Christian Rapper and Former Lesbian Speaks about Her Convers

[Garland-Green]

Christian Rapper and Former Lesbian Speaks about Her Conversion  

[King Shining Heaven]

Interesting story. It's always hard for people who struggle with that kind of thing, but I'm happy to see she is trying to walk closer to God.  

[Water of Fenri]

See, as I'm learning more and more about the actual translations of the Bible from Hebrew and Greek into English, I'm realizing that so many things are mis-translated, taken out of context, and/or translated with a bias against certain groups. (Including but not limited to homosexuals)  

[Water of Fenri]

Young King under Heaven

Interesting story. It's always hard for people who struggle with that kind of thing, but I'm happy to see she is trying to walk closer to God.

What is the deal with the gif in your signature?  

[Garland-Green]

Water of Fenri

See, as I'm learning more and more about the actual translations of the Bible from Hebrew and Greek into English, I'm realizing that so many things are mis-translated, taken out of context, and/or translated with a bias against certain groups. (Including but not limited to homosexuals)

Are you thinking about words like arsenokoitai? If you want input on the subject it would help us to contribute if you substantiated your claim with examples. ^_^

More on: The Meaning behind Arsenokoites  

[King Shining Heaven]

Water of Fenri

Young King under Heaven

Interesting story. It's always hard for people who struggle with that kind of thing, but I'm happy to see she is trying to walk closer to God.

What is the deal with the gif in your signature?

It's from Foamy the Squirrel  

[Water of Fenri]

Garland-Green

Water of Fenri

See, as I'm learning more and more about the actual translations of the Bible from Hebrew and Greek into English, I'm realizing that so many things are mis-translated, taken out of context, and/or translated with a bias against certain groups. (Including but not limited to homosexuals)

Are you thinking about words like arsenokoitai? If you want input on the subject it would help us to contribute if you substantiated your claim with examples. ^_^

More on: The Meaning behind Arsenokoites

I'm not. The issue is that "homosexual" is a relatively modern term, as is the modern understanding of homosexuality, and the subculture therein. This is a neat resource that goes back to the ancient Hebrews and such. I've been reading it for a class I'm taking.  

[Garland-Green]

Water of Fenri

Garland-Green

Water of Fenri

See, as I'm learning more and more about the actual translations of the Bible from Hebrew and Greek into English, I'm realizing that so many things are mis-translated, taken out of context, and/or translated with a bias against certain groups. (Including but not limited to homosexuals)

Are you thinking about words like arsenokoitai? If you want input on the subject it would help us to contribute if you substantiated your claim with examples. ^_^

More on: The Meaning behind Arsenokoites

I'm not. The issue is that "homosexual" is a relatively modern term, as is the modern understanding of homosexuality, and the subculture therein. This is a neat resource that goes back to the ancient Hebrews and such. I've been reading it for a class I'm taking.

Do you agree that worldview and personal preference color how we see things?

I am just reading on wikipedia about Rictor Norton;
Norton was born in New York on June 25, 1945. He gained a BA from Florida Southern College in 1967, and a PhD from Florida State University in 1972. His doctoral dissertation was on homosexual themes in English Renaissance literature. He worked as an instructor at Florida State University from 1970–72, where he taught a course on gay and lesbian literature in 1971, one of the earliest gay courses in the United States. He was an active member of the Gay Liberation Front from 1971–72, and was involved in campaigning for the repeal of Florida's sodomy statute.

In 1973, he moved to London, UK, where he has lived since, working as a journalist, publisher, researcher and freelance scholar. He worked as a research editor for the fortnightly London news journal, Gay News, from 1974 to 1978. He wrote articles on gay history and literature for publications such as Gay Sunshine and The Advocate throughout the 1970s, and for Gay Times later. In December 2005 he formed a civil partnership with his partner of nearly thirty years.

I will comment more on what he wrote when I have time (there is a lot to comment on). I am just asking for now if he could be biased and allow his personal preference to color his scholarly work?  

[Garland-Green]

Water of Fenri

Garland-Green

Water of Fenri

See, as I'm learning more and more about the actual translations of the Bible from Hebrew and Greek into English, I'm realizing that so many things are mis-translated, taken out of context, and/or translated with a bias against certain groups. (Including but not limited to homosexuals)

Are you thinking about words like arsenokoitai? If you want input on the subject it would help us to contribute if you substantiated your claim with examples. ^_^

More on: The Meaning behind Arsenokoites

I'm not. The issue is that "homosexual" is a relatively modern term, as is the modern understanding of homosexuality, and the subculture therein. This is a neat resource that goes back to the ancient Hebrews and such. I've been reading it for a class I'm taking.

Quote:

In comparison with other ancient legal codes, Mosaic law was relatively lenient — it listed a mere 36 crimes which were punishable by death. But of these 36 crimes, exactly one half were "crimes" involving sex, so in contrast to other legal systems the Hebrews gradually extended the notion of "crime" into the personal and private affairs of people rather than limiting it to the social and public level (such as the public crimes of murder or theft). Further, there rather quickly evolved the notion that crime and sex were intimately related. Unlike their contemporary Greek, Egyptian, and other civilizations, the Hebrews held the view that sex, the sex organs, and nudity were shameful..

