[A] Throwbacks Permissions ideas/discussion

[ATh e a r t]

@req; sorry if it seemed like it D: I just read previous ones on how people didn't want their OC genes passed down x.x; I mean, I have a soq who isn't an OC, but I love her to death and I wasn't planning on breeding her either cuz i felt like she was special <3;

But yeah x.x Breeding is an owner's choice. What you do with baskets after that breeding is also an owner's choice. I think with breeding, people should know and understand that there is a gene pool that they started ;x;'

Though I do have to say, someone stealing another concept from someone is D< They should be infertile or have parts chopped of >w> <3;

But I still stick firmly to stealing an OC =/= a gene pool ^^;  

[Ktns]

*nods* I completely agree!

I just think, sometimes, there might be a 'special' occasion, which was the one I was referring to XD;;;  

[ATh e a r t]

Yeah D: Your situation is definitely understandable to have something like that <3; Otherwise.. If the OC's creator has the soq and doesn't want a gene pool... then no D: ! don't start a family with it oxo;

Or you could always breed and tell people "I DUN WANT YOU TO BREED THESE BABIES" or something...  

[JadeEye]

I cannot see how this would work without creating a BIGGER problem.

If you don't want your OC traits passing into a pool you aren't a fan of, then keep the offspring with people who understand this and will work accordingly to keep the traits where you want them.

If you breed just to breed, then it's your own carelessness that is letting your 'special snowflake' traits move into lines which you might not like. And honestly, trying to police this sort of thing only sounds like you (generally speaking, I don't mean you specifically, I mean anyone in general who this may apply) have a vendetta against someone to begin with.

Or...here's an idea. Don't breed the OC's if you aren't comfortable with the genes spreading.  

[Celeanor]

Genes are genes are genes. I'm not fond of restricting the creativity of colorists in general... or making life difficult for those who are doing breedings (which don't pay a lot and require quite a bit of work.) I personally have a lot of fun with watching throwbacks, like the trio that just popped. Their coloring clearly goes back to grandparents, and I <3 it!

So my vote goes to unrestricted, based on the simple fact that if I gave you a basket... I have given you permission to reference my family lines. Even if I hate your guts sometime in the future, that doesn't change the fact that I DID give you a basket once upon a time, and you are fully entitled to do with that basket what you wish. It would be...
A) A pain in the a** to regulate on the part of staffers.
B) Mean-spirited and downright childish.

And finally it would lead into a spiraling effect of drama and angst nobody needs.

But I understand having omg precious OCs or ubar-1337 omgcustomzmutantz. I really do. That STILL doesn't change the fact that choosing your soquili's breeding partner and the owner of said partner carefully, as well as any future basket owners would totally prevent 99% of the counter arguments in this thread. Put some thought into it, don't be terribly picky about everything (for example, you have all white soquili and you want the whole line white. This is admirable, but turning down a super AWESOME partner who you know you could trust because of it is silly) and you won't have problems. And as someone mentioned before, if you dislike what someone does eventually do with your lines... write them out of your storyline. Its really... really... really not that hard.

*thumbs up @ all* <3  

[Regal Renegade]

The girl in my sig currently is a product of throwbacks and I adore it. She has her grandfather and grandmother in her and it makes me feel as though she is tied into the family. Her siblings also look like her grandparents and I am not the least bit offended that they got it from my first custom soquili Callan. I think it somehow makes it so that the older soquili carry on to future generations. She doesn't look exactly like them so it isn't as though the pictures really mattered, it is more of a concept.  

[Meeki]

I think we should only have the right to keep our pets from being used in throwbacks.

First example:
If Reaper has a kid and that kid breeds with another mare, then their babies should have the right at any edits that the parents have. It's their pet. It becomes their property and any edits on that horse is also their property. So if it has a kalona tail and unicorn horn, whatever. It can be passed down.

Another example:
Say a Reaper grandchild with a kalona tail but angeni wings has a kid with a regular unicorn. If the baby comes out with spikes or edits that is NOT on the two pets bred, then I can cry foul. Because the colorist is obviously digging further back in the family line. Genes/Edits become less over time, not more. It waters down with each generation so obviously something is wrong if some baby comes out more mutant than the parents.

Conclusion:
I think the argument is moot if a horse you gave away has traits that you don't want passed down. As long as the pet they own HAS those specific traits, it should be able to be passed down. What they shouldn't be doing is taking your pet and using it in the throwbacks section, trying to get extra edits out of it, etc. Permission should be required for that.

Also, Sirenz told me 2+ years ago that I can keep Reaper's genes from passing on without permission. So I'm posting this based on information I was told personally by the shop founder years ago.

So I don't know what the problem is? Are people illegally grabbing other pets and using them as throwbacks? Because I always thought it was permission required.  

[USS_Galactica]

Meeki

So I don't know what the problem is? Are people illegally grabbing other pets and using them as throwbacks? Because I always thought it was permission required.

I am not entirely sure either.

