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What if Jesus meant every word He said? 

Tags: God, Jesus, The Holy Spirit, The Bible, Truth, Love, Eternal Life, Salvation, Faith, Holy, Fellowship, Apologetics 

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Ready the Canon

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:57 am
I believe in religious freedom. I believe in general freedom.

I'm going to proposition some controversial topics in hopes of understanding your many views.

Keep in mind that it's good to observe all sides of an argument, without actually turning it into an argument.

Topics of Church vs. State:

-Evolution/Creationism/Big Bang Theory teachings in schools.
-Marriage [Between non-christians, homosexuals, ect.]
-Abortion [Termination of pregnancy due to either rape or personal choice.] Contreception.
-Pre-marrital sex.

Topics of Religion vs. Faith:

-Practice of ritualistic religion.
-Exposure of religion to Children/Peers/Persons [Christ-advocacy in the home and in the street]
-Personal Practice vs. Organized practice of worship. [ritual attendance of church]


More added as ideas pop up, but mid-writing, I hadn't realized I was supposed ot be heading out. I'll express my opinions soon.  
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:59 am
If you are asking about our view points on some of all the topics you
listed:

Evolution/Creationism/Big Bang Theory taught in schools:

I personally don't care for evolution or the big bang theory taught in schools for the fact that it's not what I believe. Although, I realize that not everyone believes in creationism, either. In that case, I wish they would put out there that evolution is a "theory" instead of spoon feeding it to you like fact. In a lot of history or science classes I've taken, they apologize if you don't believe and then try to teach evolution like it's a well-known fact. If they taught evolution as being a "theory" and not a fact then I could understand. It may be even better if they would teach evolution and creationism instead of one or the other.

I believe that God made the world and everyone in it in accordance to Genesis 1 and 2.

Also, there are plenty of animals and bugs that defy evolution so I never saw it as logical or even possible. If God didn't make the animals then how is it that all these animals are alive? Giraffe's have to stand a certain way to drink and their body accommodates for the blood flow. The bombardier beetle has a mix of chemicals it shoots out of it's body and the spray becomes hot and can kill other bugs. If that bug would've gotten rid of it the first time, how would it know to mix those chemicals right and shoot it out of it's body in such a way that it doesn't burn itself? Some things that animals do seem nearly impossible, but with God, everything is possible.

Marriage between non-Christians/homosexuals/etc.

My view point on unequally yoked dating/marriage can be found on another
forum in this guild here.

When two non-Christians get married, sometimes I feel a bit sad because
I wish they were saved, and fear that it's possible that they may be more susceptible to drink, cheat on their partner, have multiple sex partners, etc. This isn't always true, because there are some moral non-Christian couples. It's a bit of a "whatever" situation to me, but I wish for many people to be saved. I would have everyone saved if I could, but I know that's not possible.

I don't believe in marriage between gay couples. I believe that God made us to be married man and woman in order to reproduce and populate the earth. If we do what is against that, especially, then I believe it is blasphemy against God's design for our lives.

Here's a few scriptures about homosexuality to support my view:

Leviticus 18:22 NIV:

“‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.

Leviticus 20:13 NIV:

“‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

*Also, in the next verse I post below this, it shows an example of

homosexuality and Lot called it a "wicked thing" and also showed how corrupt Sodom was (although, homosexuality couldn't have possibly been
the only form of corruption because Lot's daughters were to marry a few
men in Sodom) - thus how it ended in destruction with Gomorrah:

Genesis 19:4-8 NIV:

Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”

Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him and said,
“No, my friends. Don’t do this wicked thing. Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don’t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.”

Abortion [Termination of pregnancy due to either rape or personal choice.] Contraception.

I don't believe that under any circumstance is it okay for someone to abort a child. It doesn't matter whether it was a pregnancy due to premarital sex, cheating on one's spouse, being raped, because of the child's gender, because they will be born with a life time disability, or because the parent(s) won't be able to afford to care for the child. Children are innocent and shouldn't be killed simply because the mother makes a choice not to keep her child or is forced into doing so by a family member or a biological father. Children are innocent and God made each child unique and with a purpose:

Psalm 129:13-14 NIV:

For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.

