Government Plan for National Defict

[xena91388]

For those of you who don't know what the deficit is, Click Here!

Ok, I was watching the news this morning and apparently the government's plan (besides Obama begging China for money, still pissed about that.) is to:

1) Reduce tax returns

2) Decrease military spending

3) Push the Social Security retirement age to 68

. . . . .

WTF!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

The only way we can every really start getting rid of the debt is to become an independent country! The problem with our debt and economy is not the taxes or military, but foreign manufactured goods! Do you know why China has the highest economy in the world? BECAUSE EVERYTHING IS FREAKING MADE THERE! Sure it makes stuff cheaper for consumers but the quality is crap (causing us to spend more), takes jobs away from Americans, and when our import exceeds our export (many Asian countries have embargoes on importing American products) THEN OUR ECONOMY FREAKING SUFFERS AND WE BORROW MORE MONEY TO MAKE OUR DEBT BIGGER!

It's like a little kid with a credit card! They will spend it all and not produce anything valuable to make up for their expenses.

K, post your thoughts here  

[xena91388]

Everything I ever needed to know in life, I learned by watching tv.

Specifically, School House Rock! rofl  

[Matasoga]

Yes, I'd say that your political credibility is indicated by your rainbow pigtails, "glomp me" sign, and admission that all of your political knowledge began and ended with Schoolhouse Rock. I can't discredit you any more than you already have.
And that's what I think.  

[FireSpark]

Now, now, now. No need for the personal attacks. Instead of defaming, how about educating.

Such as how despite the fact that everyone seems to think that the best thing in the world would be for the USA to be rid of its budget defecit, this couldn't be further from the truth. As bizarre as it may seem, even to me, defecit is what drives the baseline of our economy. In its simplest form, our national debt allows over governments to make deals with us, which in turn places their economy in a strong position so that they can deal with other nations, and so on. Thus when the sub-prime market crashed and burned before anybody realized what was going on, and the entire US economy went into a recession (which G.W. Bush still probably thinks is just exaggeration), economy's all across the world went into nose dives. On the small scale: we owe people money, so therefore they buy into our economy. When we do good, they do good, and then buy into our economy even more.

If we had no debt,there would be no imbalance to the system, and it would be likely to stagnate. Since the first use of a monetary system, the whole shebang has always depended on someone owing somebody.

As to the jobs thing, that's a little more of a yes and no answer. The bare bonesofit is: Yes, we could pull those jobs back to the States, where it would then cost businesses more to produce the same quantity of items, and thereby drive prices up, and thereby reducing the amount of money they could make, at which point they make less of the items. Since they make less of the items, they don't need as many workers, and so people get laid off. And now you're back where you started.

What has o happen to make more jobs, is for industry innovations. More jobs will come along when new technologies create new industries. Right now, we are in transitino. We just have to hang in there until the private sector manages to pull itself around.

And as to embargoes, you might want to google a little harder next time. There are currently only two Asian countries with embargoes, North Korea (by the US and the UN), and China (by the EU). And those are both just partial embargoes dealing mainly with armaments and weapon technologies. Everybody wants products from the USA. We make some hot schtuff here. It just doesn't seem that way because most my generation, andt he one following me up had become so accustomed to a high level of goods accessibility, that this new market of scarcity and low production is something we see as "not normal".

Well trust me, it wasn't always this good past. But just like all the times before, things will improve again. They always do.  

[xena91388]

1) You are a skeleton in a suit with a hat that has bat wings and a snake by your feet. That's hardly anymore credible than rainbow pigtails. (Plus, I go out of my way to make my avatar weird or sickeningly "cute", I'm rather fond of my exploding egg outfit)

2) School House Rock kicks a**. 'Nuff said.

3) Credibility is not in question, this thread is for opinions! This is a political DISCUSSION. I'm asking everyone's thoughts on the plan, which is factual (I got it straight from CNN). All opinions are welcome but if all you can say is: "Hurr your avatar looks stupid so your stupid :B " Then kindly GTFO and grow some maturity.

