[S] Events for people that dont win events?

[Ktns]

Manda

And yea, it's true that there are other ways to win in events aside from the RNG, but it's also true that not everyone is a stellar RP'er/artist or whatever. It's almost even more often that the same people are going to win RP/art/creativity based contests, because they are good at that sort of thing. Which is not a bad thing, but the facts are there XD

I couldnt agree with this more. However, I have seen some judges that are nice enough to judge the concept and potential rather than someones SKILLZ, but it still happens and its not uncommon.  

[Ktns]

I wasnt arguing a point, I was just stating the RNG thing because its come up a couple of times. Just a clarification is all.  

[Manda]

*nod* I wasn't trying to argue either, just making a point as well ~

I think it's awesome how talented some people are, but even in judging some things in my own shop, I've sometimes gone with the person who had, say, an interesting idea, even if it wasn't well-executed. Or someone that I think has a lot of potential but isn't necessarily really good right at that moment. I also tend to try and spread prizes around in events, where I can. Especially on judged things that aren't RNG'd ... but then again, my shop has a muuuuuuch smaller population lol

But that's sort of OT since this is talking more about luck-based things XDDD *shuts up naow*  

[Ktns]

Good lord... I just made a post too about this not turning into a debate and yet I posted a clarification from my original post that referred to a number of posts and Manda posted simply because she hasnt had the chance to yet.

This is a suggestion thread. NOT a debate, not a beat your point to death. Its why Ive stopped posting myself other than remind people what this thread is not for, and clarifying about RNG, and Manda just brought up a different aspect of how judging sometimes goes.

People shouldnt be feeling like they should 'have to shut up now' or feeling like 'here it goes again'.

Im going to post this again as it was clearly missed the first time I posted. Or maybe it was just the last paragraph that was missed.

People shouldnt feel like they have to defend their post every time they post.
_____

I notice this still seems to be a hot topic, but I also notice people reiterating their point over and over every time a new person posts either for or against their idea. So far we have had a couple good ideas come from this and good points from both sides.

If you've posted, thank you for your feedback, but please refrain from posting further for either side, since this is a suggestion/feedback thread, not a debate thread, and other people should be allowed to post their opinions and feelings on the matter, if they have something new to bring up, without having old info constantly rehashed.

Your point has been made, and we should let others state their say rather then repeating it. If you can't think of something new, please move onto a different subject you think could use your insight. Repeating yourself whenever confronted with someone else voicing their opinion doesn't mean that you're words are any greater: Everyone requires a chance to have a say without confrontation. If you've stated your piece, for or against it, please step aside and allow others to give themselves a voice instead of beating your point over and over.

Thank you c:
 

[Felmino]

Debate isn't bad, guys. biggrin

Really that's what I was hoping to see in Suggestion threads. A meeting of the minds, proposing of various ideas and why they would or would not work. So long as you are attacking the problem and not the people, go for it!

Active debate is healthy and it's something we desperately need. For too long anything but the most trivial of topics have been shunned because of fear of the Drama Police.

Everything here does not have to be sunshine and rainbows. That said, Kita is absolutely right that you should bring up new ideas, or new combinations, rather than the same old thing over and over. wink

I've read through the thread and it seems to me that a lot of the frustration I'm hearing stems simply from a lack of availablity - we have but four active Senior Colorists at this moment, and it shows. With new staff coming up the ranks things should get better in the coming months. I know that's cold comfort right now, but have a bit of faith - we'll get this rodeo turned around yet!  

[~Masamune~]

My suggestion would be a more simplified version that is more easy to regulate. Basically, if you won a specific event in the last event, you can't win in that same event in the next event.

For example. Lets say that you won in the flaffle in the Blood Moon Carnival Event. That would mean that you are unable to enter the flaffle in the next shop event. (For the example's sake, lets say the Christmas Event).

So, you would be allowed to enter all other aspects of the Christmas Event (the auction, the games, etc), just not the flaffle.

All that colourists would need to do to track this is have a thread that lists everyone who won stuff and how they won them in the current event. Then when the next event is posted, so people would be unable to enter whatever part of the event they won in.  

[Ktns]

I cant seem to sleep cause of this damn ear infection, so I started to run things through my head a bit. I know what Ive said about reiterating, but I feel this is more clarifying than anything. Maybe give a little insight as to why I made this post, because its not all just about 'bawwwww' bad luck.

I've been apart of Soq now for about two years. In the beginning, the shop was pretty bad about anything newbie related, or even really being friendly in general. I came into the thread, I even posted in the newbie area but almost always got ignored. Soq wasnt as newbie friendly back then as they are now. I tried my hand at events, as little as they were, and always came up empty handed.