*I believe that everyone in this world has a purpose and fulfill the word of God and to accept the calling He has in our lives. Every child deserves a chance at life and killing the helpless doesn't solve problems because abortion is killing those who are helpless and innocent. It may be legal, but it isn't morally correct in God's eyes to kill the innocent and the helpless. There is also a better alternative option to have the baby and to give the baby to an adoptive family if needed. The option is way better than abortion, and in turn you can bless someone else who is unable to have a child or simply wants to adopt to help someone else out. There's nothing more special than a bond between mother and child.

Amos 1:13 - 14 NIV:

This is what the LORD says:

“For three sins of Ammon,
even for four, I will not relent.
Because he ripped open the pregnant women of Gilead
in order to extend his borders,
I will set fire to the walls of Rabbah
that will consume her fortresses
amid war cries on the day of battle,
amid violent winds on a stormy day.

*In this verse, it's possible the context means that the pregnant women were killed, or even possible the children ripped from them. Either way, they were condemned for murder. There is probably a good reason that he mentioned "pregnant women" and not just "women". However, what happened to the women and their unborn children was clearly against God's will.

Psalm 127:3 KJV:

Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.

*This shows that children are a true blessing. I chose the KJV for the reason that the wording seems more detailed, meaningful, and accurate. Considering children are a blessing from God, if we killed a blessing, I imagine there would be consequences for it because there was also life with that blessing.

Psalm 106:35 - 38 NIV:

but they mingled with the nations
and adopted their customs.
They worshiped their idols,
which became a snare to them.
They sacrificed their sons
and their daughters to demons.
They shed innocent blood,
the blood of their sons and daughters,
whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan,
and the land was desecrated by their blood.

*If God wouldn't want us to sacrifice innocent children then I don't see why God would let the thought of abortion pass as "okay". God is against killing the innocent. When a woman is pregnant, she has a child, so if how some people say there are "shapeless/unformed cells" in her body and it's okay to abort then she isn't really called "pregnant" considering the definition of pregnant is: "having a child or other offspring developing in the body; with child or young, as woman or female mammal." other definitions describe the word meaning "highly significant" or "of great importance".

As far as contraception goes - I only believe in methods that prevent the sperm from reaching the egg, otherwise known as a combined contraceptive in accordance to pills, which I believe is the only one that should be allowed to take. I don't agree with the other types of pills that let the sperm reach the egg, but makes it so the egg cannot attach. I believe that life starts once the sperm comes in contact with the egg. I believe in other forms of contraception like condoms, IUD's, etc. and permanent contraception procedures are okay.

Pre-marital Sex

I believe that sex before marriage is not acceptable at all and should not be done. All of us should wait until marriage for sex. When you have sex with someone, it spiritually binds you to that person and if you have sex with more than one person before you're married then that leads to adultery. We shouldn't make ourselves vulnerable to situations that can lead to sex. Preventing pre-marital sex requires us to gain self-control and not to fall prey.

1 Corinthians 7:1-5 KJV:

Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband. The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.

Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.

1 Corinthians 7:8-9 NIV:

Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

*These verses show that it is better for someone to be married and then have sex instead of lusting after others before marriage. The Bible does not have a Hebrew or Greek word used to describe pre-marital sex. However, the apostle Paul describes "marriage" as the cure for lust. There is only a "cure" offered for something than is wrong, not something that is right. In my opinion, I believe that pre-marital sex can cause other issues such as adultery because if you have sex with someone before marriage and then they don't like you or end up dumping you, you will probably look for someone that treats you better possibly and then if they have sex with you and leave you then it's a vicious cycle and I have sadly seen friends go through it before and they feel "filthy" about their lifestyle and regret it, even if they don't believe in God, they tend to have a sense of "guilt".

Practice of ritualistic religion

I personally can't say much regarding this topic because I do not understand what type of "ritualistic religion" you are looking at specifically because there are a lot of different rituals that we do as human beings and a lot of those do lie in religion as well. There are too many to be able and I don't want to ramble on aimlessly if I'm not sure what type of "ritualistic" things you are referring to and I apologize that I do not understand.

