Living with Insulinoma (ferrets)

[Miles To Go]

I don't know where to begin. I've only had ferrets for a little over a year, and knowing that one has cancer makes me feel like there's nothing I can do.

An exotics vet gave the diagnosis, and put her on prednisone. .02 ML twice a day dosing. We'd been using nutrical to keep her diet stable, but were told it causes a rollercoaster effect because of the sugar in it, and she can't/shouldn't eat it anymore.

My mom had eye surgery a few months ago, and for the first two days after the vet visit, was giving the ferret .2 ML once a day. (unknown to myself, obviously)

The ferret was doing great these first two days. But several days ago, she crashed. I can only speculate that the overdosing caused the blood sugar to go TOO high.

So now she's down again. Stopped eating again. I've taken over her medicine, but it doesn't feel like enough. .02ML is just a drop. And she doesn't seem to be responding to it now, either.

I am leaving the month of December, and I can't take the ferret with me. I am terrified that my mom will neglect the ferret's needs, or decide to put her down. (she already keeps pushing me to choose euthanization)

She keeps insisting that fruity is suffering, and unless her diet can get back on track, she is clearly miserable. If we get the surgery, it wouldn't be until the end of January so that I can give her full care afterwards.

I finally know what's wrong with her, but I feel like I still have no way of knowing what she NEEDS from me. I don't want her to suffer, and my mom's peanut gallery comments, constantly claiming she's "going to die any moment" or "suffering:, are only making me struggle with the situation even more.

I want her to be able to live normally and comfortably, even if that means medicine for the rest of her life. But if she is suffering and I can't make it better, I don't want to force her to live through it.

What is it even like, keeping a ferret long term who has insulinoma?  

[Skeksis]

I'm sorry, I know this must be hard for you. Very sorry. sad

Perhaps the Prednisone dose needs to be readjusted. Tell your vet what you just said here- that she did very well on the higher dose but is not responding to the smaller one.
Medication is just one part of managing this disease- diet is the other. There are several things that can be done if you wish to manage Insulinoma as much as you can for as long as you can.

The first step is to remove all carbohydrates from her diet. As you know, ferrets are obligate carnivores and carbohydrates -both complex and simple- are extremely taxing and rough on their digestive systems. Basically, processing carbohydrates really stresses the pancreas which over time results in the development of little lesions that secrete Insulin. Once a ferret has developed Insulinoma processing carbohydrates becomes even more taxing.
So, get rid of any grains, sugars, cereals etc from her diet. Your vet was correct to scrap the Nutrical. What foods do you feed?

The second step is keeping food readily available. If an insulinoma ferret goes too long without eating [even by sleeping too long, for example], it experiences low blood glucose levels. This makes the ferret feel tired and a little ill, which makes it less likely to eat. That is a very vicious cycle which needs to be broken. So the ferret must eat as frequently as possible, and you must make eating seem easy and appealing.
-Place food on every level of the cage.
- Place food right next to the ferret's bed.
-If the ferret has been asleep for a long time, wake it up and get it to eat.
-Every time the ferret is awake, offer it food.
-Food, food, food.

The third step is the type of food. A diet of just kibble isn't going to cut it long term and frankly, if the ferret isn't feeling well then crunching up kibble is going to seem like a lot of effort. So the food has to be very appetising. By all means keep kibble available, but there will need to be more. Do you feed a soup? If not, now is the time to do so.
A good simple soup is ground up kibble and chicken with a dash of heavy cream [not the pre-whipped canned stuff]. Mix it up with warm water until it is a little runny. You can make a big batch, pour into ice cube trays and freeze- one cube is a perfectly sized meal. You can give one in the morning and one at night, and you can even keep a bowl permanently next to her bed. It will really help, and even ferrets that feel very ill find it hard to resist soup.

Other useful foods; lactose free pet milk [make sure it contains no extra sugars], Di-Vetelact if you can get it.

