I blame Lupin III

[Keisaku Hakurei]

I grew up with main characters who were either successful good guys, or unsuccessful bad guys.

Then along came a certain theif named Lupin III. Over the long run of his series he stole numerous objects of great value, including the famous 60 foot Jesus statue no less. He was awesome. No... he still is awesome.

Along came the Star Wars prequel trilogy... specifically the third movie. The first two movies treated Anakin like a hero, then the third one had him turning to the dark side. But in my mind Anakin/Vader had been permanently been engraved as a hero and heroes can commit no wrongdoing. Ergo, I laughed and cheered as he killed the filthy Jedi younglings and wanted Obi-Wan to die in the lava for acting like a villain by opposing the Great Lord Vader.

Another series with a protagonist with antagonist-like traits... Death Note. Light Yagami plans on ridding the world of evil by killing evildoers. In the process he makes enemies so he has to kill them too.

Eh, that's how things worked in the Bible, so I see nothing wrong with Light's logic. I went so far as to stop watching the series after finding out Light dies as a pathetic-looking failure.  

[Different...Very.]

Did you see Law-Abiding Citizen?

Sometimes I wonder if that's a writing/filming tool. Making the audience relate or sympathize with who seems to be the bad guy.  

[Bao Sanniang]

Different...Very.

Did you see Law-Abiding Citizen?

Sometimes I wonder if that's a writing/filming tool. Making the audience relate or sympathize with who seems to be the bad guy.

Never even heard of Law-Abiding Citizen.

Though I say there are far too few heroes who are so willing to do whatever it takes to rid the world of badness that they use methods to stop crimes similar to those used by villains for crimes. I'd also like to see said heroes enjoy doing those things and go so far as to act in a way that pours salt and citrus juice in the villain's wounds.

I would love to see more good guys steal a bad guy's weapons then impale him in the chest, twist the weapon around causing more tissue/organ damage, and then slowly remove the weapon so as to open up the wound, leaving the person to both bleed to death and suffer horribly in the process. twisted

Why be merciful to those who cause good people misery and/or suffering?  

[Different...Very.]

I had another example, but I don't remember anymore.

But uhm, they feel that if they did something just heinous to get revenge, they'd be just as bad. Didn't you see Spider-Man? lol. I think that was the moral.  

[pirulaso]

Lunar Rabbit Reisen

I grew up with main characters who were either successful good guys, or unsuccessful bad guys.

Then along came a certain theif named Lupin III. Over the long run of his series he stole numerous objects of great value, including the famous 60 foot Jesus statue no less. He was awesome. No... he still is awesome.

Along came the Star Wars prequel trilogy... specifically the third movie. The first two movies treated Anakin like a hero, then the third one had him turning to the dark side. But in my mind Anakin/Vader had been permanently been engraved as a hero and heroes can commit no wrongdoing. Ergo, I laughed and cheered as he killed the filthy Jedi younglings and wanted Obi-Wan to die in the lava for acting like a villain by opposing the Great Lord Vader.

Another series with a protagonist with antagonist-like traits... Death Note. Light Yagami plans on ridding the world of evil by killing evildoers. In the process he makes enemies so he has to kill them too.

Eh, that's how things worked in the Bible, so I see nothing wrong with Light's logic. I went so far as to stop watching the series after finding out Light dies as a pathetic-looking failure.

Well Anakin's acting was so bad, no matter what, I wanted him to die.

I wouldn't nessecarily say he's the main character either... In the first episode, he's introduced like halfway through the film. If anything, Obi Wan is the main character of the trilogy before it moves on to Luke.

Anakin for me was this awkward lustful kid who grew up to be an awkward lustful adult.


Being able to sympathize with the villain isn't a bad thing mind you. Its actually more realistic. Most people have reasons for their actions, they believe in what they're doing. It's what makes them 3 dimensional characters instead of cliches. In the end, its their actions no matter what that makes them bad.

Lupin rarely if ever kills people. Light murdered good people when he was afraid he was going to get caught. Which in my mind makes him a douche.  

[Bao Sanniang]

pirulaso

Lunar Rabbit Reisen

I grew up with main characters who were either successful good guys, or unsuccessful bad guys.

Then along came a certain theif named Lupin III. Over the long run of his series he stole numerous objects of great value, including the famous 60 foot Jesus statue no less. He was awesome. No... he still is awesome.

Along came the Star Wars prequel trilogy... specifically the third movie. The first two movies treated Anakin like a hero, then the third one had him turning to the dark side. But in my mind Anakin/Vader had been permanently been engraved as a hero and heroes can commit no wrongdoing. Ergo, I laughed and cheered as he killed the filthy Jedi younglings and wanted Obi-Wan to die in the lava for acting like a villain by opposing the Great Lord Vader.