Matasoga

Yes, I'd say that your political credibility is indicated by your rainbow pigtails, "glomp me" sign, and admission that all of your political knowledge began and ended with Schoolhouse Rock. I can't discredit you any more than you already have.
And that's what I think.

 

[xena91388]

I understand getting rid of the Debt would be bad since it is used to regulate taxes and thus help the economy along but it has gotten out of control (it's currently around 13 Trillion).

My grievance is Obama's plan for it! Pushing retirement to 68!? That's a long time to wait for some people who can't afford to retire early and are forced to do so because of health problems. Military spending!? Ok I can see that one, but the military is pretty efficient at times, it's the administrative government offices and facilities that waste money like an open wound ( I've seen it first hand) but they don't want to admit it. The Taxes!? That is gonna hurt a lot of middle/ working class Americans, especially ones with mortgages living from paycheck to paycheck. Begging money from China!? *facepalm*

FireSpark

Now, now, now. No need for the personal attacks. Instead of defaming, how about educating.

Such as how despite the fact that everyone seems to think that the best thing in the world would be for the USA to be rid of its budget defecit, this couldn't be further from the truth. As bizarre as it may seem, even to me, defecit is what drives the baseline of our economy. In its simplest form, our national debt allows over governments to make deals with us, which in turn places their economy in a strong position so that they can deal with other nations, and so on. Thus when the sub-prime market crashed and burned before anybody realized what was going on, and the entire US economy went into a recession (which G.W. Bush still probably thinks is just exaggeration), economy's all across the world went into nose dives. On the small scale: we owe people money, so therefore they buy into our economy. When we do good, they do good, and then buy into our economy even more.

If we had no debt,there would be no imbalance to the system, and it would be likely to stagnate. Since the first use of a monetary system, the whole shebang has always depended on someone owing somebody.

As to the jobs thing, that's a little more of a yes and no answer. The bare bonesofit is: Yes, we could pull those jobs back to the States, where it would then cost businesses more to produce the same quantity of items, and thereby drive prices up, and thereby reducing the amount of money they could make, at which point they make less of the items. Since they make less of the items, they don't need as many workers, and so people get laid off. And now you're back where you started.

What has o happen to make more jobs, is for industry innovations. More jobs will come along when new technologies create new industries. Right now, we are in transitino. We just have to hang in there until the private sector manages to pull itself around.

And as to embargoes, you might want to google a little harder next time. There are currently only two Asian countries with embargoes, North Korea (by the US and the UN), and China (by the EU). And those are both just partial embargoes dealing mainly with armaments and weapon technologies. Everybody wants products from the USA. We make some hot schtuff here. It just doesn't seem that way because most my generation, andt he one following me up had become so accustomed to a high level of goods accessibility, that this new market of scarcity and low production is something we see as "not normal".

Well trust me, it wasn't always this good past. But just like all the times before, things will improve again. They always do.

 

[Matasoga]

xena91388

Begging money from China!? *facepalm*

Yes, because begging is what we're doing. That's right. We're asking very pitifully and China, with some of the biggest human rights issues in history is doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. They don't expect any of it back and it was no sort of business arrangement. It was begging.
Wacky stuff, huh?  

[ThisEmptySoul]

FireSpark

Now, now, now. No need for the personal attacks. Instead of defaming, how about educating.

Words to live by.

Although, I think your understanding of economics is flawed. Other countries don't invest in our economy -because- it's doing badly. They do it because they are hoping that it will recover and they'll see a good return on their investment. They've already got so much invested in our economy that they don't want to see it go down, but at the same time if all they see is that it's continuing to do poorly and get worse, they will eventually stop investing because it is no longer worth the effort since all they would be doing is losing money and getting little to nothing in return. Think of it like a business: no one wants to throw their money at a business they know is going down the tubes because it's a waste.

