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What if Jesus meant every word He said? 

Tags: God, Jesus, The Holy Spirit, The Bible, Truth, Love, Eternal Life, Salvation, Faith, Holy, Fellowship, Apologetics 

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so according to the story of the flood in genesis

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Guy37

PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 9:38 pm
the death penalty is christian.. or do some of you say different? I don't know that I posted this in the right subforum.  
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 6:13 am
There is room for capital punishment in Christian theology.
God through Paul and Peter said;

Romans 13:3-5
For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but bad. Do you want to be unafraid of the one in authority? Then do what is right, and you will have his approval. For he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not carry the sword in vain. He is God’s servant, an agent of retribution to the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to authority, not only to avoid punishment, but also as a matter of conscience

1 Peter 2:13-14
Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human institution, whether to the king as the supreme authority, or to governors as those sent by him to punish evildoers and praise well-doers.

In Acts 25 when Paul is accused of wrongdoings that are punishable by death he says;

Acts 25:11
For if I be an offender, or have committed any thing worthy of death, I refuse not to die: but if there be none of these things whereof these accuse me, no man may deliver me to them. I appeal to Caesar.  

Garland-Green

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Biblical_Counselor

PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 9:58 am
I believe in the death penalty and I believe that the Bible supports it. God value human life so much that it says that a man must die if he kills someone. That is the consequence of his actions.

I would be in more of death penalty if they have 100% sure that the guy did it. A lot of people are against it because of the innocent people that are killed, later to be acquitted of the crime after the death.  
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 11:31 am
God does indeed justify the death penalty in Genesis 9:6:
Quote:
Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.


However as a side note, God is not limited by the laws he set for mankind. If God wipes out a people for sinfulness, it does not automatically mean human beings can take it upon themselves to do the same.  

Lady Vizsla


cristobela
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 8:52 pm
edited to clarify diction and grammar (turn some parentheses into brackets) in the summary

If you're asking because of Jesus:

Jesus, as well, was in favour of stoning to death when every detail of the Law was honored:

      • Matthew 15:3-9 (NIV)

        3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’[a] and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’[b] 5 But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is ‘devoted to God,’ 6 they are not to ‘honor their father or mother’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:

        8 “‘These people honor me with their lips,
            but their hearts are far from me.
        9 They worship me in vain;
            their teachings are merely human rules.’[c]”

        Footnotes:

        a. Matthew 15:4 Exodus 20:12; Deut. 5:16
        b. Matthew 15:4 Exodus 21:17; Lev. 20:9
        c. Matthew 15:9 Isaiah 29:13


What, exactly, Jesus rebuked was cherry-picking—not only when people ignored stoning to death when the Law required it and allowed it, as we see in the above example, for the safety/care of the one being wronged in the situation, but also when people still tried to punish to death while ignoring details of the Law that didn't allow them to stone in that situation, but they still wanted to go ahead and do so for their own convenience i.e. the Pharisees wanting to stone the adulteress woman. Where was the adulterer? Why did the Pharisees only bring the adulteress when the Law requires you to bring both the adulterer and the adulteress? Were they actual witnesses of the act or just going by gossip, rumor (thus not actual witnesses)? or worse yet, were they fellow participants, thus the other half of her adultery, who just wanted her—the evidence of their sin—stoned to death?

Lawfully-speaking, it's not the participants, but witnesses, actual witnesses of the act, two to three of them, that makes stoning to death Lawful to carry out (in a nation submitted to YHWH's Law as the law of the land; hence Sanhedrins, courts based on His Law, edified in the land—which only happens when the entire nation agrees to come into covenant with YHWH, agreeing with what He calls sin, and its punishments, not all of which are death, but some are). If all the Lawful criteria isn't met, then we can't stone to death (or punish the sin). We must show the mercy that YHWH's Law inherently allows, and calls us to have, in that situation:

      • Leviticus 20:10 (NIV)

        10 “‘If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.

      • Deuteronomy 17:6 (NIV)

        6 On the testimony of two or three witnesses a person is to be put to death, but no one is to be put to death on the testimony of only one witness.


