And OMG his poop REEKED. Worst smell ever filled at least half the house. We bought the blue buffalo shortly after and we had left the bag sitting out. He actually chewed through the bag and was eating the food, before he even got to taste it! That amazed us. And his poop has been MUCH more tolerable since, the smell only filling the one room. And the door stays open, so the smell dissipates quickly.

And I think our litter is scentless. I haven't used scented litter in a long time, mostly because I'm too sensitive to smells. xd I even have to use scent-free deodorant.

And I don't see what's so TMI about health issues. razz