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 Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:15 am
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A Christian considers this age-old question by interviewing Holocaust survivors—and turning the mirror on himself.
Gabriella Karin, an 82-year-old Holocaust survivor, sits opposite me at a trendy Italian restaurant across the street from the Los Angeles Museum of the Holocaust. “Human nature is basically good,” she says, digging into a Caesar salad.
Read more: link
Comment;
The Bible gives us the answer to the question of whether man is inherently good or evil;
Romans 3:22-24
And this righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no distinction, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.
Good deeds don't cover up the bad. They don't make the bad things we do and think any smaller or less serious.
Genesis 8:21
The LORD smelled the soothing aroma; and the LORD said to Himself, "I will never again curse the ground on account of man, for the intent of man's heart is evil from his youth; and I will never again destroy every living thing, as I have done.
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Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:23 am
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There are two things I want to comment on:
(1) to fully define the answer to the question
(2) something the female, 82-year-old Holocaust survivor said.
(1) Is man inherently good or evil?
To summarize (and add on) to one of the comments that gave the most complete answer (one named Derek Rishmawy): we were created good in the beginning, but we're born with a sinful nature, so any goodness we reflect (even as unbelievers) is what's left from our original design. All of our deeds are tainted by sin/deviance to some degree—some more than others, some less than others—but still, we are deviated from God's image. Thus, why we all fall short of the glory of God...
...and thus, the need for us, all of us, to be born-again. In Jesus, we are to crucify the sinful nature to death and walk in the Spirit, bearing the fruit of the Spirit; otherwise, we get cut off (it's only with the Spirit of Christ dwelling in us that we can bear this righteous fruit).
Colossians 2:11 (NIV)
11 In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh[a] was put off when you were circumcised by[b] Christ,
Footnotes:
a. Colossians 2:11 In contexts like this, the Greek word for flesh (sarx) refers to the sinful state of human beings, often presented as a power in opposition to the Spirit; also in verse 13.
b. Colossians 2:11 Or put off in the circumcision of
Galatians 5:24-25 (NIV)
24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.
Romans 8:13 (NIV)
13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.
Colossians 3:5-10 (NIV)
5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.[a] 7 You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8 But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 9 Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices 10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.
Footnotes:
a. Colossians 3:6 Some early manuscripts coming on those who are disobedient
Galatians 5:19-23 (NIV)
19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Ezekiel 36:27 (NIV)
27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.
John 14:23 (NIV)
23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.
2 Corinthians 13:5 (NIV)
5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?
1 John 2:6 (NIV)
6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.
1 John 3:7 (NIV)
7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.
You can't be righteous as He is righteous unless He is in you (and you in Him by abiding in His Word).
John 15:1-6 (NIV)
15 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.
5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
Footnotes:
a. John 15:2 The Greek for he prunes also means he cleans.
Titus 3:5-7 (NIV)
5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.
1 Peter 1:23 (NIV)
23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.
Galatians 4:19 (NIV)
19 My dear children, for whom I am again in the pains of childbirth until Christ is formed in you,
Our born-again self is to reflect Christ.
Romans 8:29 (NIV)
29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.
And if that doesn't happen, we'll get cut off/burned in the lake of fire.
Romans 13:11-14 (NIV)
11 And do this, understanding the present time: The hour has already come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. 12 The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. 13 Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. 14 Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the flesh.[a]
Footnotes:
a. Romans 13:14 In contexts like this, the Greek word for flesh (sarx) refers to the sinful state of human beings, often presented as a power in opposition to the Spirit.
Revelation 19:7-8 (NIV)
7 Let us rejoice and be glad
and give him glory!
For the wedding of the Lamb has come,
and his bride has made herself ready.
8 Fine linen, bright and clean,
was given her to wear.”
(Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of God’s holy people.)
Revelation 21:7-8 (NIV)
7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”
Note: the parenthetical statement in Rev 19:8 is Scripture, not mine.
"Born-again" touches upon every part of our being: righteous desires, righteous thoughts, and ultimately righteous acts.
Romans 7:21-25 (NIV)
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature[a] a slave to the law of sin.
Footnotes:
a. Romans 7:25 Or in the flesh
Romans 12:1-2 (NIV)
12 Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. 2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
1 Peter 2:11-12 (NIV)
11 Dear friends, I urge you, as foreigners and exiles, to abstain from sinful desires, which wage war against your soul. 12 Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us.
---
That said,
(2) On Gabriella Karin's comment, specifically the bolded (my emphasis)
Quote: Karin continues: “Circumstances sometimes make people do bad things.” She explains that Hitler was an agitator who helped ferment a latent anti-Semitism in Germany. “But God didn’t do it [the Holocaust]. People did it.” Karin’s melodious Slovakian accent gives no hint of a woman who has experienced one of humankind’s worst genocides.
That is incorrect to say. The Holocaust as well was from God. Whether as unmerited suffering like Job, or as punishment for their wickednesses (deviating from the Covenant in defiance). He is the Most High. So, nothing happens to us unless He allows it (even if what He allows is injustice).