Exposure of religion to Children/Peers/Persons [Christ-advocacy in the home in the street]

I fully believe in the exposure of the word of God to children, peers, and other peoples (I choose not to use religion in this case because religion can tie us to values that man has created and be more concentrated on religion instead of the true word of God). I may have been raised in a church with values that weren't Biblical, but when I got older, met someone who was able to explain things to me in a clearer light, and was moved out of my home - I am of course free to make that decision of what I want to follow. I grew up believing in God, even if the church I had attended didn't believe in everything Biblical. I still had faith in God and that kept me going a lot of the time. Even if children are exposed to spiritual beliefs, they will eventually have the freedom to choose. However, I would treat it as a different situation if I adopted a child that wasn't Christian because I wouldn't want to shove beliefs in their face and make them feel unwelcome in my home and they can go to church when they are ready and join in Bible studies if they like. However, I would still try to save them if I was able to.

I encourage witnessing to others, including friends, relatives, and strangers:

1 Peter 3:15 NIV:

But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

Mark 16:15 NIV:

He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Matthew 28:18-20 NIV:

Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Colossians 4:2-6 NIV:

Devote yourselves to prayer, being watchful and thankful. And pray for us, too, that God may open a door for our message, so that we may proclaim the mystery of Christ, for which I am in chains. Pray that I may proclaim it clearly, as I should. Be wise in the way you act toward outsiders; make the most of every opportunity. Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.

*There's are only a few verses about witnessing to others the word of God. I believe and encourage witnessing to other people. However, I am highly against shoving the word in someone's face. I instead believe in gentle, non-aggressive approaches, and being incredibly careful of word choice as not to offend someone.

Personal Practice vs. Organized practice of worship [ritual attendance of church]

I'm not sure if I would necessary correlate personal and organized expression of beliefs against each other. Studying personal beliefs at home every day is something that we should do to keep a strong relationship with Christ. However, organized expression of our beliefs can help us aid in our personal relationship with christ. sometimes when we are around other believers, we have someone to confess sins to, someone to ask for prayer, and someone to keep us from going astray in our walk with Christ. However, personal readings of God's word and alone time with God and his word are incredibly uplifting and give us that sense of privacy in that special relationship with our creator.

However, I do not believe that going to a church is required. I do encourage others to go to church if they can find the right one. In some places in this world, finding a church that is right according to the word of God can be difficult. No church will be perfect, and we need to be careful in what church we choose. I encourage home church and Bible studies as well for the fact that it helps us in our walk with Christ.

It's not wrong to go to church once every week or more than that whether it's on the same days or not. I believe that a ritual attendance of going to church can also sometimes make us lose our focus on our walk with Christ because some people can be more concerned on getting to church on time than God's word and this should not be so. Churches that put themselves before family and require you to stay so long at the church is not appropriate and I call that spiritual abuse because it takes away from the family unit, which is also important in God's eyes. Take care of your family is always a priority that needs to be dealt with before attending church. If one does not attend church every week, or misses a few services isn't sinning because of it. Normally, I read the word of God both by myself and with my husband whether it's once a week, every day, or every other day. It is best to try and aim for every day time with God and Christ, our Savior.

I have a pet peeve when there are those who are Sunday morning Christians only. Meaning they only act Christian once a week and try to be holy only on a Sunday or whatever day they go to worship, but the rest of the week - anything goes. That bothers me and should not be done. Sometimes that's also why I believe ritual attendance to church can make us lose focus - especially if we end up attending a church that spiritually abuses its' members. If we attend church, we must not lose focus to the most important focus at hand - God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. We should study our Bibles throughout the week to be sure we don't fall prey to false doctrine in churches and always bring our Bibles with us to a church service to make sure they are saying what is in the Bible and not what they made up themselves.

1 John 4:1 NIV:

Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.  

