[S] Ability to know genders of baskets

[Kamiki]

@Thalion: All I'm going to say to you is that these are not real horses. I'm saying the actual IC reason WHY the Soquili don't know the gender immediately upon birth is because its a bit ambiguous. It might be different in the real world, but ICly in the setting you would have to stop and thoroughly check before immediately knowing the gender, and in the hurry and hub-bub of getting the babies safe and secure in their basket, it would be easily overlooked.

At least that's the IC reason right now they don't know the genders.

It could be easily adjusted if the gender were able to be known.  

[mindsend]

In the end, this is to be something that would be up to the staffs meet's on (We meet about once a week, though because we get so much good feedback on things we cannot touch on it all usually). And then if we said ok to it, up to the individual colorist and both parents owners to find out.


There are some good reasons why, ICly, the parents would know the genders of their offspring in any breeding, much they would in ones purchased in bribes.

Not only is Thalion correct about their development being far enough along that a glance between the legs as they rid them of their umbilical cord and clean them would be able to tell, rather then a truly thorough check, but Horses have a better sense of smell then humans, and can tell gender by just the scent of it -- chances are the baskets smell of the individual soquili that are in them, since they spend so much time in them, that they'd be able to tell not only identity but gender as well from it.

On the other side, this is a breedable shop, not a ranch, and maybe you're soquili's parents have the sniffles.

From this point, though, it's pretty much in the hands of the staff whether or not to allow it. Some colorists in the past, such as Tooaya, coded their uncerts in such a way you could find out if they were male or female by just looking at the address, so its not as if its a new concept..

And even if we end up voting to allow it, it'd be a choice of the owners of the parents, AND the Colorist whether or not to do so. It's their surprise to ruin, and usually gender is the most minimal thing ever: Its not as if we'd ever say who is what species (The soquili wouldn't be able to tell) they are, how extensive their edits are etc. Some colorists, such as myself, dont even draw expression edits on foals unless its something beyond a frown or a smile or a lowered eyelid, but instead fangs or torn Glasgow like smile. However I, personally, wouldn't mind telling genders if it was allowed and requested.

I just wouldn't force it on anyone else.  

[Sabin Duvert]

Erm.... as it currently stands - based on what is written in the RP Guide and before that the Kinds & Breeds Info Thread (which I rewrote/updated and worked in the information about why soquili have baskets as a first stage and the intricacies of that with Sirenz's approval before it was transferred to the new RP guide) on a general basis the parents can't tell. That's why in most breedings the players and the soquili parents don't know the gender of the foals until they emerge.

I know that in nature foals have more sexual dimorphism, but these aren't real horses, and this is a fictionalized/fantasy like setting. And there are even some Real World mammals that are nearly impossible to tell gender even at full birth, especially rabbit and rodents. But that's besides the point.
Animals at that stage of development would also normally be able to tell if offspring had wings or mutations or other breed features, but for the sake of tying IC with OOC, they can't, and the underdeveloped soquili foals is the reasoning behind this.

The exception to this previously has been bribes - but that is an OOC designation where owners are not only allowed to know but to choose. But many still choose to RP the parents as not knowing what genders the foals are until they emerge from the baskets to follow along with the currently established setting.

Now, granted, this could change if decisions were made on the staff-side, as Mindsend mentioned. But as it currently stands, ICly, the foals are supposed to be underdeveloped in any kind of discriminating way.  

[Thalion]

Oh I was simply making a correction considering horse development. It's not exactly difficult to know that this is a fantasy setting (we have horses with trees growing out of their backs. Duh.) but the assumption was originally stated that we didn't know the gender because the horse wasn't developed at that stage because certain bits hadn't had a chance to drop. I was making a correction and pointing out that they do, in fact, develop pretty early on. Considering a lot of other aspects of soquili breeding are based on natural occurring events, I wanted to point out that it would be beyond reasonable for there to be an IC explanation as to why the caretakers would know the gender. There seemed to be a few comments saying they wouldn't and Kamiki seemed under the impression that there wasn't a way to tell. It wasn't an attack on anyone so sit down and take a deep breath. XD We're supposed to be accepting of everyone and their opinions right? Right.  

[Kamiki]

I was stating there wouldn't be a way to tell in Soquili mythos as it currently stands. That's all. You can point how with as many picture diagrams as you want how a horse's gender is determined from an early age: no one is arguing with you about that.

But ICly, the Soquili can't tell easily at birth. That's a fact, as the mythos currently stands.

This could be easily changed to be more realistic if the staff says so. But you're the one who was pointing out how I was 'wrong' when we're talking about two completely different things.  

[Thalion]

Pft calm down. XD You didn't exactly word your argument very well. There was no mention of soquili mythos or any of that. It wasn't an attack, I was making a correction. No need to get defensive.  

[Sabin Duvert]

This whole forum is for discussion. You can argue a point, and disagree and post your reasonings for them, but don't insult people and don't tell people that their argument was poorly worded. Telling people to calm down or that they're being defensive is argumentative in nature.  

[Thalion]

I suppose you can take it that way. :3 The defenses slammed up when I made a simple correction for sake of ic explanation possibilities in knowing the gender of the foal in the basket. I can't change how you interpret my online tone, but the both of you seem unnecessarily defensive over a simple correction. Mistakes happen, chill. XD

And not once have I insulted anyone. That's an unfair assumption. The original statement was worded in such a way that was open to confusion. I wanted to offer some facts so if any colorists choose to offer the choice of knowing, there was a good explanation as to how this was possible. ;3 So yes- calm down. I'm not being abrasive, I'm trying to help here. If someone takes it the wrong way, ball's in their court, not mine. XD  

[vballlvr5]

I have conflicting feelings about the topic. Yes, I really wanted a female soquili as I was very nervous about RPing a male but I think that winning a male as my first (and only) soq pushed me to try it. I won my soquili from a flaffle when he was a basket. If I had known he would be male I probably wouldn't have chosen him but now that I see him, I really love him for who he is and wouldn't trade him for anyone else in the event. (because I could have had any other as I was the first person rolled) So I think that I may choose one based off gender but I think it'd be better (for me) not knowing so that I can choose according to design and coloration which is important too.