Another series with a protagonist with antagonist-like traits... Death Note. Light Yagami plans on ridding the world of evil by killing evildoers. In the process he makes enemies so he has to kill them too.

Eh, that's how things worked in the Bible, so I see nothing wrong with Light's logic. I went so far as to stop watching the series after finding out Light dies as a pathetic-looking failure.

Well Anakin's acting was so bad, no matter what, I wanted him to die.

I wouldn't nessecarily say he's the main character either... In the first episode, he's introduced like halfway through the film. If anything, Obi Wan is the main character of the trilogy before it moves on to Luke.

Anakin for me was this awkward lustful kid who grew up to be an awkward lustful adult.


Being able to sympathize with the villain isn't a bad thing mind you. Its actually more realistic. Most people have reasons for their actions, they believe in what they're doing. It's what makes them 3 dimensional characters instead of cliches. In the end, its their actions no matter what that makes them bad.

Lupin rarely if ever kills people. Light murdered good people when he was afraid he was going to get caught. Which in my mind makes him a douche.

I consider opposing the main character to be just as evil as doing evil things. The main character determines what's right and wrong and must never be questioned.  

[pirulaso]

Rei Inaba

pirulaso

Lunar Rabbit Reisen

I grew up with main characters who were either successful good guys, or unsuccessful bad guys.

Then along came a certain theif named Lupin III. Over the long run of his series he stole numerous objects of great value, including the famous 60 foot Jesus statue no less. He was awesome. No... he still is awesome.

Along came the Star Wars prequel trilogy... specifically the third movie. The first two movies treated Anakin like a hero, then the third one had him turning to the dark side. But in my mind Anakin/Vader had been permanently been engraved as a hero and heroes can commit no wrongdoing. Ergo, I laughed and cheered as he killed the filthy Jedi younglings and wanted Obi-Wan to die in the lava for acting like a villain by opposing the Great Lord Vader.

Another series with a protagonist with antagonist-like traits... Death Note. Light Yagami plans on ridding the world of evil by killing evildoers. In the process he makes enemies so he has to kill them too.

Eh, that's how things worked in the Bible, so I see nothing wrong with Light's logic. I went so far as to stop watching the series after finding out Light dies as a pathetic-looking failure.

Well Anakin's acting was so bad, no matter what, I wanted him to die.

I wouldn't nessecarily say he's the main character either... In the first episode, he's introduced like halfway through the film. If anything, Obi Wan is the main character of the trilogy before it moves on to Luke.

Anakin for me was this awkward lustful kid who grew up to be an awkward lustful adult.


Being able to sympathize with the villain isn't a bad thing mind you. Its actually more realistic. Most people have reasons for their actions, they believe in what they're doing. It's what makes them 3 dimensional characters instead of cliches. In the end, its their actions no matter what that makes them bad.

Lupin rarely if ever kills people. Light murdered good people when he was afraid he was going to get caught. Which in my mind makes him a douche.

I consider opposing the main character to be just as evil as doing evil things. The main character determines what's right and wrong and must never be questioned.

Ha, I can't tell if that was serious or not...

That's a little fanatical. I understand protagonist doesn't nessecarily mean hero, but that doesn't mean you have to be one with him either... That's idea behind free will... Or watching movies like Ed Gein... I don't think the director wanted you to go kill old ladies afterwards, just understand why he does it.  

[Bao Sanniang]

pirulaso

Rei Inaba

pirulaso

Lunar Rabbit Reisen

I grew up with main characters who were either successful good guys, or unsuccessful bad guys.

Then along came a certain theif named Lupin III. Over the long run of his series he stole numerous objects of great value, including the famous 60 foot Jesus statue no less. He was awesome. No... he still is awesome.

Along came the Star Wars prequel trilogy... specifically the third movie. The first two movies treated Anakin like a hero, then the third one had him turning to the dark side. But in my mind Anakin/Vader had been permanently been engraved as a hero and heroes can commit no wrongdoing. Ergo, I laughed and cheered as he killed the filthy Jedi younglings and wanted Obi-Wan to die in the lava for acting like a villain by opposing the Great Lord Vader.

Another series with a protagonist with antagonist-like traits... Death Note. Light Yagami plans on ridding the world of evil by killing evildoers. In the process he makes enemies so he has to kill them too.

Eh, that's how things worked in the Bible, so I see nothing wrong with Light's logic. I went so far as to stop watching the series after finding out Light dies as a pathetic-looking failure.

