Poor turtles...

[Vanilla eXee]

I was walking around downtown today after work. The downtown area of the city I live in is very touristy, so it's fun to look in all the shops and whatnot. Anyway, I saw a clothing store with a sign that said "Live Turtles" and had a picture of a turtle. I remembered seeing a lady walking home with a smallll critter keeper and two baby turtles one time, so I figured this place must be the culprit. Right when you walk in, there is maybe a 30g tank with at least 50 1 1/2 inch yellow bellied sliders. There was a tiny little note on the tank with some care info, like what temp to keep the water and what to feed them, but no mention of how big they get, how long they live, how much space they need, the zoonoses risk, or the fact that it's illegal to release them when they get too big for your critter keeper.

There is no top on the tank, they just let people walk right in and pick up the turtles. Whatever happened to the 4 inch law? I am going to try and look up everything I can about the legality of what they are doing and hopefully they will stop.  

[Cowgirl-with-heart]

you could get them in trouble,business and breeders are not allowed to sell turtles under 4 inches to anyone for any purpose but education,I did a lot of research on it when you and I discussed me getting a baby from you eventualy xP  

[Kipluck]

Oh that makes me so mad! You can just bet the people buying those turtles don't plan on getting a big enough tank for those turtles. They think they can live in those critter keepers forever.

I wouldn't be surprised if the store even told them they were "miniature." Just this week I saw it AGAIN in our local ads, some idiot selling "MINIATURE" turtles. They were RES! I wrote about it awhile ago. It pisses me off SO MUCH.

The law about turtles under 4 inches is under the jurisdiction of the FDA. Here is the law. And here is how you contact someone to report those jerks.  

[LuvByrd]

Needless to say, it does not sound like they are a responsible breeder/seller.

Aaaand I have just learned there was such a thing as a 4" rule. Out of curiosity, why is there one?  

[Kipluck]

LuvByrd

Needless to say, it does not sound like they are a responsible breeder/seller.

Aaaand I have just learned there was such a thing as a 4" rule. Out of curiosity, why is there one?

Truthfully, it is a LITTLE silly... but probably prevents at least SOME people from impulse buying turtles because they are cute and tiny. But the reason is because turtles can carry salmonella and little turtles fit into little children's mouths. Personally, I think PARENTS should be responsible for keeping their toddlers from SUCKING ON REPTILES rather than the federal government, but what do I know. And we have seen that parents are often incredibly stupid and the law is often ignored.  

[LuvByrd]

Kipluck

LuvByrd

Needless to say, it does not sound like they are a responsible breeder/seller.

Aaaand I have just learned there was such a thing as a 4" rule. Out of curiosity, why is there one?

Truthfully, it is a LITTLE silly... but probably prevents at least SOME people from impulse buying turtles because they are cute and tiny. But the reason is because turtles can carry salmonella and little turtles fit into little children's mouths. Personally, I think PARENTS should be responsible for keeping their toddlers from SUCKING ON REPTILES rather than the federal government, but what do I know. And we have seen that parents are often incredibly stupid and the law is often ignored.

Wow. Just, Wow. What moron would let their kid do THAT? >.< Ai yai yai...The blunt ignorance of some people  

[Intoxikace]

One of my friends bought a "miniature" turtle.
Yeah.. it just kept growing and growing and growing.
She's had it for well over two years now and loves it! But it sure wasn't the miniature turtle she was promised! She had to spend a lot of money to get a bigger tank and such which she was not prepared to do because the pet store failed to inform her that it would grow to become a HUGE turtle!

As much as pet stores want to make money, they need to realize that a lot of people who buy the animals want to know how big something gets so they can add up the costs right away.
Someone buying a "miniature" turtle and needing a 10 gallon tank is a huge price difference from someone buying an actual turtle and needing a 100 gallon tank. Yes that price difference will make a lot of people decide not to purchase a turtle, but you should be caring about the welfare of the animals and not the money. x_x  

[Kipluck]

Intoxikace

One of my friends bought a "miniature" turtle.
Yeah.. it just kept growing and growing and growing.
She's had it for well over two years now and loves it! But it sure wasn't the miniature turtle she was promised! She had to spend a lot of money to get a bigger tank and such which she was not prepared to do because the pet store failed to inform her that it would grow to become a HUGE turtle!