Basically just feed her a high protein, low carbohydrate sludge as often as she will eat it.

It is certainly more work than just medicating and feeding as per usual, but people have had lots of success managing Insulinoma ferrets in this manner. Insulinoma ferrets can be kept quite comfortable and happy. Avoiding blood sugar crashes are the key.  

[Miles To Go]

Right now, she's on kibble. Before we saw the new vet, the other one gave us a recipe for duck soup. Couldn't get her to eat it though, and it has sugar in it so that recipe is out the window too.

She's almost 4 years old, so getting her to take new foods is really difficult. She likes the Carnivore Care mix we were given to supplement her protein, but even that she will only eat after we force her to try it first.

I've been able to keep check on her by her eating sounds. When she's doing well, her crunching on kibble wakes me up in the middle of the night. When she's not, I don't hear it at all.

You mentioned a steady food cycle. I've been letting her eat on her own, and feeding her myself in the morning and before bed (same times as her medicine). Because she's been doing poorly, I was thinking of doing the feedings 3 times a day, instead of twice. Do you think that's enough to keep her from crashing, or are the feeding gaps still too large?

As far as type of food.. She's so picky with her food! We tried crushing the kibble to make it easier for her, but she only eats whole pieces. I would very much like to get her into a soup mix, if she'll accept it. Right now we've got Gerber Chicken baby food, but it's not a long term solution by any means.

For the soup you mention chicken, and cream? What kind of chicken, and what kind of cream? I've never really heard of just a plain cream before, sorry if it's a stupid question @_@

Ske if you hadn't mentioned your ferret surviving over a year with insulinoma (in my other thread), I would have already given up hope after seeing how bad she's been lately. I really really really appreciate your guidance with this.  

[Krissim Klaw]

My boy Blade survived a year-year and half with insulinoma. Because of his age we did not opt for surgery. The big thing with it is getting the right dosage on the meds. It can take a little time at first because the vet is going to want you to slowly up the dosage until you can find the lowest dose possible that will do the job. Once you find that dose though you won't even be able to tell she has an issue. As time passes you may go through periods where the dose needs to be adjusted, but this is a very manageable condition.

Don't let your mother stress you out about torturing your ferret. Unless the tumor gets huge, this isn't the type of condition that generally cause much pain. She is going to feel lethargic until you find the right dosing, but once you do she will bounce right back.  

[Skeksis]

Miles To Go

Right now, she's on kibble. Before we saw the new vet, the other one gave us a recipe for duck soup. Couldn't get her to eat it though, and it has sugar in it so that recipe is out the window too.

Probably not a bad thing- you can make superior soups in your own kitchen. smile

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She's almost 4 years old, so getting her to take new foods is really difficult. She likes the Carnivore Care mix we were given to supplement her protein, but even that she will only eat after we force her to try it first.

Yeah they can be terribly stubborn....hang in there, though! Just keep making her taste it, even if you have to force her every time. My old Azzy sounds a lot like yours...she was nine years old and didn't like to eat her soup unless it was on a spoon. If it ws on a spoon she liked it just fine. rolleyes Silly old weasel.
The Carnivore Care is the Oxbow stuff, isn't it? It's great that she's eating that; it is basically a nutritionally complete soup [if mixed thinly enough].

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I've been able to keep check on her by her eating sounds. When she's doing well, her crunching on kibble wakes me up in the middle of the night. When she's not, I don't hear it at all.

It's very good that you're keeping her so close to hand, it will really allow you to monitor her effectively. Those quiet periods in which she doesn't eat are the ones you want to try to avert, even if it's just by leaving a bowl of lactose free pet milk next to her bed. Have you ever tried her on that? For some reasons ferrets absolutely love it. Even picky set-in-their-ways ferrets.

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You mentioned a steady food cycle. I've been letting her eat on her own, and feeding her myself in the morning and before bed (same times as her medicine). Because she's been doing poorly, I was thinking of doing the feedings 3 times a day, instead of twice. Do you think that's enough to keep her from crashing, or are the feeding gaps still too large?

