[S] Multiple Angeni for one domain.

[Epine de Rose]

Given that I've actually been brought up in an example by Sya - I'll just clarify how Sya and I worked through the 'conflict' between the two domains whenever she customed in the domain of "future".

Cyn Generis is the Angeni of Time, ancient, fluffy, cobwebby beastie that he is. He in essence and by the lore I created for him guards the 'flow' of time. He's more like a watchdog for it, he has cursed eyes that he chooses to cover up (hence his hair) but in a manner of speaking his powers do not dominate Sya's Angeni.

Cyn Generis = Generalised.
Cyn has the ability to see only the 'current' option when it comes to a soquili's fate and even then it's not a guaranteed and accurate reading. Soquili change their minds, change their direction in life and may choose to take a different path. If he read them (owner's permission required for this) before they made these changes then his reading will be WRONG. He in essence, is there to act as a 'warning', he'll hint that in their future they may enter into a conflict, find love etc etc based on what the owner has asked of me.

MOST typically borrow his 'skill' and cursed sight for their soquili plots, if they want their soquili to change/adapt or work towards a big quest they often like to have him 'see' them so that they get a warning. Then when they reach that crossroads they can pick from there. Outside of that he does NOTHING - his main duty is to oversee the flow of time and he is not to react in any manner with a soquili to stop this aka he can't stop time/change someone's future/change someone's past.

Now Sya's Angeni (and ty for her asking permission in the first place) is the Angeni of Future. She has the ability of Foresight and could probably give a much more accurate reading than he ever could. She doesn't even have the same skills as him. Yes, their domains are linked and appear to go hand in hand but they deviate as well. Sya's Angeni has a domain in relation to his but it's more "specific", both are arguably neutral in a manner of speaking but neither can control the other.

I do not agree with allowing more than one angeni of the same domain, it makes no sense. However, operating on a SoA-esque one whereby there are similar themes is perfectly acceptable. Angeni of Present/Past is something I wouldn't have an issue with in the slightest, although a slight nod in my direction to let me know they're there is nice (seriously I don't bite).

While a lot of owners would like to see changes so that they get what they've wanted for years, they also need to realise that the people who quested for their Angeni did work hard for them. It's rude and inappropriate to expect them to let people complain that they didn't get there in time, then be bullied by the majority into letting clone domains pop up everywhere.

I will admit that some people aren't nice or receptive to the idea of another domain cropping up that would be similar to their own, but these original owners should be allowed to decide whether or not they're comfortable with it. I'm fairly certain none of you would appreciate being bullied into something and I doubt an Angeni owner appreciates it in the slightest either.

If you want this idea, then something similar to SoA does have to implemented and you WILL have to appreciate that it's polite to ask permission. You may find some say 'no', but the vast majority will most likely say 'yes' and will be perfectly reasonable. I didn't chew Sya's head off when she got the Angeni of Future, I just got her to clarify what she did! I'd be the same with anyone else who got an Angeni with a similar domain to Cyn's.

However, if someone wanted another Angeni of Time I would get cranky, because I worked hard for him and I've worked really hard on his history, lore and personality too. To have someone walk in with an angeni of the exact same domain and turn it upside down would be a bit of a kick to the teeth for me and I'd probably get cranky.

Apologies for the ramble - all I'm trying to say is that soquili owners are making a lot of demands because "I didn't get it on time", you have to accept that it's luck based some of the time. You can't expect EVERYTHING to be catered to you and shifted around when it could blatantly disrespect the owners of the original creation. While I'm sure staff would like to find a solution for everyone, you guys can't revert to whining/bullying tactics and shouldn't make original owners feel bad.

If this is to be implemented (and I'd be happy enough with a SoA-esque method) then you have to RESPECT that some Angeni owners might say no and others might say yes. You shouldn't b***h, whine or moan about them as they are entitled to the decision... But you should give them the benefit of the doubt. Don't regard us all with cynisim, most of us are very willing to discuss it and work so that it doesn't conflict with thee existing domains.

As for the concerns to one 'broad' domain lording over a 'lesser' domain, I can see where this would be a worry but it should be looked at on a case by case basis. As I said before, my Angeni and Sya's Angeni operate through different means even though their domains are connected in a manner of speaking - there's a good chance the other 'broad' domains may be the same.

If staff find that the owner of the soquili with the broad domain is taking too many liberties then it's their call, in those cases they should discuss it with the owner. Generally speaking, you will probably find that the owners of those particular angeni have a very specific view on what their domain represents and in the end... you may find that your SPECIFIC domain is exactly what you need.

Just food for thought.  