        Actual witnesses, not fellow participants, but actual witnesses who caught them in the act, are the ones who can bring these allegations to court and have the person capitally punished:

      • Deuteronomy 17:7 (NIV)

        7 The hands of the witnesses must be the first in putting that person to death, and then the hands of all the people. You must purge the evil from among you.


Going by what Jesus said in the account of John 8, we're led to suspect one of two things: that the Pharisees were fellow participants (not witnesses) of the adultery or, if they are not the adulterer-half of the adulteress, then they were just false witnesses (i.e. didn't physically witness the event happen at all), thus why Jesus said, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her" because actual witnesses are the first to stone, but if you're the adulterer half of her case, a participant, then you're not a witness, you're getting stoned to death along with her (for being the one whom she committed adultery with), or if you're a false witness, then you're getting stoned to death instead of her (for being the false witness):

        Death for the adulterer, not just the adulteress

      • Leviticus 20:10 (NIV)

        10 “‘If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.


        Death for the false witness, who didn't actually see anything happen

      • Deuteronomy 19:18-19 (NIV)

        18 The judges must make a thorough investigation, and if the witness proves to be a liar, giving false testimony against a fellow Israelite, 19 then do to the false witness as that witness intended to do to the other party. You must purge the evil from among you.


        The account of the unlawful accusation of the adulteress woman (notice the references to all of the above Lawful details)

      • John 8:3-11 (NIV)

        3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

        But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

        9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

        11 “No one, sir,” she said.

        “Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”


What was Jesus writing down? I think the Law, reminding them of what it actually said in its totality.

And Jesus (YHWH-incarnate) being the only one left, even if she was an adulteress, is not going to stone her. The Law requires mercy in that case, allowing the sinner a chance to repent, because they weren't lawfully caught by two to three actual witnesses. God's Law, contrary to popular belief, is full of mercy. A perfect balance of mercy and justice.

Really, the case with the adulteress woman in John 8 is the only impediment I see preventing mainstream Christianity from accepting the Biblical stance on lawful death penalty (because of how they misinterpret Jesus' words and their ignorance/unawareness of what YHWH's Law states). Once that's cleared—that He's not teaching lawlessness, but upholding the justice AND mercy of His own Law, since He is YHWH-incarnate, and is condemning the cherry-picking of it—it's easy to accept every word that comes out of the mouth of God.

Another problem to those unfamiliar with how God expresses Himself, is the euphemistic phrase "shedding of blood" sometimes used to refer to murder (unlawful killing). But obviously, not all shedding of blood is unlawful killing that requires you to be killed in return (but on the contrary is lawful killing, protecting others in accord with the details of YHWH's Commands, and thus sincerely satisfying justice):

For example...

      • Numbers 35:20-21 (NIV)

        20 If anyone with malice aforethought shoves another or throws something at them intentionally so that they die 21 or if out of enmity one person hits another with their fist so that the other dies, that person is to be put to death; that person is a murderer. The avenger of blood shall put the murderer to death when they meet.


The avenger of blood who sheds the blood of the murderer does not make the avenger of blood a murderer in return, but someone who satisfies justice.

      • Numbers 35:33 (NIV)

        33 “‘Do not pollute the land where you are. Bloodshed pollutes the land, and atonement cannot be made for the land on which blood has been shed, except by the blood of the one who shed it.


And then there's the redemptive shedding of blood that God prophesied to do (again satisfying justice)...

      • Romans 3:25 (NIV)

        25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,[a] through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—

        Footnotes:

        a. Romans 3:25 The Greek for sacrifice of atonement refers to the atonement cover on the ark of the covenant (see Lev. 16:15,16).

      • Colossians 1:20 (NIV)

        20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.


So, just to be clear, the "shedding of blood" when spoken of negatively in Scripture, is referring to murder / unlawful killing done out of selfishness [James 4:2], enmity, and malice, not the kind done to satisfy justice, in adherence to YHWH's Law, which is perfectly fine and morally correct to do when all of its details are honored, because then it's just, legitimate, and merciful.