Governments don't depend on debt to make deals. Sure they can make deals from it, but more importantly is for one nation to have something the other one wants. This is different from actually owing them, and it's what really enables trade. When you buy groceries from the store, it isn't because that store owes you food; it's because you want/need that food. {Some food is definitely just a want rofl } If there was no debt, we could still trade and make deals because, as you stated, the US does have things that other countries want and other countries still have things that the US wants.

On to jobs, when you look at why all the jobs are being outsourced, you'll start getting to a real solution. It's cheaper for companies to outsource jobs because workers from other countries are willing to take lower wages. On top of that, even if someone here in the US actually didn't mind working for a lower wage just so long as they could work, they aren't allowed to work for a lower wage due to government regulations and mandates. It's believed that paying someone less than minimum wage and hiring those in desperate situations is exploitation and people should not be allowed to be exploited in this country, so instead of giving people jobs here so they can eat, they ship the jobs elsewhere and the people here who need the jobs are left to starve. Some may say it is greedy for a business to do that, but in order to keep a competitive price of their products {in other words, make it cost less for the consumer}, they need to be able to save money wherever possible. Wages can become a rather pricey business expense, and cutting costs elsewhere means a worse product and a bad product doesn't sell well.

Additionally, it is difficult to start a business. New businesses in the private sector create new jobs and generate more income. Requiring excessive permits, licenses, and unreasonably high standards of training, education, and experience just to start a business thwarts the amount of businesses that can be created because then it costs too much to get started. Add in taxes, that means people have less money to spend on either starting a business or keeping a business running.

One of the first and most important steps to take when it comes to debt is to cut spending. All other efforts will mean nothing if you are continuing to spend the same amount or more. In the case of government, their biggest spending comes from the military, so it makes perfect sense to cut military spending. Aside from funding two wars, there are also military bases all around the world in countries that pose no imminent threat {such as Germany and Japan}. Politicians and government workers also need to stop giving themselves such hefty raises as that does not generate real income. That's all money gotten through taxation; in other words, taking from your pocket to put into their own. This is also the reason why it is not the role of government to create jobs and why government jobs do not help the economy.  

[FireSpark]

xena91388

I understand getting rid of the Debt would be bad since it is used to regulate taxes and thus help the economy along but it has gotten out of control (it's currently around 13 Trillion).

My grievance is Obama's plan for it! Pushing retirement to 68!? That's a long time to wait for some people who can't afford to retire early and are forced to do so because of health problems. Military spending!? Ok I can see that one, but the military is pretty efficient at times, it's the administrative government offices and facilities that waste money like an open wound ( I've seen it first hand) but they don't want to admit it. The Taxes!? That is gonna hurt a lot of middle/ working class Americans, especially ones with mortgages living from paycheck to paycheck. Begging money from China!? *facepalm*

I agree that it has gotten rather large and ridiculous. But on the four points you seem to be focusing on:

1) Reducing tax returns may suck in the short run (and by short I mean up to a decade), but reducing some of the big payouts would help to weedle down some of the defecit. Heck, if they instead shunted that back into the SSA, they might not have to push back the retirement age, but...

2) The concept of a retirement age is a joke, and anyone of the age of 25 should've managed to figure that out by now. People have been having to work regular jobs well past the "retiring age" for the last twenty years because that's how long SSA has been tightening the ol' belt.

3) Direct military spending will no doubt decrease once we have been extricated from the morass that Iraq has become.
Stupid GW >grumble*mumble<

4) As to China, I can assure you that there is no begging in sight. What is happening right now is that our government is doing its best to re-establish an economic ally of sorts. The last time we we're on anything cose to a friendly term with China was just before WWII. As China has begun to finally hit the economic advancement that the US and Europe hit thirty years ago, the tmie has come to play ball with them again. Giving and taking is the name of the game, especially with a country that has been ostracized for so long.