As much as pet stores want to make money, they need to realize that a lot of people who buy the animals want to know how big something gets so they can add up the costs right away.
Someone buying a "miniature" turtle and needing a 10 gallon tank is a huge price difference from someone buying an actual turtle and needing a 100 gallon tank. Yes that price difference will make a lot of people decide not to purchase a turtle, but you should be caring about the welfare of the animals and not the money. x_x

Exactly. Will it deter some people from buying the pet? Yes. But at least only those who want the pet for it's whole life will take it home.

My turtle, Tortuga, was much smaller than 4 inches when I got her. They got around the law by giving her as an educational "prize" in a drawing, I guess because I sure didn't expect a live turtle to arrive on my doorstep by regular post, wrapped in wet newspaper.

This is her in a Tablespoon.
This is the size she was when I found her there.
Super cute? YES. But I wasn't prepared. So she started out in a rubbermade bin, then a 10 gallon, then a 30, and unfortunatley that is what she is still in until I move out of my parent's house. But next step is 100 gallon for winter and a POND for warm seasons.
By the way, remember the Tablespoon? She won't even fit in a CUP now.
 

[Intoxikace]

Oh wow, at least you were still able to keep the large turtle since I know for a lot of people even if they want to keep the turtle they just don't have the money or the space to be able to handle something that large!  

[Cowgirl-with-heart]

Im ssoooo lucky,the one I have is only going to get 5 inches at most xD hes pretty much full grown,and hes grumpy,but sadly I believe theyre an illegal species here,which is a crock,considering the BORDER PATROL let him through,but there is no way he can escape from his tank,he rarely comes out cause he HATES it and tries to bite xD and hes VERY angry right now as he is on a diet haha. I did a lot of reading on the 4 inch rule,basically,if you are a hobby breeder you are allowed to sell them,but not if you are a large scale breeder or a business owner,thats what I have read a few times. (this of corse being exempt for the "educational" ones) but ever since I saw a baby tortie years and years ago,I have wanted one,Ima get a Russian Tortoise some day,hopefully from Vanilla smile  

[Vanilla eXee]

Kipluck

Oh that makes me so mad! You can just bet the people buying those turtles don't plan on getting a big enough tank for those turtles. They think they can live in those critter keepers forever.

I wouldn't be surprised if the store even told them they were "miniature." Just this week I saw it AGAIN in our local ads, some idiot selling "MINIATURE" turtles. They were RES! I wrote about it awhile ago. It pisses me off SO MUCH.

The law about turtles under 4 inches is under the jurisdiction of the FDA. Here is the law. And here is how you contact someone to report those jerks.

Thanks Kip! I need to go back to the store and find out what it's called, and then I'm going to report them.  

[Kipluck]

Cowgirl-with-heart

Im ssoooo lucky,the one I have is only going to get 5 inches at most xD hes pretty much full grown,and hes grumpy,but sadly I believe theyre an illegal species here,which is a crock,considering the BORDER PATROL let him through,but there is no way he can escape from his tank,he rarely comes out cause he HATES it and tries to bite xD and hes VERY angry right now as he is on a diet haha. I did a lot of reading on the 4 inch rule,basically,if you are a hobby breeder you are allowed to sell them,but not if you are a large scale breeder or a business owner,thats what I have read a few times. (this of corse being exempt for the "educational" ones) but ever since I saw a baby tortie years and years ago,I have wanted one,Ima get a Russian Tortoise some day,hopefully from Vanilla smile

I love baby Russians. SO freaking cute. And since they are rather hard to get CB, I may breed Bratanik someday, should I find an appropriate female.

Intoxikace

Oh wow, at least you were still able to keep the large turtle since I know for a lot of people even if they want to keep the turtle they just don't have the money or the space to be able to handle something that large!

