Maybe I'm being elitist and pro-intellectual...

[Bao Sanniang]

But I feel America's educational system is kind of a joke due to No Child Left Behind...

I hear it puts so much focus on making sure everyone meets a minimum standard, resulting in more emphasis being put on educating the slower students than promoting and challenging the gifted students.

I would prefer a return to the old days where the slower students just failed and got sent to classes and/or schools for special needs students rather than have the slower students hold back the gifted students. Intellectual greatness should not be wasted so early in life.

Before you judge me, I was a special needs student myself but was among the gifted. I had a selective attention span that has followed me to this very day. I just feel that educating slow students should not mean less education for gifted people.  

[ThisEmptySoul]

I say children that excel should be allowed to receive higher education rather than be stuck in the same grade just because they're a certain age. I also think more teachers should actually be trying to educate their students rather than just shoving material down their throats and expecting them to do it {which is what "no child left behind" is all about}, not caring whether or not they actually learn anything in the process.

That's what the majority of my teachers were like. They just gave us busy work rather than teaching. The education system was a joke even before "no child left behind". That program just made it that much worse.  

[seraphimstarlight]

Personally, I don't mind letting the less intellectually oriented students take their sweet time learning on two conditions. One: The students who excel shouldn't be held back on account of the less intellectual students. And two: the students who excel should NOT be expected to cater to or "make up for" the fact that the lower level students are at that lower level.

Unfortunately, the system never seems to work that way.

I mean, maybe I'm being biased or self-important, but I really don't think that school (especially elementary ,middle or high school) are that hard. For the most part, what is being taught there is less than minimum standard. Lowering the standard even further to accomodate those who cannot or, perhaps will not learn only produces a batch of less-than-competent students in my opinion.  

[damecharlie]

NCLB was a good idea in theory and created with the best of intentions at heart, however, the road to hell is paved with such. One of the main problems with it is that it wants everyone to jump the same bar, and that's just not possible, no matter how much we want it to be. Like ya'll have said already, it's hurting not only the gifted students and the special needs students but every student in between. If a child can jump a ten foot bar, why make them only jump a five foot? On the other side of the spectrum, if a child, at their best, trying their hardest, can only jump a two foot bar, why the crap are we doing to try and make them jump a five foot one?

Another problem with it is if it is basically wanting everyone to jump the same hurtle, which would be "average" then its wanting everyone to be average. But if there's no below average and no above average then there is essentially no average. To have an average you have to have both below and above, yeah?

Like I said, made with the best of intentions. But, we know about that...

A lotta things sound good on paper but don't really work out well in the real world...like communism  

[Sakura_Moonlight2421]

sweatdrop ......not to be rude or anything but isn't that what skipping a grade is for. If you can excel that your ahead of everyone else, why don't you just skip that grade instead of complaining?  

[damecharlie]

I'm pretty sure when you are in like kindergarten and can do multiplication tables and read on a fourth grade level you still don't really realise you can skip grades. You're still only five. It's not really up to the student. It's up to the parents making a fuss, the teachers making a recommendation, and then a whole crapton more of red tape and policies. It's not as easily done as it is said. Not to mention, just because a child can do upper grade work, does not mean that the child is ready emotionally/socially/what-have-you to be skipping grades to be with older children. I mean...would you really want your five year old in the same class with ten year olds? Sounds kinda shady and like a bully problem waiting to happen.

I would suggest (if this were a perfect world, which it's not) keeping the child in the same grade until it gets older and just giving the kindergartner fourth grade work to do. -shrugs- I mean in elementary school and middle school, skipping grades is hard to do. Unless someone makes a fuss/case for the child. Now in high school, much easier to take advanced classes and get the crap outta dodge as quick as possible. 3nodding  

[Sakura_Moonlight2421]

damecharlie

I'm pretty sure when you are in like kindergarten and can do multiplication tables and read on a fourth grade level you still don't really realise you can skip grades. You're still only five. It's not really up to the student. It's up to the parents making a fuss, the teachers making a recommendation, and then a whole crapton more of red tape and policies. It's not as easily done as it is said. Not to mention, just because a child can do upper grade work, does not mean that the child is ready emotionally/socially/what-have-you to be skipping grades to be with older children. I mean...would you really want your five year old in the same class with ten year olds? Sounds kinda shady and like a bully problem waiting to happen.

I would suggest (if this were a perfect world, which it's not) keeping the child in the same grade until it gets older and just giving the kindergartner fourth grade work to do. -shrugs- I mean in elementary school and middle school, skipping grades is hard to do. Unless someone makes a fuss/case for the child. Now in high school, much easier to take advanced classes and get the crap outta dodge as quick as possible. 3nodding

.-. Actually I was referring to when your in High school....I already understand that at earlier ages it can get sketchy; as my little brother does have a classmate that skipped a grade early in elementary school due to his mother's persistence. He had all kinds of problems back then but he's doing fine now.  