---


That said, I wanted to add something, in light of what Lady Kariel commented, for clarifying purposes.


Lady Kariel
God does indeed justify the death penalty in Genesis 9:6:
Quote:
Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.


However as a side note, God is not limited by the laws he set for mankind. If God wipes out a people for sinfulness, it does not automatically mean human beings can take it upon themselves to do the same.


For the record, yes, we humans as YHWH's creations cannot interact just any way we feel like with His creations (ourselves included). Creator can kill whomever He wants; we can't. Our only allowable permissions are for reasons stated in YHWH's Law, through the proper channels of authority (and it's all done out of love and protection, to satisfy YHWH's justice).

However, considering how she phrased the underlined (my emphasis), and not to leave you confused or misled of this fact: there are examples of YHWH using people outside of the courts to kill unrepentant sinners and their children, and YHWH does not view them as sinful for doing so, but adhering to His Law, and rendering justice according to His Law.

What He may attack them back for are any sins they commit elsewhere, but not for the act of rendering justice against the nations or even against Israel (i.e. like Assyria or Babylon did in the past), or at other times, using Israel as the hammer in His hands to lawfully execute other nations as well for being in unrepentant sin. Whatever nation is in YHWH's hands to attack another nation, it's to attack another nation in sin, but no favoritism, because if the one He used to attack has sin in themselves, they get attacked later for their own sins in other areas.

Examples:

        Using Israel to attack the other nations/gentiles (again, this is outside of man's courts, but still justice)

      • Genesis 15:16 (NIV)

        16 In the fourth generation your descendants will come back here, for the sin of the Amorites has not yet reached its full measure.”

      • Deuteronomy 20:17 (NIV)

        17 Completely destroy[a] them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you.

        Footnotes:

        a. Deuteronomy 20:17 The Hebrew term refers to the irrevocable giving over of things or persons to the Lord, often by totally destroying them.

      • Deuteronomy 2:31-34 (NIV)

        31 The Lord said to me, “See, I have begun to deliver Sihon and his country over to you. Now begin to conquer and possess his land.”

        32 When Sihon and all his army came out to meet us in battle at Jahaz, 33 the Lord our God delivered him over to us and we struck him down, together with his sons and his whole army. 34 At that time we took all his towns and completely destroyed[a] them—men, women and children. We left no survivors.

        Footnotes:

        a. Deuteronomy 2:34 The Hebrew term refers to the irrevocable giving over of things or persons to the Lord, often by totally destroying them.

      • Deuteronomy 9:3-6 (NIV)

        3 But be assured today that the Lord your God is the one who goes across ahead of you like a devouring fire. He will destroy them; he will subdue them before you. And you will drive them out and annihilate them quickly, as the Lord has promised you.

        4 After the Lord your God has driven them out before you, do not say to yourself, “The Lord has brought me here to take possession of this land because of my righteousness.” No, it is on account of the wickedness of these nations that the Lord is going to drive them out before you. 5 It is not because of your righteousness or your integrity that you are going in to take possession of their land; but on account of the wickedness of these nations, the Lord your God will drive them out before you, to accomplish what he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. 6 Understand, then, that it is not because of your righteousness that the Lord your God is giving you this good land to possess, for you are a stiff-necked people.

      • Leviticus 18:28 (NIV)

        28 And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you.



        Using the nation of Assyria [non-believers, non-Israelite] to attack other nations and the nation of Israel too (thus outside of the courts as well, and again by the hands of men, though this time these men were used by YHWH, unbeknownst to them, to carry this international judgment/divine justice out)

      • Isaiah 10:5-19 (NIV)

        5 “Woe to the Assyrian, the rod of my anger,
            in whose hand is the club of my wrath!
        6 I send him against a godless nation,
            I dispatch him against a people who anger me,
        to seize loot and snatch plunder,
            and to trample them down like mud in the streets.
        7 But this is not what he intends,
            this is not what he has in mind;
        his purpose is to destroy,
            to put an end to many nations.
        8 ‘Are not my commanders all kings?’ he says.
        9 ‘Has not Kalno fared like Carchemish?
        Is not Hamath like Arpad,
            and Samaria like Damascus?
        10 As my hand seized the kingdoms of the idols,
            kingdoms whose images excelled those of Jerusalem and Samaria—
        11 shall I not deal with Jerusalem and her images
            as I dealt with Samaria and her idols?’”