I have never had to ask permission, I just used the ones that are part of that Soquili's line. I don't think it is against the rules.  

[moineau bavarde]

Oh genetics, you wacky thing. As a slight nerd rant, in real life traits can EASILY skip generations and do so all the time, whether it's a case of recessive genes, incomplete dominance, codominance, epistasis or whatever. (Incomplete dominance and codominance don't lead to a full skip, but you can still get things like red flower x white flower = 100% pink flowers, pink flower x pink flower = 25% red flowers, 50% pink flowers, 25% white flowers.) Traits don't really diminish or grow over time; either the gene is there or it isn't there. Whether it's expressed and how it's expressed is another story, but like the case with the pink flowers, there's no mixing of genes. (The pink flowers have one red gene and one white gene. The pink color can be either due to codominance or incomplete dominance - they are both pretty wacky!)

But, uh. Like I said, slight nerd rant, and not that relevant to the topic at hand because soq doesn't follow RL genetics. (Especially in the case of items and whether or not hair is braided or tied up in a bun or whatever. xd )

As to the issue at hand...

1) Throwback =/= custom reference for the simple reason that the COLORISTS are 100% in charge of which traits are passed, if any, and I for one trust them not to create a clone of any of the soqs in the throwback list.* On top of that a great many of the traits are rolled for, including throwbacks.

2) If you breed a soq, any and all of their traits might show up in future lines, even without throwbacks. And it can happen endlessly. Say you have Sparklebutt, and Sparklebutt is pink. Well then you might have:

• Sparklebutt mates with a gray soq and has a pink and gray baby, Twinkles.
• Twinkles mates with a purple soq and has a pink/white/gray baby, Specialsauce.
• Specialsauce mates with a dark and evil soq and has a dark and evil baby with a pink dot on its head, Twinkletoes.
• Twinkletoes mates with a green frog soq and has a pink baby with frog patterns, Sparklus Maximus.
• Etc etc etc.

And all of that can happen WITHOUT throwbacks; all the throwbacks do is add the possibility that traits will skip generations and decreases the odds that a particular throwback will "die" completely.

3) I don't think banning throwbacks is a good idea because I think it's somewhat complicated and unnecessary, but mostly due to points 1 and 2. Traits can be passed indefinitely without throwbacks, so the only way to prevent traits from passing on is to not breed your soq.

4) If throwbacks ARE banned, then a list of blanket "Nos" is the best option. It's the least amount of work and has the smallest potential for drama.


---
* Due to this, I don't think throwbacks should be allowed for mock breedings or custom babies (unless permission is granted) because at that point some of the control rests in the customer's hands instead of the colorist's, and that's a game changer.  

[hibi-tea]

If restrictions on throwbacks are going to occur, than it needs to be a blanket "Do Not Use" deal.

I dislike the idea of people being spitefully punished because there is a falling out between individuals. You made your bed with that person, and the mature thing to do is lay in it.

Also it's mostly in agreement that having to gain permission for each and every throwback in a family is a pain in the a**. If that had to be done in SoA, some people would be driven absolutely mad. So I can see where it could potentially drive people bonkers over here, especially if your Soq is from a long standing or prolific family.  

[lysia_nyteblade]

I agree with Celeanor  

[In Good Faith]

I still can't believe that this is an issue. You use the genetic idea when breeding in the first place. What is to keep you from using the previous generations?

Just some one please answer me this. If you want to keep your soquili's grand children from getting the traits of your soquili... why would you breed them in the first place considering the person that own's your soq's breeding partner will have a chance at getting your soquili's visual concept from the sibling?

It stands my opinion is still do not breed if you wish to keep certain soquili traits from being placed on any other separate pet. And the poll agrees with me.

I've never, ever been in a shop that didn't use throw backs and I would be highly disappointed if the shop were to implement the right for people to breed their soqs all they want, but keep the children from using their own parents in breedings.  

[Mia Lovasz]

I'm glad all of you agree on this. perhaps we can have the existing bans lifted? hoping sirenz will see this and realize how strongly everyone feels about this banning certain ppl from others certain ppl's throwbacks. not sure but I know I am banned from using certain soqs and as such, must admit i retaliated and banned those same ppl from using mine. I would gladly allow them to use mine if I can use theirs as well. whats good for the goose and good for the gander. fair is fair.

and yes genetics is genetics, blood is blood. which is why I wanted this discussion opened. so the voices of the owners in the shop could be heard. I would love nothing more than to see the bans lifted and gotten rid of. if someone wnats to ban a soq, i agree, it should be from anyone at all not jsut certain ppl....I'm not sure how this would be sorted out but either way, I say get rid of banning ppl from throwbacks.  

[In Good Faith]

I was oblivious to this being a problem, really. It never crossed my mind of being a problem. Recently, I've been opened up to many things in soquili that I didn't know happened though. =^=

Thank you for opening up the thread Mialee~ Hopefully Sirenz does read everyone's opinions and the staff is able to come up with a fitting compromise.