Job 27:1-2 (NIV)
27 And Job continued his discourse:
2 “As surely as God lives, who has denied me justice,
the Almighty, who has made my life bitter,
Job certainly knew who to "blame" / "thank" (depending on how you look at it) for what was happening to him, and yet he did not waver in his belief that YHWH punishes the wicked for defiant disobedience too, though Job's suffering was not merited, and their's is deserved (they lose their children, wealth, power because of their wickedness, yet Job has lost all of these despite being innocent).
Note: the rest of Job 27 is Job speaking as well:
Job 27:5-6 (NIV)
5 I will never admit you are in the right;
till I die, I will not deny my integrity.
6 I will maintain my innocence and never let go of it;
my conscience will not reproach me as long as I live.
Job 27:11-23 (NIV)
11 “I will teach you about the power of God;
the ways of the Almighty I will not conceal.
12 You have all seen this yourselves.
Why then this meaningless talk?
13 “Here is the fate God allots to the wicked,
the heritage a ruthless man receives from the Almighty:
14 However many his children, their fate is the sword;
his offspring will never have enough to eat.
15 The plague will bury those who survive him,
and their widows will not weep for them.
16 Though he heaps up silver like dust
and clothes like piles of clay,
17 what he lays up the righteous will wear,
and the innocent will divide his silver.
18 The house he builds is like a moth’s cocoon,
like a hut made by a watchman.
19 He lies down wealthy, but will do so no more;
when he opens his eyes, all is gone.
20 Terrors overtake him like a flood;
a tempest snatches him away in the night.
21 The east wind carries him off, and he is gone;
it sweeps him out of his place.
22 It hurls itself against him without mercy
as he flees headlong from its power.
23 It claps its hands in derision
and hisses him out of his place.”
But Job disassociates his situation with that of the wicked man and holds on to his integrity; they're not the same. So all suffering is from God—be it the righteous who are suffering (despite their uprightness, and desire to obey) or the wicked who are suffering (because of their wickedness, and desire to disobey—who do not keep God in their thoughts and don't want to know Him).
Job overlaps with / shares agreement with his friends about the destiny of the wicked on earth (in general), and God's well-deserved wrath against them (manifested in having all their wealth, children, power taken away), but his friends weren't allowing for the special cases to exist, despite finding examples of it in reality ([1] that some wicked people live a life of ease even if not wanting to serve God [live by His Way of doing, being, thinking], nor wanting to pray to God, which Job addressed in chapter 21, [2] there's also the special case of the righteous suffering, i.e. Job himself, who is also suffering despite not meriting the calamity).
His friends were wrong because they were accusing Job of wickedness that he did not commit, of being wicked when he is not, and accusing him of suffering calamity (that YHWH was sending on him, no one disagreed there [on Who was sending it], but they are wrong here:) as if it were deserved just like the wicked man's when they had no evidence to base that accusation on (and there wouldn't be evidence anyway because he hadn't committed it).
In other words, as it relates to the topic discussed in Job 27, their assessment of how YHWH treats the wicked on earth (in general) was correct, but their application to Job's situation was wrong (which renders their counsel incorrect, because half-right means you're wrong) because, despite losing all his kids, wealth, animals, and power, Job had not committed the wickedness to deserve it. (Then of course, the other scenario that they weren't allowing to be true in their counsel, despite reality corroborating it: the wealthy wicked living at ease despite refusing to keep God in their knowledge i.e. Job 21)
Ergo,
Job 42:7(NIV)
7 After the Lord had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has.
Job knew that YHWH was the source of attacks, on the wicked but also on the righteous as well (what better person to demonstrate that on [that YHWH sends suffering on the righteous] than on Job?).
Job 1:8 (NIV)
8 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.”
So it should have been crystal clear what God was demonstrating. It's not always a cookie-cutter: "innocent will be blessed while living on earth; wicked will be suffering while living on earth". YHWH's Way is more profound than that, as profound as the deepest depths of the sea, the highest heights of the heavens above us which He stretches out with His hands (a point Job also makes in Job 26:7-14).
In light of all that, this holocaust survivor, no offense to her, is wrong and lacking discernment. The Holocaust came from YHWH, just like times of blessing come from YHWH. And the Rabbi's / Rabbonim have speculated as to why the Holocaust happened, some even saying it was because of their own disobedience—and that is, in fact, the orthodox view [Holocaust Theology]. She just doesn't want to believe it, and is instead falling prey to a thought argued by Modern Orthodox Jews, who say it wasn't God. Regardless of the reason why, it definitely was from God, so Modern Orthodox Jews (and this holocaust survivor) are wrong.
Job 2:10 (NIV)
10 He replied, “You are talking like a foolish[a] woman. Shall we accept good from God, and not trouble?”
In all this, Job did not sin in what he said.
Footnotes:
a. Job 2:10 The Hebrew word rendered foolish denotes moral deficiency.
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Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:27 am
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