Well Anakin's acting was so bad, no matter what, I wanted him to die.

I wouldn't nessecarily say he's the main character either... In the first episode, he's introduced like halfway through the film. If anything, Obi Wan is the main character of the trilogy before it moves on to Luke.

Anakin for me was this awkward lustful kid who grew up to be an awkward lustful adult.


Being able to sympathize with the villain isn't a bad thing mind you. Its actually more realistic. Most people have reasons for their actions, they believe in what they're doing. It's what makes them 3 dimensional characters instead of cliches. In the end, its their actions no matter what that makes them bad.

Lupin rarely if ever kills people. Light murdered good people when he was afraid he was going to get caught. Which in my mind makes him a douche.

I consider opposing the main character to be just as evil as doing evil things. The main character determines what's right and wrong and must never be questioned.

Ha, I can't tell if that was serious or not...

That's a little fanatical. I understand protagonist doesn't nessecarily mean hero, but that doesn't mean you have to be one with him either... That's idea behind free will... Or watching movies like Ed Gein... I don't think the director wanted you to go kill old ladies afterwards, just understand why he does it.

I despise seeing the protagonist's endeavors end in failure. At least in Cowboy Bebop Spike finally beat Vicious... but in Death Note and Star Wars 1-3 the main character ended up a failure.

I avoid most of Shakespeare, despise opera, and a bunch of other "classic" stories and forms of art because they end in tragedy for the main character(s). I don't care if the person is punching babies or saving the whole world... I want the person to win in the end.  

[pirulaso]

Rei Inaba

pirulaso

Rei Inaba

pirulaso

Lunar Rabbit Reisen

I grew up with main characters who were either successful good guys, or unsuccessful bad guys.

Then along came a certain theif named Lupin III. Over the long run of his series he stole numerous objects of great value, including the famous 60 foot Jesus statue no less. He was awesome. No... he still is awesome.

Along came the Star Wars prequel trilogy... specifically the third movie. The first two movies treated Anakin like a hero, then the third one had him turning to the dark side. But in my mind Anakin/Vader had been permanently been engraved as a hero and heroes can commit no wrongdoing. Ergo, I laughed and cheered as he killed the filthy Jedi younglings and wanted Obi-Wan to die in the lava for acting like a villain by opposing the Great Lord Vader.

Another series with a protagonist with antagonist-like traits... Death Note. Light Yagami plans on ridding the world of evil by killing evildoers. In the process he makes enemies so he has to kill them too.

Eh, that's how things worked in the Bible, so I see nothing wrong with Light's logic. I went so far as to stop watching the series after finding out Light dies as a pathetic-looking failure.

Well Anakin's acting was so bad, no matter what, I wanted him to die.

I wouldn't nessecarily say he's the main character either... In the first episode, he's introduced like halfway through the film. If anything, Obi Wan is the main character of the trilogy before it moves on to Luke.

Anakin for me was this awkward lustful kid who grew up to be an awkward lustful adult.


Being able to sympathize with the villain isn't a bad thing mind you. Its actually more realistic. Most people have reasons for their actions, they believe in what they're doing. It's what makes them 3 dimensional characters instead of cliches. In the end, its their actions no matter what that makes them bad.

Lupin rarely if ever kills people. Light murdered good people when he was afraid he was going to get caught. Which in my mind makes him a douche.

I consider opposing the main character to be just as evil as doing evil things. The main character determines what's right and wrong and must never be questioned.

Ha, I can't tell if that was serious or not...

That's a little fanatical. I understand protagonist doesn't nessecarily mean hero, but that doesn't mean you have to be one with him either... That's idea behind free will... Or watching movies like Ed Gein... I don't think the director wanted you to go kill old ladies afterwards, just understand why he does it.

I despise seeing the protagonist's endeavors end in failure. At least in Cowboy Bebop Spike finally beat Vicious... but in Death Note and Star Wars 1-3 the main character ended up a failure.

I avoid most of Shakespeare, despise opera, and a bunch of other "classic" stories and forms of art because they end in tragedy for the main character(s). I don't care if the person is punching babies or saving the whole world... I want the person to win in the end.

Ha, that is one hell of a success-driven mentality  

[Bao Sanniang]

pirulaso

Rei Inaba

pirulaso

Rei Inaba

pirulaso

Lunar Rabbit Reisen

I grew up with main characters who were either successful good guys, or unsuccessful bad guys.

Then along came a certain theif named Lupin III. Over the long run of his series he stole numerous objects of great value, including the famous 60 foot Jesus statue no less. He was awesome. No... he still is awesome.