Here's the core issue. He doesn't see that crimes go beyond stealing or murder.That sexuality also have to be expressed in a godly way.That there is a standard of sexuality beyond what contemporary society dictates to be right. I don't believe it was so much a reaction to sex organs, or nudity by contemporary civilizations as God working through a nation to show the surrounding nations His will.

Hebrews 1:1
In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways,

Quote:

In Leviticus 18.6-19 there are as many as 12 prohibitions relating entirely to nakedness ("Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father"; "Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy aunt"; etc.) and most of the other death-deserving laws occur in the context of condemning "the uncovering of one's nakedness," whether for erotic purposes or not. In Exodus 20.26 and 28.42 nakedness is forbidden within the precinct of their cult deity, Jahweh or Jehovah, and the priests of Jahweh are commanded to wear linen breeches (the ephod): "from the loins even unto the thighs they shall reach."

Posting Leviticus 18:6-19

Leviticus 18New International Version (NIV)

Unlawful Sexual Relations
18 The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘I am the Lord your God. 3 You must not do as they do in Egypt, where you used to live, and you must not do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you. Do not follow their practices. 4 You must obey my laws and be careful to follow my decrees. I am the Lord your God. 5 Keep my decrees and laws, for the person who obeys them will live by them. I am the Lord.

6 “‘No one is to approach any close relative to have sexual relations. I am the Lord.

7 “‘Do not dishonor your father by having sexual relations with your mother. She is your mother; do not have relations with her.

8 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your father’s wife; that would dishonor your father.

9 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your sister, either your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether she was born in the same home or elsewhere.

10 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your son’s daughter or your daughter’s daughter; that would dishonor you.

11 “‘Do not have sexual relations with the daughter of your father’s wife, born to your father; she is your sister.

12 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your father’s sister; she is your father’s close relative.

13 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your mother’s sister, because she is your mother’s close relative.

14 “‘Do not dishonor your father’s brother by approaching his wife to have sexual relations; she is your aunt.

15 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your daughter-in-law. She is your son’s wife; do not have relations with her.

16 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your brother’s wife; that would dishonor your brother.

17 “‘Do not have sexual relations with both a woman and her daughter. Do not have sexual relations with either her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter; they are her close relatives. That is wickedness.

18 “‘Do not take your wife’s sister as a rival wife and have sexual relations with her while your wife is living.

19 “‘Do not approach a woman to have sexual relations during the uncleanness of her monthly period.

20 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your neighbor’s wife and defile yourself with her.

21 “‘Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molek, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the Lord.

22 “‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.

23 “‘Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion.

24 “‘Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. 25 Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. 26 But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the foreigners residing among you must not do any of these detestable things, 27 for all these things were done by the people who lived in the land before you, and the land became defiled. 28 And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you.

29 “‘Everyone who does any of these detestable things—such persons must be cut off from their people. 30 Keep my requirements and do not follow any of the detestable customs that were practiced before you came and do not defile yourselves with them. I am the Lord your God.’”

God gives a very good reason why not to do these things; This is the way the surrounding nations are defiling themselves and even their land was defiled because of their actions. It was the reason He was giving Israel their land. These nations are gone, they have been judged. In context of the list and in a modernized language (thanks to the NIV) you can see that uncovering nakedness means having sexual relations.


Exodus 20:26
And do not go up to my altar on steps, lest your nakedness be exposed on it.'

He is reading the verse with his worldview goggles. The focus here is on the steps. Not to go up to God's altar on steps. No steps should lead up to the altar. The nakedness is sin.

Another example of nakedness used as an image for sin;

Revelation 3:17
You say, 'I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked.

Revelation 16:15
"Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed."

Galatians 3:27
for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

God sets the standard of what to wear when coming in His presence. Perhaps a picture of the covering we receive that covers our guilt when we believe in Christ so that we are able to come to Him and "not incur guilt and die " (Exodus 28:43)?  

[Garland-Green]

Water of Fenri

Garland-Green

Water of Fenri

See, as I'm learning more and more about the actual translations of the Bible from Hebrew and Greek into English, I'm realizing that so many things are mis-translated, taken out of context, and/or translated with a bias against certain groups. (Including but not limited to homosexuals)

Are you thinking about words like arsenokoitai? If you want input on the subject it would help us to contribute if you substantiated your claim with examples. ^_^

More on: The Meaning behind Arsenokoites

I'm not. The issue is that "homosexual" is a relatively modern term, as is the modern understanding of homosexuality, and the subculture therein. This is a neat resource that goes back to the ancient Hebrews and such. I've been reading it for a class I'm taking.