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 5:20 am
Hmm...these are some tough topics for me, especially abortion. While I do agree with Aquatic_blue...hmm....then there's also a situation of when the mother's life is in danger....at that point, I honestly wouldn't know the answer. I mean, it's a lose-lose situation. The mother dies, the child lives: the mother lives, the child dies: the mother dies, the child dies. Then again, our God is a miracle-working God so I can see the reasoning behind no abortions whatsoever.


With Evolution, as a teacher I can see the reasoning behind teaching this. It IS a theory and it would be biased to NOT teach about it. I myself am a Creationist, however.

I know some non-Christian couples who are actually very faithful to each other and have a great moral foundation...the only issue is that they do not have Jesus Christ as their foundation, so I see many flaws. And for homosexuals, I've heard the argument, "They ruin the institution of marriage!" No darlin', what ruins Marriage is infidelity. And while I don't agree with same-sex couples wanting to get married, I think a lot of these heterosexual couples can learn a thing or two from a group who gets discriminated, abused, mistreated and slandered on a daily basis, often from those who SHOULD be spreading Love. I'm also a former homosexual, so there are times I must play "devil's advocate" as I see the reasoning behind decisions.  
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 9:09 am
I do believe in total seperation of Church and state. It's one of the main reasons those Quakers, to come to a land where they could worship without prosecution.
I believe we can not let our faith cloud us and tell everyone what their doing is somehow wrong. Even if it is, our place is to forgive, not to lecture.
Topics like Gay marriage should hardly be a topic, untill the states try to force it in our Church (which they will, but that's for another topic)
Topics lake abortion though, I do not just see the church needing to be involved but everyone with a sense of morality, and a conscience. For the death of the innocent is on all of our hands.
Besides heavy hitting topics like that, I don't think the Church has any grounds to force the state to anything.  

ChuckBreezy

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ChuckBreezy

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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 9:14 am
The Seer of Heaven
Hmm...these are some tough topics for me, especially abortion. While I do agree with Aquatic_blue...hmm....then there's also a situation of when the mother's life is in danger....at that point, I honestly wouldn't know the answer. I mean, it's a lose-lose situation. The mother dies, the child lives: the mother lives, the child dies: the mother dies, the child dies. Then again, our God is a miracle-working God so I can see the reasoning behind no abortions whatsoever.


With Evolution, as a teacher I can see the reasoning behind teaching this. It IS a theory and it would be biased to NOT teach about it. I myself am a Creationist, however.

I know some non-Christian couples who are actually very faithful to each other and have a great moral foundation...the only issue is that they do not have Jesus Christ as their foundation, so I see many flaws. And for homosexuals, I've heard the argument, "They ruin the institution of marriage!" No darlin', what ruins Marriage is infidelity. And while I don't agree with same-sex couples wanting to get married, I think a lot of these heterosexual couples can learn a thing or two from a group who gets discriminated, abused, mistreated and slandered on a daily basis, often from those who SHOULD be spreading Love. I'm also a former homosexual, so there are times I must play "devil's advocate" as I see the reasoning behind decisions.

There are only 2 reason why I may ever accept Abortion as a viable medical procedure. The health of the woman during pregnancy to where it is one or the other or both, that are in danger. Or, rape victims. I struggle with this one, but I do see how living with the memory of the rape, that one may want to forget but cannot, and may try to take their own life because of this. Like I said, I struggle with the 2nd one, mostley because every life created on this planet are sacred, and we are stewards of those lives. But I can see how those 9 months could be absolute torture to the woman on a mental scale some of us may never understand. I hate too see my friends and neighbors struggle, so I'm crossed in this.  
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 7:40 pm
The Seer of Heaven
Hmm...these are some tough topics for me, especially abortion. While I do agree with Aquatic_blue...hmm....then there's also a situation of when the mother's life is in danger....at that point, I honestly wouldn't know the answer. I mean, it's a lose-lose situation. The mother dies, the child lives: the mother lives, the child dies: the mother dies, the child dies. Then again, our God is a miracle-working God so I can see the reasoning behind no abortions whatsoever.


If the mother's life is in danger (which is extremely rare) the term is not abortion because the doctors are attempting to save both lives  

ChibiHigh

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