Along came the Star Wars prequel trilogy... specifically the third movie. The first two movies treated Anakin like a hero, then the third one had him turning to the dark side. But in my mind Anakin/Vader had been permanently been engraved as a hero and heroes can commit no wrongdoing. Ergo, I laughed and cheered as he killed the filthy Jedi younglings and wanted Obi-Wan to die in the lava for acting like a villain by opposing the Great Lord Vader.

Another series with a protagonist with antagonist-like traits... Death Note. Light Yagami plans on ridding the world of evil by killing evildoers. In the process he makes enemies so he has to kill them too.

Eh, that's how things worked in the Bible, so I see nothing wrong with Light's logic. I went so far as to stop watching the series after finding out Light dies as a pathetic-looking failure.

Well Anakin's acting was so bad, no matter what, I wanted him to die.

I wouldn't nessecarily say he's the main character either... In the first episode, he's introduced like halfway through the film. If anything, Obi Wan is the main character of the trilogy before it moves on to Luke.

Anakin for me was this awkward lustful kid who grew up to be an awkward lustful adult.


Being able to sympathize with the villain isn't a bad thing mind you. Its actually more realistic. Most people have reasons for their actions, they believe in what they're doing. It's what makes them 3 dimensional characters instead of cliches. In the end, its their actions no matter what that makes them bad.

Lupin rarely if ever kills people. Light murdered good people when he was afraid he was going to get caught. Which in my mind makes him a douche.

I consider opposing the main character to be just as evil as doing evil things. The main character determines what's right and wrong and must never be questioned.

Ha, I can't tell if that was serious or not...

That's a little fanatical. I understand protagonist doesn't nessecarily mean hero, but that doesn't mean you have to be one with him either... That's idea behind free will... Or watching movies like Ed Gein... I don't think the director wanted you to go kill old ladies afterwards, just understand why he does it.

I despise seeing the protagonist's endeavors end in failure. At least in Cowboy Bebop Spike finally beat Vicious... but in Death Note and Star Wars 1-3 the main character ended up a failure.

I avoid most of Shakespeare, despise opera, and a bunch of other "classic" stories and forms of art because they end in tragedy for the main character(s). I don't care if the person is punching babies or saving the whole world... I want the person to win in the end.

Ha, that is one hell of a success-driven mentality

Is there something wrong with wanting to see a person be successful even if he or she is a baby puncher or a mass murderer?  

[pirulaso]

Rei Inaba

pirulaso

Rei Inaba

pirulaso

Rei Inaba

I consider opposing the main character to be just as evil as doing evil things. The main character determines what's right and wrong and must never be questioned.

Ha, I can't tell if that was serious or not...

That's a little fanatical. I understand protagonist doesn't nessecarily mean hero, but that doesn't mean you have to be one with him either... That's idea behind free will... Or watching movies like Ed Gein... I don't think the director wanted you to go kill old ladies afterwards, just understand why he does it.

I despise seeing the protagonist's endeavors end in failure. At least in Cowboy Bebop Spike finally beat Vicious... but in Death Note and Star Wars 1-3 the main character ended up a failure.

I avoid most of Shakespeare, despise opera, and a bunch of other "classic" stories and forms of art because they end in tragedy for the main character(s). I don't care if the person is punching babies or saving the whole world... I want the person to win in the end.

Ha, that is one hell of a success-driven mentality

Is there something wrong with wanting to see a person be successful even if he or she is a baby puncher or a mass murderer?

The anthropologist in me says no.

My personal opinion says, that just seems illogical if you don't like the main character. Don't get me wrong, American Psycho made hooker killing fun and cheeky, but if a movie about Hitler comes out, I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be rooting for him.. Or do you always like the main character no matter what?  

[Bao Sanniang]

pirulaso

Rei Inaba

pirulaso

Rei Inaba

pirulaso

Rei Inaba

I consider opposing the main character to be just as evil as doing evil things. The main character determines what's right and wrong and must never be questioned.

Ha, I can't tell if that was serious or not...

That's a little fanatical. I understand protagonist doesn't nessecarily mean hero, but that doesn't mean you have to be one with him either... That's idea behind free will... Or watching movies like Ed Gein... I don't think the director wanted you to go kill old ladies afterwards, just understand why he does it.

I despise seeing the protagonist's endeavors end in failure. At least in Cowboy Bebop Spike finally beat Vicious... but in Death Note and Star Wars 1-3 the main character ended up a failure.

I avoid most of Shakespeare, despise opera, and a bunch of other "classic" stories and forms of art because they end in tragedy for the main character(s). I don't care if the person is punching babies or saving the whole world... I want the person to win in the end.