[samus x]

your really never going to run out of domains for angeni. look at the SoA shop that has TONS of SoA gods who have domains and soquili isn't even close to how many they have.

i honestly don't think i want someone else having agony or despair when i took quite a while figuring out their domains and looks and on their history/personality.

SoA has changed how you get your god domain approved. you have to now go the to shop staff not the owners of gods because people leave the shop or disappear or they just don't play nice. they have a thread set up with a god mule, a list of gods taken(that is up to date), also they list who is questing for what. also multiple people can be approved for the same domain. but its still a first come first served in who ever actually get it in the end when they try against one another for a slot for that god.

i think if soquili wants to keep domains only one angeni having that one domain. they should get a system like SoA has for their gods because in a sense Angeni's here are like the SoA Gods.  

[samus x]

@LydaLynn i don't see why a shop should beable to strip your angeni of its domain if your not active neutral even SoA doesn't do that and i can tell you ALOT of their god owners aren't active which is one of the reasons they changed their god system.

yeah its sucky if someone takes up a domain and whatever reason disappears for however long but i don't think the shop should penalize them for it.  

[Epine de Rose]

Unfortunately, Lyda that 'call' wouldn't work for existing Angeni. Breedables rules state that you can't enforce rules retroactively in any respect, so the domains that already exist are PROTECTED by this rule. You can't call for those MIA owners to state their interest and then remove the domains if they're not as it's breaking breedables rules as a whole.

However, going forward you could enforce this rule with any new Angeni created after I dunno... Dec '10 - start it in Jan '11 as a new start to the year. I wouldn't force an RP requirement on anyone as the shop isn't RP based and has always been optional. BUT, requesting that they show their faces now and again wouldn't hurt - that being said, some owners might not be receptive to this as some do like Angeni as sig pets with a nice little domain under them and if some are in the armed forces then there's no way they could protect their domains if they're oversees and have no internet access.

You have to weigh up the pros and cons. While I'd back the idea of Angeni domains being monitored a little, you also have to consider the lives people live outside of the forums and the fact that they may have things that keep them away for long periods of time e.g. Job, kids, family emergencies etc  

[Epine de Rose]

You could certainly opt for a 'voluntary' thread. Whereby those who aren't active etc have the choice to give their permission for an Angeni of the same domain to be customed. It's a bit of a stab in the dark, but if the agreement was there from inactive owners or those who only wanted it for sig purposes rather than RP then it still gives others a chance.

I'm not sure if that's "false hope" so to speak as the cosplay permission thread was poorly used, but it is one way to try and recover some of the inactive domains. Not a guarantee, but it would be something rather than nothing...  

[LOLLI qAq]

Those are a lot of very good points, but I still have questions about your arguments.

What doesn't make sense about two Angeni having the same domain?

And with that - I don't see where it's rude or unfair to want a different soquili with different directions, plans, and goals to have the same basic Domain with a different take on it.

Epee - If I came to you and said that I would like an Angeni of Time, one that couldn't see it but felt it, one that couldn't even control when they did so and so decided to instead ACT and change things to how they saw fit as opposed to being a "watchdog" as you put it. An Anti-Cyn as it were- With different looks, thoughts, goals, and plans? Are you saying that it would be that big of a faux pas?
Would it be such a problem for an Angeni to exist affected differently by the same Domain as Cyn?

Same goes for you, I guess, Sam.

I'm just genuinely confused.
I have already stated that I can see where these points come from and maybe the problem isn't with the owners of the angeni so much as when the staff do the "No, you can't have it because it's too similar to so-and-so and their angeni" but there is a diminishing list of what is acceptable as Domains in this shop.

Maybe it's bias, and if you want to call it jealousy you can, but I've noticed that it is very easy for people that currently own Angeni to say that there are tons of Domains left to choose from and that it's not only rude to ask for this but also unnecessary. However, I encourage one of you to look at this from the stand-point of owners that are still trying to lay claim to a domain suitable for their angeni concept.
If you were still questing for your currently owned angeni with background history, plans, and personalities already cemented in- Could you find a Domain for them that isn't what you planned on(or rather what their Domain ended up being)?

I realize that we all need to be more flexible when it comes to questing, but sometimes- often enough to be an issue, people simply can't do that. Whether it's because they're trying to carry over their SoA God into the soquili world, or because it's a long standing character from stories or D&D games. It makes it very difficult to find anything else acceptable for that character you love so much.

I don't think that, with the addition of moderation over Domain sharing, this is really such a big problem for existing Angeni owners.  