Now, Im your pretty average every day Gaian. Im not awesome at art, I dont have a good gig at some elite shop. I dont have the expendable income to dump RL money into this site in any means whether its Gaia itself or RL bribes. Im not rich. I dont have 'buddies' on staff. I worked off what I could and saved and saved until I could finally FINALLY afford my first Soq, which was a bribe, for 10mil.

Yes, I have a nice little herd, and all but 1 in my herd I have paid for. Totaling up to 26.66 mil. Thats not including all the other money Ive dumped into raffles and events the past two years.

Now some of you Im sure by now are also crying 'selfish' as well. Welp, Ive also given away two full Soq to newbies that owned 0, as well as paid for three newbies to get their first customs. Only one of these people did I even remotely know, so it wasnt as if I was 'gifting' friends.

If you know me, you know I dont have but maybe 5 other pets in B/C. I spend most/all my time and money here at Soq. I dont collect other pets, I dont collect avatar items. Every once in a while Ill use birthday money or something, but its so few and far between that I treat myself in such a way.

So yes, when I see people wandering around with herds of Soq and have maybe paid for one or two of them, winning the rest in events, its a little disheartening. Recently, I asked a friend with a herd of about the same size as mine, what she paid for her herd if she had to guess. The answer? About 1.5mil. Everything else was won. She also has been in the shop about a year less than I have as well.

Now, I understand that my situation, along with the one I quoted from a friend, might fall as extreme because not everyone has the same story, but I think something should be said for shop loyalty and shop interaction. And you know what, not a lot of people even fall into this category, so you arent looking at a list of even probably close to 50. More likely your looking at a small list, just like any other LL event.

Am I demanding free pets? No. Am I even demanding special events just for me? No. Ideally when I posted the thread, I was thinking, yanno, something would be nice to maybe have, at the end of the year, for people that havent had luck for the entire year. People that have been active religiously, people that have given to others, people that have paid for 95% of what they have.

Would it be a lot of checking on links provided? Probably. But its no different than checking all the other LL links. Hell, you could even just have people link to one event per month, since there is usually at least one event a month, and that would even total to just 12 links, less than the 20 required for LL breedings.

Is this a perfect solution? Probably not. I didnt claim that it was. Hell, it likely wont even work. It was merely a suggestion, because there *are* some of us out there that jump through all the hoops all the time, and would like to win something random. Just like people treasure their first basket, or their first gifting, even their first event won. And judging by the poll, there are a decent number of people that feel similar to the same way.

If you took the time to read this, thank you. I hope it explained a little more than my original post. I dont pretend to know a perfect answer, all I know is that it would be nice. I know there are reasons against this as well, and I respect those people and their opinions. Responses are welcome, tho please be nice. I *get* that some people dont think it will work. Again, this is just an elaboration on my original post.

ALSO, I completely support/like the idea of people having 'cool downs' from winning events, if ultimately that is what comes from all of this. c:  

[Faid Shadowlight]

I think auctions should be part of the cool downs. I know they are rare but there are some people around that have huge sums of gold and items they can and will give away for pets in auction. And many others that are not as lucky, I know personally that I am loath to part with my items because I have had to save hard to get some of them.

I know this all comes down to a matter of wealth, and I'm all for colourists getting well paid for hard work. But when you only have the extremely rich able to get these much sought after pets it gets very disheartening. I know that is the whole point of an auction but I think that a cool down will allow these often mutant pets to be spread around a little more.

There will always be someone richer than you, its a fact of life. I know the word fair has been thrown around a lot, and really there is no fairness in much of anything, at least not in the way where everyone wins, sadly this is not Eutopia. However I believe there is always a compromise so that things can be spread around more.

The honour system could work, but there is a big issue of catching people IF they are cheating. The only way I can see that being possible is having a list of winners and then marking down each time they win something. But that would require someone to take the time to do that and most probably would be easiest in a spreadsheet program.

I'm just punting thoughts and ideas around here I really don't have a clue how to make it work but I'm a firm believer that there is a compromise.
 

[Selalusia]

I don't know about having a different cooldown for auctions. The only reason being because they are meant to be whoever can pay the most. And you never know what the next auction will be so you can't choose which auction you want to get. anyways!!

But I do agree that mutants should be spread around more :U This is my personal opinion though, simply because I too want a mutant soq xD

Even if it was a template mutant (like those oh-so-awesome talons *v* )
We want mutants to be rare, definitely. But it'd be nice to have more ways to get them than just auctions.