Quote:

Whereas the Greek term for the male genitals, medea, was an entirely neutral term having no positive or negative connotations, the Hebrew term for the male genitals, erva, means "hideous flesh." Virtually every psychologist, anthropologist, and student of comparative religion now recognizes that the Hebrew ritual ceremony of circumcision is a muted form of castration and a symbolic attempt at genital mutilation having virtually no justification in terms of hygiene. In Leviticus 15.16-18 semen is declared to be "unclean," and men are admonished to bathe after they emit semen, and any garments or the skin of other persons upon which semen has fallen are similarly considered to be "unclean."

Ervah is not a term for male genitalia but for nakedness.

Strong's Concordance
ervah: nakedness
Original Word: עֶרְוָה
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: ervah
Phonetic Spelling: (er-vaw')
Short Definition: nakedness

NASB Translation
bare (1), indecency (1), indecent (1), nakedness (48.), shame (1), undefended parts (2).

Quote:

Virtually every psychologist, anthropologist, and student of comparative religion now recognizes that the Hebrew ritual ceremony of circumcision is a muted form of castration

And these people are chosen by God to reveal us a great truth? Prophets of their time? Are they undermining God and the idea that there is a God or building people up in the saving faith? He is also appealing to you to accept his proposition because everyone who matters or could have something relevant to say on the matter, in his eyes believe the same thing.  

[Garland-Green]

Continuing;

Quote:

It is also quite likely that the prohibitions were more theological, more theoretical and formal, than practical or actual, for there is no evidence that any death penalties were even inflicted. The Mishnah and Talmud prescribed stoning to death (as does Leviticus), and in due course there were discussions among the rabbis resulting in agreement that 13-year-old sodomites (i.e. minors) were not guilty of a crime because the Biblical phrase "men with mankind" referred only to adult males. This was a purely theoretical discussion among the rabbis, and never applied.

Failure to follow the laws as laid out by Moses, or radical reinterpretation of meaning such as the one you find in the Mishnah and Talmud doesn't really invalidate these laws or mean that the laws were just made for theoretical discussion. The law was made evident to be a standard of what is right and what Israel was supposed to do. However Israel doesn't have a good track record when it comes to obedience hence interpretations that leave space for sin.

Psalm 112:1-3
Praise the Lord! Blessed is the man who fears the Lord, who greatly delights in his commandments! His offspring will be mighty in the land; the generation of the upright will be blessed. Wealth and riches are in his house, and his righteousness endures forever.  

[Garland-Green]

Quote:

Unfortunately for us, homosexual rites were included in the religions of the Assyrians, and other ancient peoples of the area, that the Hebrews felt constrained to renounce.

The assumption here is that what the Bible has to say about homosexuality is a result of Hebrews reacting to Assyrian rites and not to divine revelation.  

[Garland-Green]

Quote:

They were called qadesh, which means "holy ones" — that is, those blessed or consecrated for this divine service. This term was used by the Hebrews as an exact equivalent for "sodomite," and the term for the female temple prostitutes, qedheshah, was used as an equivalent for "whore" (see I Kings 14.22-24, 15.12, 22.46; Deuteronomy 23.17-18; Leviticus 18.3, 24-30, 20.23, all of which relate specifically to Egyptian and Canaanite religious homosexuality).

I don't really see where he is getting qadesh being an exact equivalent for "sodomite" from... It is translated as temple prostitute.

Strong's Concordance
qadesh: a temple prostitute
Original Word: קָדֵשׁ
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: qadesh
Phonetic Spelling: (kaw-dashe')
Short Definition: prostitute

Posting the verses he is providing;

1 Kings 14:22–24 [NASB]
22Judah did evil in the sight of the Lord, and they provoked Him to jealousy more than all that their fathers had done, with the sins which they committed. 23 For they also built for themselves high places and sacred pillars and Asherim on every high hill and beneath every luxuriant tree.
24 There were also male cult prostitutes in the land. They did according to all the abominations of the nations which the Lord dispossessed before the sons of Israel.

1 Kings 15:12-15 (NIV)
12 He expelled the male shrine prostitutes from the land and got rid of all the idols his ancestors had made. 13 He even deposed his grandmother Maakah from her position as queen mother, because she had made a repulsive image for the worship of Asherah. Asa cut it down and burned it in the Kidron Valley. 14 Although he did not remove the high places, Asa’s heart was fully committed to the Lord all his life. 15 He brought into the temple of the Lord the silver and gold and the articles that he and his father had dedicated.

Deuteronomy 23.17-18
17 People of Israel, don't any of you ever be temple prostitutes. 18 The Lord your God is disgusted with men and women who are prostitutes of any kind, and he will not accept a gift from them, even if it had been promised to him.


Leviticus 18:1-5
The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘I am the Lord your God. 3 You must not do as they do in Egypt, where you used to live, and you must not do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you. Do not follow their practices. 4 You must obey my laws and be careful to follow my decrees. I am the Lord your God. 5 Keep my decrees and laws, for the person who obeys them will live by them. I am the Lord.