        12 When the Lord has finished all his work against Mount Zion and Jerusalem, he will say, “I will punish the king of Assyria for the willful pride of his heart and the haughty look in his eyes. 13 For he says:

        “‘By the strength of my hand I have done this,
            and by my wisdom, because I have understanding.
        I removed the boundaries of nations,
            I plundered their treasures;
            like a mighty one I subdued[a] their kings.
        14 As one reaches into a nest,
            so my hand reached for the wealth of the nations;
        as people gather abandoned eggs,
            so I gathered all the countries;
        not one flapped a wing,
            or opened its mouth to chirp.’”
        15 Does the ax raise itself above the person who swings it,
            or the saw boast against the one who uses it?
        As if a rod were to wield the person who lifts it up,
            or a club brandish the one who is not wood!
        16 Therefore, the Lord, the Lord Almighty,
            will send a wasting disease upon his sturdy warriors;
        under his pomp a fire will be kindled
            like a blazing flame.
        17 The Light of Israel will become a fire,
            their Holy One a flame;
        in a single day it will burn and consume
            his thorns and his briers.
        18 The splendor of his forests and fertile fields
            it will completely destroy,
            as when a sick person wastes away.
        19 And the remaining trees of his forests will be so few
            that a child could write them down.

        Footnotes:

        a. Isaiah 10:13 Or treasures; / I subdued the mighty,



        Using Babylon, another gentile nation, used by YHWH to attack the other nations and Israel too (outside of the courts, but by the hands of men again, and not all of Israel is correctly interpreting this act of violence being from YHWH Himself)

      • Jeremiah 25:9 (NIV)

        9 I will summon all the peoples of the north and my servant Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon,” declares the Lord, “and I will bring them against this land and its inhabitants and against all the surrounding nations. I will completely destroy[a] them and make them an object of horror and scorn, and an everlasting ruin.

        Footnotes:

        a. Jeremiah 25:9 The Hebrew term refers to the irrevocable giving over of things or persons to the Lord, often by totally destroying them.

      • Jeremiah 21:9-10 (NIV)

        9 Whoever stays in this city will die by the sword, famine or plague. But whoever goes out and surrenders to the Babylonians who are besieging you will live; they will escape with their lives. 10 I have determined to do this city harm and not good, declares the Lord. It will be given into the hands of the king of Babylon, and he will destroy it with fire.’

      • Jeremiah 26:10-16 (NIV)

        10 When the officials of Judah heard about these things, they went up from the royal palace to the house of the Lord and took their places at the entrance of the New Gate of the Lord’s house. 11 Then the priests and the prophets said to the officials and all the people, “This man should be sentenced to death because he has prophesied against this city. You have heard it with your own ears!”

        12 Then Jeremiah said to all the officials and all the people: “The Lord sent me to prophesy against this house and this city all the things you have heard. 13 Now reform your ways and your actions and obey the Lord your God. Then the Lord will relent and not bring the disaster he has pronounced against you. 14 As for me, I am in your hands; do with me whatever you think is good and right. 15 Be assured, however, that if you put me to death, you will bring the guilt of innocent blood on yourselves and on this city and on those who live in it, for in truth the Lord has sent me to you to speak all these words in your hearing.”

        16 Then the officials and all the people said to the priests and the prophets, “This man should not be sentenced to death! He has spoken to us in the name of the Lord our God.”

      • Jeremiah 25:11-12 (NIV)

        11 This whole country will become a desolate wasteland, and these nations will serve the king of Babylon seventy years.

        12 “But when the seventy years are fulfilled, I will punish the king of Babylon and his nation, the land of the Babylonians,[a] for their guilt,” declares the Lord, “and will make it desolate forever.