[Epine de Rose]

That may key in to the idea of 'time' then, yes...but I still wouldn't be open to the idea of one sharing my domain. If he wanted to be the anti-cyn then he would actually represent "disruption" rather than time itself and could in affect go for that domain, or if you wanted to be even MORE specific "Disruption of time".

However, in a manner of speaking that would make the Angeni antagonistic and against the balance of nature so you would have to question it's alignment? If it wanted to tamper with and disrupt something, would that make it evil? There are a lot of questions rising from this and frankly, it's too much work to deal with it.

As Lyda said, I bought my angeni with the understanding that domains were owned by one soquili only. If I were to be subject to an Angeni of the same domain, ESPECIALLY one who deliberately dragged that domain in the opposite direction then it would be a huge headache. I'd feel incredibly insulted too, because the two years of work I've done on mine is destroyed by one that was bought recently, how could that possibly be fair? In essence, it would be godmoding.

I can appreciate that you have a history/personality/idea all set out for your Angeni but you HAVE to be flexible to an extent and as I said before you can make a specific domain that usually fits in better with your soquili custom anyway.

Samus raised a valid point that EVEN if a god concept is agreed to in questor forums, it is STILL first come first served. Multiple people could quest for the same god and the one who got it first would be successful while the others would have to rethink their concept.

Unfortunately if there is "no other option" for your character then it may be better to cast the idea to the side. Just because you don't get what you want because someone beat you to it, doesn't mean they can be made to feel guilty about their success. It's open competition, the cosplays work in the same way on a first come first serve basis and for good reason.

...If we started letting people "claim" domains while questing it would be unbelievably messy. And if the older Angeni owners were forced to accept 'clones' of their domains despite the 'contract' they were bought under it would be highly unethical. That would be like telling Naita that her Lucifer stallion was no longer allowed to be the only soquili with six wings, despite that being stipulated in the auction.

And there are a ton of domains, I have another angeni concept sitting on the backburner and when her concept was taken I had to rejig and reconsider which domain she was most suited for. If someone else picks up the domain I've selected for her this time then I'll have to go back to the drawing board. Unfortunately, things just work out that way sometimes and if you're creative enough you can adapt - if not, there's little else you can do.  

[samus x]

i actually never had any issue with not being able to get a domain i really want and i will give you an example of when i lost a domain i really wanted.

in SoA i was going to get a SoA god of despair in there but was unable to because that domain got taken up before i got to try for him. so really i know how not getting a domain you want can be sucky but the person who got the domain first should have the right to keep it for themselves when they also took alot of time and effort to get it.

i honestly see too much head butting if you go and allow a domain go to multi people. and really there is TONS of domains and sub domains that are simular to the more broader domains like Love has sub domains , Seduction Lust, ect or even Wrath has Hate, Anger, Agony, ect. there are many ways to get a domain close to what you originally wanted even if you cant get the first domain you want. you just have to be creative and find a way to work with a new domain if you don't get the one you want.  

[Revolutionary Roniel]

Lolli McHotpants

I realize that we all need to be more flexible when it comes to questing, but sometimes- often enough to be an issue, people simply can't do that. Whether it's because they're trying to carry over their SoA God into the soquili world, or because it's a long standing character from stories or D&D games. It makes it very difficult to find anything else acceptable for that character you love so much.

I don't think that, with the addition of moderation over Domain sharing, this is really such a big problem for existing Angeni owners.

Just something I noticed... people can't possibly carry their SoA God or long standing character in as an angeni with a domain currently. As the rules stand, characters that are OCs or that are based off of pets from other shops aren't allowed to have domains as an angeni. I've got a suggestion thread trying to get that changed... but as current rules stand, this wouldn't be an issue.  

[Dragain]

I pointed out that a staff could be the one to approve or disapprove Domains rather than the owner, since people could be mean or they could vanish from Gaia. Honestly, I don't see why an "Umbrella" Domain would be unfair - taking Epine and Sya's examples, "Angeni of Time" seems to have a 'weaker future sight' than "Angeni of the Future" because "Angeni of Time" is the "Umbrella" or "Main" Domain of "Angeni of the Future".

The powers/history of your Soquili would not change.

Lets say I own "Angeni of Eagles" at the moment, and one day, an "Angeni of Birds of Prey" is made. My Angeni would still be able to lord/guard over the Eagles since an "Angeni of Birds of Prey" is an Umbrella Domain and would not be as influence as my "Angeni of Eagles". Indeed, I imagine a meeting between those two would be fun. xD  

[StarieMichie]

In D&D, Gods share domains and get along just fine. You don't see Wee Jas and Veccna fighting because they both have the domain of "Magic". Why can't godly horses share too?