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 Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 12:20 pm
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Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 8:38 am
This verse keeps coming to mind whenever somebody implies this: Quote: Colossians 1:19 (NIV) 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. What in heaven needs to be reconciled?
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Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 9:20 am
Ummm......where to begin?
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Posted: Wed May 21, 2014 2:50 pm
real eyes realize This verse keeps coming to mind whenever somebody implies this: Quote: Colossians 1:19 (NIV) 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. What in heaven needs to be reconciled? Not sure what that could be... What in heaven would need to be reconciled to Jesus? Could it be that we are interpreting the word wrong? I don't think it could be alien intelligences since Jesus is the kinsman redeemer. Leviticus 25:47-55 `Now if the means of a stranger or of a sojourner with you becomes sufficient, and a countryman of yours becomes so poor with regard to him as to sell himself to a stranger who is sojourning with you, or to the descendants of a stranger's family, then he shall have redemption right after he has been sold. One of his brothers may redeem him, or his uncle, or his uncle's son, may redeem him, or one of his blood relatives from his family may redeem him; or if he prospers, he may redeem himself. Kinsman Redeemer
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Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 9:04 am
Garland-Green real eyes realize This verse keeps coming to mind whenever somebody implies this: Quote: Colossians 1:19 (NIV) 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. What in heaven needs to be reconciled? Not sure what that could be... What in heaven would need to be reconciled to Jesus? Could it be that we are interpreting the word wrong? I don't think it could be alien intelligences since Jesus is the kinsman redeemer. Leviticus 25:47-55 `Now if the means of a stranger or of a sojourner with you becomes sufficient, and a countryman of yours becomes so poor with regard to him as to sell himself to a stranger who is sojourning with you, or to the descendants of a stranger's family, then he shall have redemption right after he has been sold. One of his brothers may redeem him, or his uncle, or his uncle's son, may redeem him, or one of his blood relatives from his family may redeem him; or if he prospers, he may redeem himself. Kinsman RedeemerThe fallen angels or the fallen angels' offspring perhaps? Their sin didn't seem to have any chance for repentance or atonement...nor did their unlawful offspring have much choice in the matter of being born in the first place. If the angels are called "Sons of God" in the Old Testament ( Job 1:6, 2:1, 38:7) and they had relations with human women ( Genesis 6:1-2), then Jesus is related to them and their offspring. It doesn't have to be the most closely related kinsman that redeems you, just has to be related somehow: like Boaz, he was not the most closely related to Ruth, there was another kinsman redeemer who had the right before he did, yet in the end it was Boaz who redeemed her ( Ruth 3:9,12; 4:1-12). Maybe that's what Peter meant in 1 Pt 3:19-20? Quote: 1 Peter 3:19-20 (NIV) 19 After being made alive,[a] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, Footnotes: 1 Peter 3:19 Or but made alive in the spirit, 19 in which alsoThat's when the Sons of God had relations with human women (in the days of Noah, Genesis 6; when Noah was told to build an ark). If anything from Heaven needs to be reconciled, it would be them: the ones from Heaven who rebelled. In a way, the Sons of God, both human and angel, have strayed, enticed by Satan. And even though Gehenna was prepared for the devil and his angels, does it mean all of them are beyond reconciliation? Without Jesus, no one would be getting reconciled: not us, and not them. idea
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Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 3:51 pm
real eyes realize Garland-Green real eyes realize This verse keeps coming to mind whenever somebody implies this: Quote: Colossians 1:19 (NIV) 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. What in heaven needs to be reconciled? Not sure what that could be... What in heaven would need to be reconciled to Jesus? Could it be that we are interpreting the word wrong? I don't think it could be alien intelligences since Jesus is the kinsman redeemer. Leviticus 25:47-55 `Now if the means of a stranger or of a sojourner with you becomes sufficient, and a countryman of yours becomes so poor with regard to him as to sell himself to a stranger who is sojourning with you, or to the descendants of a stranger's family, then he shall have redemption right after he has been sold. One of his brothers may redeem him, or his uncle, or his uncle's son, may redeem him, or one of his blood relatives from his family may redeem him; or if he prospers, he may redeem himself. Kinsman RedeemerThe fallen angels or the fallen angels' offspring perhaps? Their sin didn't seem to have any chance for repentance or atonement...nor did their unlawful offspring have much choice in the matter of being born in the first place. If the angels are called "Sons of God" in the Old Testament ( Job 1:6, 2:1, 38:7) and they had relations with human women ( Genesis 6:1-2), then Jesus is related to them and their offspring. It doesn't have to be the most closely related kinsman that redeems you, just has to be related somehow: like Boaz, he was not the most closely related to Ruth, there was another kinsman redeemer who had the right before he did, yet in the end it was Boaz who redeemed her ( Ruth 3:9,12; 4:1-12). Maybe that's what Peter meant in 1 Pt 3:19-20? Quote: 1 Peter 3:19-20 (NIV) 19 After being made alive,[a] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, Footnotes: 1 Peter 3:19 Or but made alive in the spirit, 19 in which alsoThat's when the Sons of God had relations with human women (in the days of Noah, Genesis 6; when Noah was told to build an ark). If anything from Heaven needs to be reconciled, it would be them: the ones from Heaven who rebelled. In a way, the Sons of God, both human and angel, have strayed, enticed by Satan. And even though Gehenna was prepared for the devil and his angels, does it mean all of them are beyond reconciliation? Without Jesus, no one would be getting reconciled: not us, and not them. idea Hmm. I am still not sure. Mostly because it says 'reconcile to himself all things'. It could mean what you said, the offspring of fallen angels, but it could also mean fallen creation. The things (planetary bodies etc) that are in heaven, that were effected by man's fall... Everything in the universe whether it is celestial bodies, or human bodies are subject to decay, wear and tear. Romans 8:18-22 18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 19 For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. Does the Bible mention anywhere angels being forgiven their trespasses, or their offspring having access to forgiveness/redemption? What was the proclamation He made to the imprisoned spirits? The proclamation of His victory over evil, or that the imprisoned disobedient spirits had access to forgiveness?
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