        Footnotes:

        a. Jeremiah 25:12 Or Chaldeans


YHWH did not say it was wrong for the Israelites to kill off the Canaanites (and their children) for their sins. It was right—Lawful in His eyes. Justice satisfied after they were given generations to repent from their sinful ways. Likewise, YHWH didn't attack Assyria, or call them sinful, for rendering justice against Israel and many other idolatrous nations (even in ignorance that this is what they were doing or being used by YHWH to do)—this isn't wrong/lawless in His eyes—but justice. What YHWH attacked the king of Assyria for, in return, was for his pride: thinking that his conquest was successful due to his own strength, his own intelligence, taking pride in his army, when it was YHWH who was going before him, giving him favour, and the victory, as the means by which YHWH used to punish the deviant nations and His own set-apart (holy) nation, Israel. Similar thing with Babylon—conquering many nations, and Israel too, as punishment for their sins. He was waiting for them to repent no more. It's probably easier to accept when nations with kings (e.g. Assyria, Babylon, etc) wage war like this, and see it as judgment from God, because you recognize the authority, but Israel, back when they had no king, was carrying out stuff like this against the Canaanites, as a nation with an army/militant group, and it wasn't wrong. They were all carrying out YHWH's justice, whether known or unbeknownst to them.

So, for clarity's sake:

Capital punishment / death penalty by the courts or by the avenger of blood (thus, by the lawful, government authorities in the nation) is suppose to be a deterrent to YHWH unleashing mass-scale, earthly judgment/calamity on a nation (or nations, plural). The authorities are to n** the sinful / unlawful behavior in the bud in their nation (and do it lawfully, honoring every detail of the Law, YHWH's or the law of the land), otherwise, YHWH will kill unrepentant sinners en masse through the hands of His other creations (even using humans outside of the courts and who come from outside of their nation to invade and violently attack) to get rid of the unrepentant offenders in their country and for allowing this sin to flourish in their nation—which YHWH gave them plenty of time and warnings beforehand (through other occasions, and previous tragedies) to motivate them to repent / turn away from their sinful ways. The more pervasive the sin, the higher the casualty count.

And that's just the literal sword judgment, there are more:

      • Ezekiel 14:21 (NIV)

        21 “For this is what the Sovereign Lord says: How much worse will it be when I send against Jerusalem my four dreadful judgments—sword and famine and wild beasts and plague—to kill its men and their animals!


I went through this more thoroughly in the following topic (in another guild): [The Divine Judgments of God], going through the verses, and the examples of each kind of earthly judgment in detail, their light and severe manifestations, from verbal to physical, literal and in essence. In addition to how they increase in severity the longer we stay in unrepentant sin.

So, yes, it's in a nation's best interest for their courts to punish crime / sin (sin being Law-breaking in YHWH's eyes, according to YHWH's Law)...

      • 1 John 3:4 (NIV)

        4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.


...and to render capital punishment / death penalty against the crimes/sins meriting death committed by the unrepentant whom YHWH allows to get caught by two to three witnesses, for stubbornly staying in their sins, and to punish them lawfully, so He doesn't have to send tragedy-level earthly judgment on the country (through the hands of other men or other creations) in order to punish the unchecked sin and injustice running rampantly throughout the nation.

      • Psalm 110:6 (NIV)

        6 He will judge the nations, heaping up the dead
        and crushing the rulers of the whole earth.

      • Luke 13:1-5 (NIV)

        13 Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2 Jesus answered, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? 3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. 4 Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”


Not everyone reaps this kind of judgment at the same time (hence the references to survivors whom are told to repent after witnessing [or living through] the tragedy, or they too will perish for continuing to commit the same sins. I addressed that—the timing of the reap being different, how soon or how later—with supporting Bible verses, here in this other topic [Do Good: A Man Reaps What He Sows]).

But again, as it relates to sins meriting death, either:

    (A) capital punishment, thus killing unrepentant sinners (because YHWH allowed two to three actual witnesses to catch these unrepentant sinners in the act of the sin worthy of death) rendered by the courts, and thus avoid nation-wide calamity of this nature, or

    (B) people repenting from wicked ways and thus unrepentant sin is wiped from the land without having to lawfully kill anyone literally, just in spirit, destroying the sinful person they used to be, by becoming born-again through the Word of God and His Holy Spirit, conformed back into His image (ideal scenario)—

      • Romans 8:13 (NIV)

        13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

      • Colossians 3:5-10 (NIV)

        5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.[a] 7 You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8 But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 9 Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices 10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.

