[S] Ability to know genders of baskets

[ButtPuppetry]

It was pointed out that knowing the gender of the foals would be useful in choosing which basket you wanted. There will be instances where people will breed two species of Soq and will hope for a specific outcome.

So I feel that if you can know the gender of the basket in order to help you choose, that eventually it will be taken another step and you will be able to know the race of the foal to help you choose.

Edit:
Basically, what I'm saying is that when you're able to find out one thing, eventually it'll be argued that you should be able to find out everything about the baskets.

To some people, gender is less important than species. Ex: Someone who breeds a regular horse with an Angeni is gonna hope for the Angeni offspring in most cases. If you can know the gender of the offspring, what's stopping you from knowing the species as well?  

[Parue]

I personally would love to know the gender of the baskets when they drop. Sometimes plot wise, I would love to know if there was say, a filly availible. For all I know only colts may be born, and that's juuust fine. But its nice to know. I don't think the race or edits thing should come into play, I mean, they really have nothing to do with gender.


@Lady- Hun I think there was just confusion, because you seem to be thinking that they are asking to be able to see genders as in the way a bribe breeding can, wich is not the case. Only haveing the option to see wich genders were randomly generated is being requested. 8D

ALSO~ I tottaly agree that unless, both owners request it, and the colorist is willing to give the information -wich should be stated in the raffle or something?- that it should be ok? 8D

IMO~  

[Ktns]

Parue: I think that would be a great way to impliment it.  

[Dragain]

If you're still reading this thread, Eve, I would like to point out that Kita is suggesting knowing the gender of baskets when they are posted. Since that is predetermined by the colorist, it does not change anything - it is just the option to know which basket holds a boy and which holds a girl. :3 That's all.

For bribes, you're the one picking the genders, so the genders are normally posted when the baskets are dropped off because you were the one to pick the genders.

All that aside, I think it should be an option for owners. I like to be surprised, but I think some people might want certain gender foals due to plot... I can understand the fact that people might be pressurized into choosing X basket over Y basket by the other owner because the owner owner wants a certain gender, and that basket happens to be it...  

[Tamiko_kitten]

I think this is a good idea to have the option, obviously only in the case that both owners agree as well as the colourist. I understand there is the issue of being pressured for whatever gender, but at the same time the same argument could be made for favourite basket based on colour/design. Like if one owner pms saying "I love basket X, it's so pretty it's my favourite," Is that really that much different from saying "I really want a gender X basket." I know for me, up until a month ago I had no females in my herd and though I love my boys sometimes I really wanted a female to rp razz
And for certain couples, I would honestly have no preference of gender, and my basket choice would be determined by colour preference, however I know for one of my couples in particular I would really really love a girl from their next breeding. And it is a choice to know the gender, so if you don't want to know you don't have to.

edit: and in terms of this I wouldn't really consider bribes the same at all....just because they open extremely rarely and the majority of people don't have the funds required to bribe for a breeding. A 12k breeding fee is very different than a something-million bribe.  

[Dixie]

I agree with everyone that this could be a neat option.

It should be up to everyone involved, from the colorist to the owners of the baskets that have been dropped.

Just as everyone before me has said, some base their picks on color of the basket, some would like to be able to pick to gender to help in plot purposes. I personally have been in both situations.

I believe the majority of people would still choose based on looks, but for those that it would help, why not?

As far as 'forcing' the others to take a certain basket...Don't people do that already? It's not based on gender, but by coloration of the baskets. If two people really like the same basket, there's a bit of tension for the person who has the first pick. Either they take the basket they want, or they feel so guilty that the other own 'really wants x basket' that they go with their second choice and give it up. It's all up to the owners involved on whether they feel pressured to give it up based on coloration, gender, etc.

Now, that said. I do think it -could- possibly open a can of worms with others wanting to know the edits, breed, etc. I think that should be strictly prohibited, or else, what is the need for baskets at all?  

[Kamiki]

Etherial Requiem

I guess I dont see where gender and race have anything to do with each other. There are plenty of couples where race doesnt come into the picture, and thus is less likely to 'go down that road'.

Because any argument you can make for gender, you can apply to race as well.

"My herd is (male/unicorn) heavy, so I'd really like a (female/flutter)."

"The person who put the babies in the baskets would know the (gender/race) so ICly it would make sense that the Soq would know."

"I just prefer roleplaying (males/kalonas)... it's easier for me."

"I have a plot in mind I want to do, and it just would make so much more sense if I had a (stallion/kirin) to do it with."