It's true. And Tortuga is NOT in an ideal set up yet, being in only 30 gallons while I am at the padres'. (It isn't money. I could get a bigger tank. They won't let me HAVE one in the house, and the yard has too many feral cats who have already shown interest in Tortuga to have a cheap homemade pond, I would need something with a lid.) But as soon as I can, she deserves better. She is a SWEETHEART of a turtle. NEVER bites. I let her out to get some sunshine every so often and do give her a good, varied diet, but space is an issue for now.

Vanilla eXee

Kipluck

Oh that makes me so mad! You can just bet the people buying those turtles don't plan on getting a big enough tank for those turtles. They think they can live in those critter keepers forever.

I wouldn't be surprised if the store even told them they were "miniature." Just this week I saw it AGAIN in our local ads, some idiot selling "MINIATURE" turtles. They were RES! I wrote about it awhile ago. It pisses me off SO MUCH.

The law about turtles under 4 inches is under the jurisdiction of the FDA. Here is the law. And here is how you contact someone to report those jerks.

Thanks Kip! I need to go back to the store and find out what it's called, and then I'm going to report them.

NO problem. It's not that I actually feel that is a law that needs strict enforcing (I mean really... keeping turtles out of babies mouths?! We need a law?) but I have no problem USING that law to help turtles not end up in crappy situations.  

[Vanilla eXee]

Kipluck

NO problem. It's not that I actually feel that is a law that needs strict enforcing (I mean really... keeping turtles out of babies mouths?! We need a law?) but I have no problem USING that law to help turtles not end up in crappy situations.

Oh no, I feel the same way. I think the size limit is stupid, Lazy was about 3" when I got her, she's 4" now, and I could still lick her and get salmonella =P. BUT for the purposes of keeping turtles out of the hands of people who (however unintentionally) are not going to take proper care of them/a place that is selling them and not taking proper care of them, it's a good tool.  

[Vanilla eXee]

Cowgirl-with-heart

Im ssoooo lucky,the one I have is only going to get 5 inches at most xD hes pretty much full grown,and hes grumpy,but sadly I believe theyre an illegal species here,which is a crock,considering the BORDER PATROL let him through,but there is no way he can escape from his tank,he rarely comes out cause he HATES it and tries to bite xD and hes VERY angry right now as he is on a diet haha. I did a lot of reading on the 4 inch rule,basically,if you are a hobby breeder you are allowed to sell them,but not if you are a large scale breeder or a business owner,thats what I have read a few times. (this of corse being exempt for the "educational" ones) but ever since I saw a baby tortie years and years ago,I have wanted one,Ima get a Russian Tortoise some day,hopefully from Vanilla smile

That is if my crazy tortoise doesn't kill herself first. This morning when I went to feed her I caught her choking on a longer than normal strand of coco fiber. I had to pull it out of her throat, which was not easy since she retracted her head in her shell when I grabbed it rolleyes  

[Cowgirl-with-heart]

Vanilla eXee

Cowgirl-with-heart

Im ssoooo lucky,the one I have is only going to get 5 inches at most xD hes pretty much full grown,and hes grumpy,but sadly I believe theyre an illegal species here,which is a crock,considering the BORDER PATROL let him through,but there is no way he can escape from his tank,he rarely comes out cause he HATES it and tries to bite xD and hes VERY angry right now as he is on a diet haha. I did a lot of reading on the 4 inch rule,basically,if you are a hobby breeder you are allowed to sell them,but not if you are a large scale breeder or a business owner,thats what I have read a few times. (this of corse being exempt for the "educational" ones) but ever since I saw a baby tortie years and years ago,I have wanted one,Ima get a Russian Tortoise some day,hopefully from Vanilla smile

That is if my crazy tortoise doesn't kill herself first. This morning when I went to feed her I caught her choking on a longer than normal strand of coco fiber. I had to pull it out of her throat, which was not easy since she retracted her head in her shell when I grabbed it rolleyes

scream Lazy you be careful! I want to get a baby from you! I want to make sure its NOT wild caught,and I know your mamma takes good care of you! and Kip,I know,theyre so adorable as they are basically a smaller version of an adult,the moment I saw my first pic of a baby tortoise,it was instant love and I decided then and there that some day,I WOULD have a baby tortoise xD