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Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 5:57 am
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Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 7:00 am
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Moon Rabbit Reisen You know how the Nazis would kill people who had obvious hereditary defects? While I don't think such people deserved to die, I do think the human race would be a lot better off if people who had things like bad eyesight, hereditary blindness or deafness, mental/psychological disorders, and other hereditary problems that cripple a person's ability to function in life were not allowed to reproduce. In my world, people like that would be given mandatory vasectomies or tube-tyings to make for a stronger human race. Eugenics isn't necessarily a bad thing. Imagine how much better off genetically people would be if such traits weren't passed on. Heck, I have autism and near-sightedness and feel I thus have no right to sire children. 3nodding Discuss. Note how I included myself as a person who shouldn't reproduce.
While I understand your point of view to an extent, I refuse to acknowledge Nazi hatred as anything but the very worst humans represent and I'd hate to think that someone who seems as sensible as you would not see what the Nazi's did as purely evil. I don't agree.
Remember that to consider genetically superior traits for some people will involve race and possibly social status. I can't go for those as references.
Remember that the Nazis were racists in the purest sense. Recall that for them the prefect traits existed in the "Aryan" races. I surely am not Aryan and trust me, I'm pretty special.
Remember that without some forms of mental illness (like bipolar, which I have) we may not have seem the brilliance of people like Robin Williams or Kay Redfield Jamison.
Of course, many of us would like to get rid of the sociopaths and rapists and if eugenics could help, it sounds tempting.
I think it's frankly a presumptious and rather ignorant sentiment to believe that we could predict who will be "worthwhile" and who wouldn't be. I think that using factors like being predisposed to mental illness etc. to determine who should have reproduce is some of what is wrong with humanity.
I'll take life and diversity anyday. And, I'm having babies, many if I can and they'll all add their significant, diverse and necessary parts to a world dying of ignorance.
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Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 7:14 am
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Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 7:55 am
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Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:02 am
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Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:52 am
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Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:38 pm
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Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:20 am
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Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 1:10 am
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Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:39 am
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Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:16 am
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You assume that everyone with disabilities has a hard time functioning in the real world or "contributing to society", but that just isn't the case. Remember, there are various degrees in which a person can be affected by their disability. Some people may show little to no signs of having a disability at all despite having one. Others, though theirs may affect them more, will strive to be seen as more than their disability and thus find ways to work around it and with it.
Sure it may be easier if they did not have it, but that does not mean they are not just as capable as a person without. At times, there are those who are actually -more- capable of handling certain situations because of their disability. The reason being that those born without disabilities take things for granted and feel they have no reason or need to work harder, whereas some find their disability as a motivational tool to help them become a better person to prove to others and themselves that their lives hold just as much worth as anyone else's.
Humans are intelligent and adaptable beings. Having some kind of "flaw" or "defect" will not necessarily hold them back from excelling. What seems to impair people the most, regardless of genetics, is self-confidence. When a person thinks that they are "crippled" in some way {be it genetically, emotionally, physically, psychologically, or what have you} and that there is no possible way to for them to excel because of it, this belief that they are not capable is what hinders their abilities more than anything else.
This actually kind of reminds me of the whole "mind over matter" concept, which I have seen in action. There was a game that some girls at my middle school liked to play in which they would have someone sit in a chair, then one girl put just a couple of fingers under one armpit, another girl on the other armpit, and then the other two girls under the knees. I don't remember what it was they would chant, but they would chant something a few times and then lift the person off the chair, each just using two fingers. Normally this would not seem physically possible, and it wasn't possible if they tried without chanting this phrase. However, because they had such a strong belief that this phrase held some kind of "magic", they were able to do what seemed impossible. They had even lifted me once... rather high too. I was completely surprised.
I find it interesting that you have disregarded all those who have disagreed as "non-scientific". To be "scientific", you have to account for all factors and variables in a situation before you reach a logical conclusion. In your reasoning, you are leaving out a very important variable to the situation: human ambition. As long as someone is determined they are fully capable of doing something, they will find a way to accomplish it.
That being the case, if you know full well that a person with disabilities can function just as well as a person without {obviously depending on the level of affliction}, do you still find it completely justifiable to strip these people of human rights for the sake of your idea of "the perfect world"?
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Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:07 am
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ThisEmptySoul You assume that everyone with disabilities has a hard time functioning in the real world or "contributing to society", but that just isn't the case. Remember, there are various degrees in which a person can be affected by their disability. Some people may show little to no signs of having a disability at all despite having one. Others, though theirs may affect them more, will strive to be seen as more than their disability and thus find ways to work around it and with it.
Sure it may be easier if they did not have it, but that does not mean they are not just as capable as a person without. At times, there are those who are actually -more- capable of handling certain situations because of their disability. The reason being that those born without disabilities take things for granted and feel they have no reason or need to work harder, whereas some find their disability as a motivational tool to help them become a better person to prove to others and themselves that their lives hold just as much worth as anyone else's.
Humans are intelligent and adaptable beings. Having some kind of "flaw" or "defect" will not necessarily hold them back from excelling. What seems to impair people the most, regardless of genetics, is self-confidence. When a person thinks that they are "crippled" in some way {be it genetically, emotionally, physically, psychologically, or what have you} and that there is no possible way to for them to excel because of it, this belief that they are not capable is what hinders their abilities more than anything else.
This actually kind of reminds me of the whole "mind over matter" concept, which I have seen in action. There was a game that some girls at my middle school liked to play in which they would have someone sit in a chair, then one girl put just a couple of fingers under one armpit, another girl on the other armpit, and then the other two girls under the knees. I don't remember what it was they would chant, but they would chant something a few times and then lift the person off the chair, each just using two fingers. Normally this would not seem physically possible, and it wasn't possible if they tried without chanting this phrase. However, because they had such a strong belief that this phrase held some kind of "magic", they were able to do what seemed impossible. They had even lifted me once... rather high too. I was completely surprised.
I find it interesting that you have disregarded all those who have disagreed as "non-scientific". To be "scientific", you have to account for all factors and variables in a situation before you reach a logical conclusion. In your reasoning, you are leaving out a very important variable to the situation: human ambition. As long as someone is determined they are fully capable of doing something, they will find a way to accomplish it.
That being the case, if you know full well that a person with disabilities can function just as well as a person without {obviously depending on the level of affliction}, do you still find it completely justifiable to strip these people of human rights for the sake of your idea of "the perfect world"?
So... people with hereditary disabilities work harder to outdo "normal" people? I see.
I've been thinking that maybe such thinking is the result of my resentment of falling into that category myself. The idea that nobody deserves to be born with disabilities.
I still wouldn't want to go to the work of raising a learning-disabled child though. Almost twice as much work as raising a "normal" child.
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Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:38 am
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Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:38 am
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Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:43 am
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