See? It's not that they aren't valid arguments... but I'm afraid if staff start saying we can know the genders of the baskets ahead of time, people might take the same arguments and applying it other aspects is all.

Give some people an inch, they take a mile.  

[Iokabrenna]

I think they should come with the gender labled. Always have.

My reasoning is because when I see a basket and I go "OMG, thats my basket!" ...I get creative ideas in mind. Surprise is all fine and dandy, but what if youre someone who likes to plot / rp? Nothing sucks more than having brilliant ideas for a certain pairs daughter, then getting all sons. It doesnt make me appreciate the soquili any less, but it doesnt help me channel creative muses.

EDIT after reading Kamiki: I agree. But if soquili just goes, gender and nothing more. It DOESNT defeat the point of baskets. The race needs to remain a secret to keep people from fighting. I always go by the genaric rule of if i've been entering a pair on my own for forever in breedings, I did the work; i get first pick. If the workload has been split pretty fairly, we both pick, if theres one we both like; we roll for it. Its worked out great so far for me smile

My vote is in on this. 3nodding  

[Reiterei]

Kamiki

"The person who put the babies in the baskets would know the (gender/race) so ICly it would make sense that the Soq would know."

Actually, the person putting the Soqs in the baskets would not know the race:

Soquili

To compensate for these things, Soquili are born more premature than real horses. They are born completely helpless, and even their coat coloration hasn't developed yet at birth. It can even be difficult to determine if a soqulii will have wings, they are so underdeveloped at birth. All tails are bony and hairless. Horns or the like haven't yet grown in at all.

 

[Kamiki]

Reiterei

Kamiki

"The person who put the babies in the baskets would know the (gender/race) so ICly it would make sense that the Soq would know."

Actually, the person putting the Soqs in the baskets would not know the race:

Soquili

To compensate for these things, Soquili are born more premature than real horses. They are born completely helpless, and even their coat coloration hasn't developed yet at birth. It can even be difficult to determine if a soqulii will have wings, they are so underdeveloped at birth. All tails are bony and hairless. Horns or the like haven't yet grown in at all.

I know, which is also supposed to be the same IC reason you don't know the gender. Testicles wouldn't have dropped, none of the sexual organs would be THAT developed that unless you stopped to actually thoroughly CHECK, it would be hard to know at a cursory glance what gender they where.

But that is an argument someone brought up, I was just using it as an example.  

[ATh e a r t]

Kamiki

Reiterei

Kamiki

"The person who put the babies in the baskets would know the (gender/race) so ICly it would make sense that the Soq would know."

Actually, the person putting the Soqs in the baskets would not know the race:

Soquili

To compensate for these things, Soquili are born more premature than real horses. They are born completely helpless, and even their coat coloration hasn't developed yet at birth. It can even be difficult to determine if a soqulii will have wings, they are so underdeveloped at birth. All tails are bony and hairless. Horns or the like haven't yet grown in at all.

I know, which is also supposed to be the same IC reason you don't know the gender. Testicles wouldn't have dropped, none of the sexual organs would be THAT developed that unless you stopped to actually thoroughly CHECK, it would be hard to know at a cursory glance what gender they where.

But that is an argument someone brought up, I was just using it as an example.

Actually, I agree with Kamiki. If the baskets wouldn't have any traits of the actual species it will be, what makes people think that the gender will be shown as well?

I mean, I do understand that people want to be able to know there genders, but in the case of when the foals are in the baskets, I don't think there is supposed to be a way for you to tell which is male and which is female.

BUT. IF THIS WAS ALLOWED, no, I don't think it's up to the OWNERS to be able to spoil their surprise, but if the COLORISTS allow the owners to choose. THEY are the one coloring them and if they want the genders to remain a secret, I agree x:  

[Uta]

Call me old school, but I'd prefer if the genders were still kept a secret. Part of the biggest allure is the surprise factor. When I first joined the shop, I too was very uncomfortable writing males. I was lucky that my first soquili was female, the first basket I ever was gifted, also was female. If I had a choice, I would have continued to gun for females, because I just wasn't very comfortable with a male at the time.

But lo and behold, someone gifted me a basket and it turned out to be male. I was tickeled pink, don't get me wrong, but part of me went "O_O I fail at RPing males." But honestly, it was a good thing for me, because I had to be creative enough to find him a personality that fit, as well as a life all his own. Because I was forced out of my 'comfort zone' at the time, its allowed me to broaden my horizons.