Ha, that is one hell of a success-driven mentality

Is there something wrong with wanting to see a person be successful even if he or she is a baby puncher or a mass murderer?

The anthropologist in me says no.

My personal opinion says, that just seems illogical if you don't like the main character. Don't get me wrong, American Psycho made hooker killing fun and cheeky, but if a movie about Hitler comes out, I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be rooting for him.. Or do you always like the main character no matter what?

Don't know. Hitler I might draw the line at.  

[pirulaso]

Rei Inaba

pirulaso

Rei Inaba

pirulaso

Rei Inaba

I despise seeing the protagonist's endeavors end in failure. At least in Cowboy Bebop Spike finally beat Vicious... but in Death Note and Star Wars 1-3 the main character ended up a failure.

I avoid most of Shakespeare, despise opera, and a bunch of other "classic" stories and forms of art because they end in tragedy for the main character(s). I don't care if the person is punching babies or saving the whole world... I want the person to win in the end.

Ha, that is one hell of a success-driven mentality

Is there something wrong with wanting to see a person be successful even if he or she is a baby puncher or a mass murderer?

The anthropologist in me says no.

My personal opinion says, that just seems illogical if you don't like the main character. Don't get me wrong, American Psycho made hooker killing fun and cheeky, but if a movie about Hitler comes out, I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be rooting for him.. Or do you always like the main character no matter what?

Don't know. Hitler I might draw the line at.

Something to think about I guess  

[Matasoga]

pirulaso

Rei Inaba

pirulaso

Rei Inaba

pirulaso

Rei Inaba

I despise seeing the protagonist's endeavors end in failure. At least in Cowboy Bebop Spike finally beat Vicious... but in Death Note and Star Wars 1-3 the main character ended up a failure.

I avoid most of Shakespeare, despise opera, and a bunch of other "classic" stories and forms of art because they end in tragedy for the main character(s). I don't care if the person is punching babies or saving the whole world... I want the person to win in the end.

Ha, that is one hell of a success-driven mentality

Is there something wrong with wanting to see a person be successful even if he or she is a baby puncher or a mass murderer?

The anthropologist in me says no.

My personal opinion says, that just seems illogical if you don't like the main character. Don't get me wrong, American Psycho made hooker killing fun and cheeky, but if a movie about Hitler comes out, I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be rooting for him.. Or do you always like the main character no matter what?

Don't know. Hitler I might draw the line at.

Something to think about I guess

I emphatically agree with you, Piru. While anti-heroes are always preferred and shades of gray are the only morality that I believe in (in fiction or reality), I detested Light with the passion of a thousand suns. I disagreed with the killing, I didn't care for his overall character, but it was really his insufferably endless, and suffocatingly pompous, self-righteousness that had be giggling with glee while I watched him meet such a pitiful end.
Arrogance will make me want to see a character suffer a set-bac, bigotry will make me wish death on a character, but it is self-righteousness that will make me want that end to hurt the most. Disney fans will remember Frollo. (I understand that the book is different, so I'll leave literature aside, at this point.) That man died far too quick a death.  

[pirulaso]

Matasoga

pirulaso

Rei Inaba

pirulaso

Rei Inaba

Is there something wrong with wanting to see a person be successful even if he or she is a baby puncher or a mass murderer?

The anthropologist in me says no.

My personal opinion says, that just seems illogical if you don't like the main character. Don't get me wrong, American Psycho made hooker killing fun and cheeky, but if a movie about Hitler comes out, I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be rooting for him.. Or do you always like the main character no matter what?

Don't know. Hitler I might draw the line at.

Something to think about I guess

I emphatically agree with you, Piru. While anti-heroes are always preferred and shades of gray are the only morality that I believe in (in fiction or reality), I detested Light with the passion of a thousand suns. I disagreed with the killing, I didn't care for his overall character, but it was really his insufferably endless, and suffocatingly pompous, self-righteousness that had be giggling with glee while I watched him meet such a pitiful end.
Arrogance will make me want to see a character suffer a set-bac, bigotry will make me wish death on a character, but it is self-righteousness that will make me want that end to hurt the most. Disney fans will remember Frollo. (I understand that the book is different, so I'll leave literature aside, at this point.) That man died far too quick a death.

Ha, that's funny. Disney usually goes with the gruesome villain death too.

And yeah, I watched most of deathnote just to watch Light get it. He was soooooo douichy. There wasn't any real likable characters in the show for me. I just found the concept of L too unrealistic... Ha, I understand that's nit picky considering there was giant invisible death monsters