Three set feedings a day is a great start, and I recommend using the Carnivore Care for those set feedings; because it contains less carbohydrates than kibble, the energy she gets from it will last longer and will have less of a crash and burn effect. She'll have more energy to get her to the next feeding and will have more strength to pick at the kibble in between. Feeding sloppy foods will also really help with her hydration. 3nodding
Three set feedings is great, but if you can also feed at other times- if you have a moment to spare, if she wakes up, etc...then taking the opportunity to feed her at those times will greatly help.

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As far as type of food.. She's so picky with her food! We tried crushing the kibble to make it easier for her, but she only eats whole pieces. I would very much like to get her into a soup mix, if she'll accept it. Right now we've got Gerber Chicken baby food, but it's not a long term solution by any means.

I feel your pain...I really do! Try crushing the kibble again, but this time let it soak in warm water. Make it kinda runny- not totally liquid, but so it can drip off the end of a spoon. Make her try that...it'll be a new texture, but not entirely unfamiliar, and she will be familiar with the taste. That's a great way to start ferrets on soup.

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For the soup you mention chicken, and cream? What kind of chicken, and what kind of cream? I've never really heard of just a plain cream before, sorry if it's a stupid question @_@

Not a stupid question at all! We live in different countries so it can be hard describing products accurately.

For cream you'll want the Heavy Whipping Cream, or Double Cream. Avoid the stuff that comes in a container like this:



Boiled, ground up breastmeat is good chicken, but you can use any type, really. As it will be cooked discard any bones. Soups are not generally nutritionally complete, but that doesn't matter as long as the ferret is still eating kibble. You could also add the Gerber's baby food, and the Carnivore Care.

This is a good consistency for soup:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjLsFMqXDNk

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Ske if you hadn't mentioned your ferret surviving over a year with insulinoma (in my other thread), I would have already given up hope after seeing how bad she's been lately. I really really really appreciate your guidance with this.

I think that may have been Krissim; I have never had a fert with Insulinoma. However, managing the diet of a ferret with Insulinoma is not at all different to managing the diet of very old or very sick ferrets-or both- and I have done that many times, and know that it has greatly helped others with Insulinoma ferrets.
The most notable of my ferrets who benefited from a feeding program was Azalea, who I mentioned above. When she was around eight she began to sleep heavily, and whilst she didn't have Insulinoma she would miss meals that she couldn't afford to miss; she was a tiny ferret and dropped weight quickly and she had precious little to lose due to her Adrenal Cancer. In addition to that she had Periodontal Disease and crunching kibble was painful, so when she did eat it wasn't much. I fed her soup in the morning when I got up, left lactose free pet milk for her when I went to class, fed her immediately when I got home, then again at dinner, then again just before I went to bed, at which point I would leave both soup, milk and kibble available. She put on a lot of condition, picked up remarkably and was quite happy and active until she had a stroke at nine years of age. I firmly believe frequent feedings added nearly a year to her life.

With the right dose of medication and frequent feedings there is every chance that Fruitcake will regain a good quality of life. smile And you are most welcome- happy to help however I can.  

[Miles To Go]

Ah!! Then thank you Ske for your invaluable dietary help, and Kris for the hope <3

Yeah, Carni Care is the oxbow stuff. I really like the vet we found. She's an exotics, so she sees ferrets all the time. Aaand, she actually helps with the Zoo animals, so she's probably the best we could've found. ^_^

I just have one really big question: The surgery. (if anyone knows).
They said she's healthy enough to get it, and I want to get it done. But the estimate they gave us wasn't very helpful. It will either cost 600, or 1.5k (if they see anything on the adrenal). 600 is easily manageable, but 1.5k is a bit much. Plus it will undoubtedly be hard on her (poor thing pissed herself just from getting blood drawn >.<)

How big of a difference do you think the surgery would make?