        Footnotes:

        a. Colossians 3:6 Some early manuscripts coming on those who are disobedient

      • Ephesians 4:22-24 (NIV)

        22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23 to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24 and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

      • 1 Peter 1:23 (NIV)

        23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

      • Titus 3:5 (NIV)

        5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,


...ridding sin, in either of those two ways, is what deters that nation-wide, tragedy-level, earthly judgment from God, outside of the courts (e.g. other people invading to kill us off [whether or not the world or the rest of the believing nation is able to recognize that the people who are attacking have been given this authority/favour by God [or not] to do so—YHWH knows and it'll be evident by their success against the nation).

      • Acts 5:39 (NIV)

        39 But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.”


For example, as quoted earlier, how certain Israelites refused to believe that Babylon, their unbelieving enemies, were being sent against them. But instead of accepting this as rebuke from God, they tried to resist the Babylonian army and wouldn't accept the prophet Jeremiah's message, at first, thinking that Jeremiah instead should be punished for daring to speak calamity, the truth of YHWH, the calamity He promised at the hands of their enemies. To them, if it's not pleasing news, then Jeremiah must be wishing death upon them and cursing them for speaking such words, instead of what it actually was: just merely describing what YHWH said would happen if they didn't repent emotion_sweatdrop And it is what happened, as YHWH said).

As long as there are unrepentant people in the land committing sins worthy of death, and the courts are not punishing them, those earthly judgments will be unleashed, often through the hands of other humans (and other nations, if our own has stopped punishing it) and YHWH does not hold those humans guilty for punishing sin according to His Law. What He holds against them is whatever sins are present in them (which He does attack as well, no favoritism, as you saw with Assyria earlier in this reply. And same thing with Babylon, and Israel).

      • 1 Chronicles 5:25-26 (NIV)

        25 But they were unfaithful to the God of their ancestors and prostituted themselves to the gods of the peoples of the land, whom God had destroyed before them. 26 So the God of Israel stirred up the spirit of Pul king of Assyria (that is, Tiglath-Pileser king of Assyria), who took the Reubenites, the Gadites and the half-tribe of Manasseh into exile. He took them to Halah, Habor, Hara and the river of Gozan, where they are to this day.


---


So, in summary of everything I said: there is a type of killing that is lawful and a type of killing that is not. People killed, and still—to this day—are being used by YHWH to kill in a lawful manner, in order to render justice in YHWH's eyes, in and outside of man's courts, even at the hands of unbelievers and/or foreigners. He does not hold them guilty for that act of rendering justice according to His Law or the law of the land (even if they don't know how they're being used to carry out this lawful—in YHWH's eyes—punishment and prophesied punishment against unrepentant sin [e.g. Assyria]. Even Jesus/YHWH-incarnate in the New Testament upheld this Lawful punishment [in man's courts] and spoke of the judgment outside of man's courts the latter of which we'll succumb to as earthly judgment from YHWH at the hands of fellow creation [human and otherwise]).

      • Revelation 6:3-4 (NIV)

        3 When the Lamb opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say, “Come!” 4 Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make people kill each other. To him was given a large sword.

      • Revelation 6:8 (NIV)

        8 I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.

      • Revelation 9:20-21 (NIV)

        20 The rest of mankind who were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood—idols that cannot see or hear or walk. 21 Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts.


If you want to know more about how YHWH renders divine judgment, to judge everyone—believer and unbeliever alike—on earth (and even in the realm of the dead), then read through the topics I linked to in this reply for the verses. If humans will be punishing sin on earth, however, then they are actually suppose to punish (or have mercy) on sin like God (this latter concept more fully illustrated by the verses in the latter topic [Do Good: A Man Reaps What He Sows], at the very least by those who know God.
 
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