I haven't been around for very many events.. so I don't actually know how many mutants have been given out in games, contests, ect. 8D so..anyways

 

[Manda]

Okay so Nyx and I were talking about this a bit on AIM the other night and we kinda came up with a good point on the cooldown thing.

Say there is a rule in place that says 'if you win in this flaffle/auction/event, then you can't win in the next flaffle/auction/event'. But then. What if whatever is in the next one of those that comes up ... you really really like? Or potentially like better than something that was in the last thing? Is it really fair to ... essentially 'penalize' a person for winning the last time around by not letting them try to win again when something new comes up?

Now, within one big event, it's totally fair to say something like 'only one from auction, one from flaffle, one from this other thing' or 'only 3 prizes from the whole event' or something, because usually you can see all or most of the pool of prizes to choose from! So you can go 'well I don't really like that one, I like something from this part of the event instead'. So it's an .... informed choice of what you're giving up to win the pet(s) you really want.

With cooldowns in place for things that haven't even come up/happened yet, that choice gets taken away.  

[Sirenz]

Think of this forum as a little bit like the General Discussion forum but soquili related. I want to see people debate issues here instead of doing it in the main shop thread. Sometimes the suggestions turn into a debate so don't be upset if some people don't agree with your idea. Seeing the different viewpoints on a subject gives us more information whether or not it could be fit for the shop.  

[LOLLI qAq]

I don't want to push my point into the ground, but I feel like some of what I have posted has been ignored. I'm fine with not getting direct quotes or "@lolli-"s but because it doesn't look like anything I've said has been looked at I am going to make a quick list. A tl;dr if you will:

- I don't think "cool downs" for auctions is practical. Since they are so very few and far between.

- HOWEVER specialty auctions might help some? Just as the PW WoW auctions didn't allow anyone that already owned a PW to bid, maybe there could be some more like that? It limits who can enter and gives others a chance at an auction pet they wouldn't otherwise.

- Cool downs for other things like games, shop run RP contests, and free raffles is a GREAT idea.
- I bring up only shop run RP contests because as someone that has participated in and run RP contests for a basket or co-ownership there is not usually nearly as much interest there as for other things. Which results in a lower chance of finding the concept or skills that I'm looking for to be part of my family.

It's not much - But there it is.  

[Ktns]

Those are some good ideas. Ill update the front post sometime tonight or tomorrow to update what is going on and where the main ideas are.  

[Ktns]

Sirenz

Think of this forum as a little bit like the General Discussion forum but soquili related. I want to see people debate issues here instead of doing it in the main shop thread. Sometimes the suggestions turn into a debate so don't be upset if some people don't agree with your idea. Seeing the different viewpoints on a subject gives us more information whether or not it could be fit for the shop.

Im thinking debate is the wrong word. Really its just the people that keep posting the same thing over and over every time someone new posts. The whole thing Fel posted earlier about people presenting something new instead of being stuck on the same thing actually was what I was trying to get to because a couple of people kept reiterating their point until it was dead. My apologies for the wrong word.  

[Faid Shadowlight]

Manda

Okay so Nyx and I were talking about this a bit on AIM the other night and we kinda came up with a good point on the cooldown thing.

Say there is a rule in place that says 'if you win in this flaffle/auction/event, then you can't win in the next flaffle/auction/event'. But then. What if whatever is in the next one of those that comes up ... you really really like? Or potentially like better than something that was in the last thing? Is it really fair to ... essentially 'penalize' a person for winning the last time around by not letting them try to win again when something new comes up?

Now, within one big event, it's totally fair to say something like 'only one from auction, one from flaffle, one from this other thing' or 'only 3 prizes from the whole event' or something, because usually you can see all or most of the pool of prizes to choose from! So you can go 'well I don't really like that one, I like something from this part of the event instead'. So it's an .... informed choice of what you're giving up to win the pet(s) you really want.

With cooldowns in place for things that haven't even come up/happened yet, that choice gets taken away.

This is very true.. but then it comes back to something Kita and some others have said that why enter if you don't really want that pet? I know there is always the case of something better coming along, but that's the thing with hindsight. There will always be those thoughts of... oh I won daisy in the panto raffle so now I cant enter the super whatever raffle and I want them all so much more!!!

You will get the same happening whatever the event type is. I can't think of a good way to stop it either. All future events and raffles etc are a mystery, its the same risk no matter what the cooldown is on. However even having a cooldown you will not stop people entering just on the off chance of winning something. Well I can think of a couple of ideas but they wont be popular so I wont post them here.

Basically it comes down to what is fair again and there is no way to get that, not for everyone.