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Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:14 am
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Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:25 pm
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Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:37 pm
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Vanilla eXee I think that mostly applies to cat/dogs. It's possible for many other pets to create environments that are so realistic, they don't even know they're in captivity, nor do they want for anything.
Then we also have to consider, domestic cats and dogs (with the exception of ferals) are not from the wild. One could say that living in our homes is their natural habitat, just as it's become our habitat.
but still, with fish its so easy to put them in pain, just miss a couple water changes. and half the time we dont even feed our meat eating fish live food like they would have in the wild, we mostly feed them little pellets or flakes and often times we keep them in such small tanks compared to their size
and with cats and dogs they cant go outside, play, or do anything unless we say its ok
im not arguing that life in captivity is better for dsomesticated animals, but we cant meet all of their needs no matter how much we try
once again though, just something to think about
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Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:11 pm
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Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:15 pm
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Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:27 pm
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Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:50 pm
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Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:50 pm
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While I understand why you have posted this Shanna & I hope it will bring a good discussion, I would not call owning animals abuse.
Morally speaking, I consider animals to be lower than people. Not that I don't like them, not the case at all, but if it came to pick an animal's life or a person's, I would choose a persons. Nor do I think it is wrong to use animals for people's needs or enjoyment, whether it be food, companionship, or their services (guide dogs, cart-horses, etc). I view people as the stewards of nature and her animals - we can use them, but we must do so responsibly and take care of them.
I think abuse is when a person, through intent or neglect, does not provide for the basic needs of an animal - its physical and emotional well being - or causes it undue harm and stress. (If you can't do this, you should find someone who can.) Iams and Pedigree isn't good food, but neither is McDonalds, and you don't see children being taken out of their homes for things like that.
One must also judge the circumstance as a whole. If a person loses his job, he might have to feed his pet a lower quality food. There are people out there that rely on their livestock to feed their families, and don't have the resources for veterinary care. Some zoos have difficulties funding improvements. The California Condor, for instance was completely removed from the wild so it could be bred into a large enough population to survive as a species. These I would not consider it abuse, but that's not to say it is ideal or good.
I do not consider this a perfect world. Both the wild and captivity have their trials. The trials of a wild life would be things like predation, working hard for food, and untreatable illness and injury. These are things we can (usually) provide for in captivity. Captivity however means the animal is at the mercy of the person who cares for it. Society will never be perfect. Right now, no one can make someone not breed genetically unsound dogs. That being said, education and compassion exist in humanity, and these things can and should be shared between ourselves. We should all work to care for animals the best we can and educate others. The actions of some should not condemn everyone else.
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Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:59 pm
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Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:15 pm
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I think it IS arguable, yes. Not in the PETA OMG U SHUDNT HAV PETS ITZ MEEEN way, but, yes the relationship we have with our pets is a complicated one. Would I call it abusive? NO. But YES for many pets humans have to take a "master" role, and that is controversial if you believe animals are on the same level with people, ethically. Personally, I don't. I believe they deserve kindness, and should be treated ethically. But I don't think they should have THE same rights as humans... hence I am not vegan, though I am vegetarian-but I don't believe everyone has to be. I believe humans should still have more rights than animals, so VERY limited animal testing is acceptable, stuff like that. But, that is really just my OWN feelings on it all.
I think many of us, though, have more of Parent/Child relationship with their pets. Rather than a master/slave relationship I think many of us act the same way about our pets as we would about our own human children. Do we allow them complete freedom? No. Just like it wouldn't be safe to let a little child to run out in the road or eat whatever they want, we control them and keep them safe and healthy. Children have playpens... puppies have crates. They shouldn't be in there too much of the day, but I don't believe it is abuse.
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Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:47 pm
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It's not abusing when you consider the alternatives. There are three cats in this house:
Kitty #1 -- Diabetic She needs insulin shots twice a day. If tossed out on her own, she's not going to be able to hold a job that pays human money, take herself to the vet to get a prescription for insulin, go to a pharmacy to buy it or giving herself insulin shots. She actually got out of the house once, wouldn't leave the yard and came running back in at the first opportunity. She won't go anywhere near a door now.
Kitty #2 -- No Hunting Skills I adopted him when he was two years of age, but his background is that he was neutered as a kitten. He doesn't act like an adult cat at all. He's very dependent upon humans for things like food to the extent that when bugs come into the house, he just stares at them like he doesn't know they are fun things for kitties to kill. He does see me as his primary parent, doing things like kneeding at me that cats normally only do as kittens with their mommies. He clearly enjoys listening to music and watching people draw or paint. This is a cat who doesn't act like he's missing out by being indoors only.
Kitty #3 -- Former Stray Technically she was one of the neighbor's outdoor pets living in the wild of a suburban neighborhood but showed up at my house injured, so we took her in. She still favors this paw a lot and really cannot go back outside even though she sometimes acts like she wants to.
There is also a very mean dog that lives down the street from me on the same block. It barks at everyone that goes by the house, even cars, and is eventually going to get over the fence [as it's not that tall.] Animal control can't do anything about it so long as it remains in its own yard even if it is a potential danger to all the children and wandering cats in the neighborhood.
All my cats are fed a combination of Instinct [dry] and Tiki Cat [wet]. They have a ton of toys to the extent that are more cat toys in my house than on the shelves at PetSmart, and people often think we run a pet daycare. The cats also have their own cat furniture, found in several rooms, and the living room cat furniture looks like a small tree made of carpet.
I'd like to see someone try to explain to me how any of these cats are suffering for being in my home.
[I also volunteer at a no kill cat sanctuary. There is a cat there that I met only two weeks ago that would go home with my easily. Today, this kitty even ran up to greet me even though I only go in once a week.]
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Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:08 pm
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Sometimes I feel as though my cats would be better being free and in the wild to do as they please. But where I live, we have harsh winters, 6 months of -40 with windchill that will give them frostbite on their little ears. Then in the summer we have ticks, tons of them everywhere. It would be hard for them out there and they wouldn't live long happy lives out there constantly struggling and searching for food.
My cats eat a good food, they get fed twice a day like clockwork, they have a clean place to poop, a ton of toys to keep them amused, they have pretty much free reign over the house although I do try to keep them off the kitchen counters but they love to jump and climb around so they end up there anyways! During the spring/summer/fall there is always a window open so they can get fresh air, and I also have a harness for them so they can go outside to explore a bit even though they both hate it. I think of them as my children, I get home from going out and I see where they are and tell them I love them, I don't own them, if they own anyone in this relationship it's me! XD
Some might call it cruel, but I think that if everyone threw their pets outside and let them "be free" they would still be coming home to mommy and daddy.
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:22 am
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