Secondly, even if it was through the consent of the colourist AND both owners, what happens when one owner is found to be a stickler against known genders? I don't think I'd ever want to know the genders of any of my future breedings. Will this suddenly put a stigma on me because people will find out that if you breed your ponies with Uta, you're not going to know the genders because she'll likely say no . . .? I'd hope it wouldn't, but there are enough people in this shop that some might find it terribly important if this option were available.

Also, on the note of dramatics, I feel it might very well cause more drama or pressure. Right now, it can be crazy enough having to decide who gets what basket, especially if there are three or four (in the case of elders) to choose from. I know personally, for a long time Epee and I have mentioned a desire to have daughters from Azumoth and Bella. Their first three were sons (though one was a mock breeding customed in) and their next breeding held four baskets. As it turned out, only one of them was a female.

How much more pressure would there be if we knew which basket had been female? There was only one, both of us wanted a female and had plots for them accordingly. . . I just feel it might add complications. Especially if people are very vehement in their desires. They could make an already sometimes sensitive process even worse.

Why not just keep things simple? People mention 'well I have plots' . . . but if you're a writer one should be able to make the best of any situation or any gender. You might not get lucky and get the gender of your choice, but that's when you come up with an new plot or different idea. i mean, what happens if one person ONLY wants to RP females? Is it fair that every time they choose a basket, their first choice is always female? Or they throw a fit enough to convince their partner that they should have the female because such-and-such a reason?

Again, these are issues I would hope WOULDN'T happen, but are things I've seen in other shops too. I'm a colourist in a different shop, and sometimes when it comes to picking and choosing, people can get too obsessed or involved. . . ._.; So while perhaps the majority wouldn't act this way, there still might be one or two who do.

There are other ways to go about obtaining said gendered foal. I.e. winning a bribe breeding (though they are harder to obtain, it does happen), RL bribary (again, doesn't happen often but it has in the past and likely will in the future), or attempting to custom in a mock breeding. they may not bet the cheapest or easiest option, but at least they ARE options.

I'm just one person, I know, and I really can see why knowing the genders would be adventitious in some cases or with some people. . . but I also just can't help but think to be the most fair to everyone in the shop, to all owners alike, is to keep the playing field level and to keep it the way it has always been run.

Everyone knows how it works . . .Nobody but the colorist knows the gender, and thus the only real chaos that can come when picking a basket is colors alone. I just can't help but worry that the more you give, the more options people have, the more drama might seep from it. If things are fine the way they are now, why not keep what has worked and served soquili for so many years? If it's not broke, why fix it, ya know?

Anyway, this is just my opinion. I've read through and seen people post for and against. . . . again, I can see the flip-side as well, but I guess I just like it the way things are now.

Hope everyone is well!  

[Thalion]

Kamiki

Reiterei

Kamiki

"The person who put the babies in the baskets would know the (gender/race) so ICly it would make sense that the Soq would know."

Actually, the person putting the Soqs in the baskets would not know the race:

Soquili

To compensate for these things, Soquili are born more premature than real horses. They are born completely helpless, and even their coat coloration hasn't developed yet at birth. It can even be difficult to determine if a soqulii will have wings, they are so underdeveloped at birth. All tails are bony and hairless. Horns or the like haven't yet grown in at all.

I know, which is also supposed to be the same IC reason you don't know the gender. Testicles wouldn't have dropped, none of the sexual organs would be THAT developed that unless you stopped to actually thoroughly CHECK, it would be hard to know at a cursory glance what gender they where.

But that is an argument someone brought up, I was just using it as an example.

Just making a slight correction here. XD

Day 80:



The fetal head and neck will be untucked, and are being held level with the spine in the "normal" horse position. Its sex is now viable: you can see that little lumps have formed for the scrotum, if it's a male, or the udder, if its a female. The fetus is now about the size of a chipmunk.
_________________________________

So in short, gender can be determined pretty early on. XD; So ICily it would make sense (Unless they're....still fetus in the basket) to know the gender. The argument's a little silly if they're going to wait for certain parts to drop. ....otherwise we'd be waiting to know genders at the foal stage as well.


But in the end it's up to the colorists. I like the suggestion personally. If a colorist is willing to offer the option and the breeding owners are willing to pay, there's no harm. It doesn't need to erupt into a teeth-on-throat argument. XD It is a feedback and suggestion thread afterall.  

[Nyx Queen of Darkness]

I would rather the gender be shown on the basket cert, everyone's picked but you don't have to wait a week to know.

That's my thought. ^_^