[damecharlie]

From what I understand, not that it's really mentioned much to parents and students, which it should be, is that high school is much like college. You only need a certain number of credit hours in certain subject areas. Once you get all those, there's really nothing much holding you back from graduating early. 3nodding There is also dual enrollment. smile  

[Ryzan Vixtul]

If I am not mistaken, I believe "no child left behind" was only applied to elementary level students. So if you were already aware that it was difficult to skip a grade at that age, then I do not see why it was seen as the logical alternative here.  

[damecharlie]

It's all grades. It's just more apparent in elementary and middle school because they don't necessarily do 'specialised' classes such as "chemistry" or "world history" or such. 3nodding  

[Lil Brat]

Good intentions ~ LOL. Yes, it was good intentions, but as Damey pointed out, our school system is set up to make all the square pegs fit in to one round hole. These are not just "kids", they are small human beings with individual characteristics and needs. Wishes we'd remember that.

Understands both sides of that fence with three kids who follow like this:

First one is the super-achiever ~ able to leap tall mountains and excels scholastically. She had to go to the running start program because the school didn't offer higher classes (classes required for acceptance to most colleges.) gonk

Second one is the slow-starter ~ at 17 she is still at the 7th grade level and hasn't passed a class since 6th grade. She doesn't qualify for the special programs since she's not learning-disabled and she's not a behavior-problem kid. She just learns differently than other kids. The child left behind, slipped through the cracks. Have had to fight the school system 40 ways of Sunday for this one, and gotten nowhere. stare

The littlest one takes after the oldest most of the time, though more of a social butterfly and has to work a little harder. Suspect she'll also do running start since the school still does not offer Higher classes.  

[damecharlie]

Lil Brat

Good intentions ~ LOL. Yes, it was good intentions, but as Damey pointed out, our school system is set up to make all the square pegs fit in to one round hole. These are not just "kids", they are small human beings with individual characteristics and needs. Wishes we'd remember that.

Understands both sides of that fence with three kids who follow like this:

First one is the super-achiever ~ able to leap tall mountains and excels scholastically. She had to go to the running start program because the school didn't offer higher classes (classes required for acceptance to most colleges.) gonk

Second one is the slow-starter ~ at 17 she is still at the 7th grade level and hasn't passed a class since 6th grade. She doesn't qualify for the special programs since she's not learning-disabled and she's not a behavior-problem kid. She just learns differently than other kids. The child left behind, slipped through the cracks. Have had to fight the school system 40 ways of Sunday for this one, and gotten nowhere. stare

The littlest one takes after the oldest most of the time, though more of a social butterfly and has to work a little harder. Suspect she'll also do running start since the school still does not offer Higher classes.

Giiiirl, I woulda already tried to get those kids in a different school! WTC, man? What is wrong with your school system. sad -hugs-  

[purpleravenhawk]

Around here, when a kid doesn't do well enough to pass the standardized tests that NCLB requires, the schools tend to just expel them on some flimsy excuse so they don't drag the district scores down. It's sad.  

[Lil Brat]

@Dame: Unable to provide transportation to another district due to commute to/from work. Got notified this summer that since the district failed the NCLB, I could move the kids w/o putting in for a hardship... Huh stare

@purpleravenhawk: Our system tends to want to "discipline" the kids who don't pass their stupid WASL tests. Having seen they way they score those tests, grrr. State is now trying to come up with another set of tests.  

[Psyzapp]

Lil Brat

Second one is the slow-starter ~ at 17 she is still at the 7th grade level and hasn't passed a class since 6th grade. She doesn't qualify for the special programs since she's not learning-disabled and she's not a behavior-problem kid. She just learns differently than other kids. The child left behind, slipped through the cracks. Have had to fight the school system 40 ways of Sunday for this one, and gotten nowhere. stare

She doesn't qualify? Really? Have you gotten her tested? I have 2 children who are diagnosed with ADD (inattentive type) and with this many other learning issues can be in conjunction with it. They don't have severe external compulsions, but are distracted internally…meaning they are not a disruption in class. These are quiet children who are good looking, intelligent, well mannered, but so easily slip under the radar because they aren't a behavior-problem.

TONS of fighting with the schools and teachers here. Lots of teachers are so uninformed. Not all, but LOTS of them when it comes to children such as this. Fighting with them is no fun at all.

Seems the older the kids get, the more they resist setting a kid up with a 504(c) or an IEP. Don't want to be accountable or legally responsible for the success of the child. emotion_eyebrow My nephew has ADD and Aspergers and the staff at the school he attends is giving his parents the "ol song and dance" not wanting to issue him any help because he's in 9th grade. This kid HAS A MEDICAL DIAGNOSIS for crying out loud and my sister-in-law is overwhelmed and buying the crap they are slinging. mad