Revisiting LL Breeding Requirements

[Ktns]

*Disclaimer: Please dont shoot the messenger D8 I just have seen this come up a couple times in thread so I thought... why not? These points do not mean that *I PERSONALLY* am vying for this, but these are concerns I have seen come up and have complied c: So... pls be nice <3

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There seems to be an issue, or a lot of miffed people at not only the number of breeding slots per year, but also how many attempts it takes to get to LL.

Last year the shop had under 20 viable slots (or maybe just at 20). Which means people are having to wait well over a year to be considered LL, and longer still to keep trying. This seems highly unreasonable for a lot of people.

Some concerns are the amount of slots and the type of slots, and how long is too long to wait.

This hasnt always been like this, which is why I think the 20 attempts was put into motion, but for over the past year and a half, things have slowed down considerably. This isnt counting the 4-5 months that staff is 'excused' from their normal quota to work on events (I know staff was excused I believe from September to January for Halloween/Xmas, even if some opened slots, and this isnt counting events that happened earlier in the year I dont remember off the top of my head).

Also, maybe instead of having people wait until 30-40 attempts, that for the sheer fact of how loyal those customers have been, they get a 'gimme'?

Im not sure what the solution is, if there is one, or if this is really a problem at all. But maybe people can post what they have been posting before in the main thread and this will be a nice compilation of concerns? Just throwing it out there c:  

[Nyx Queen of Darkness]

The solution is waiting.

By forcing colourists to do "gimmies' at certain point is stressing them out and limiting what they can do.

Sure it sucks to wait, I know because I've waited nearly two years for a breeding--35 tries. But the system isn't broken. There will always be more demand than supply.

Also, it should not matter how long one has been trying--but rather the amount of tries, because someone could mark their first try then never enter another breeding. I have a couple who tried once in February 11, it's April 12. Because I entered them once a year ago doesn't mean I should be LL.

LL works right how it is and staff DO take note of LL. Also, please note that the LL list is usually small because most couples win or flake before then or don't keep track.

Also, please note this is not meant to come across terse or whatever, but to stress my strong opinion that it's not broke. It sucks at times, but this is not one of the things that's broke.

And now I'm beginning to ramble 0_0

Also, can never hear the messenger thing without thinking of Damon Salvatore XD  

[That Artemis]

I don't really see anything wrong with how things are right now, but I had a thought on how it could possibly get a little better?

Already, colorists will every once in a while knock out a bunch of LL. What if there was a month where the only breedings that got done were LL, every year. It doesn't need to have any additional breedings being done, just take the 'every once in a while' and put it to a schedule.

Otherwise, I think part of the problem is that there are so many edited ponies now. Please, correct me if I'm wrong because I wasn't around before '09, but didn't the edited to unedited ratio used to be a lot more even/skewed more in the unedited side? It just seems to me that all the older soq you see around are unedited.

/two cents.

edit: I forgot to put in my point, lmao. Anyway, my point was that 3 years ago there were fewer people, less edits to contend with, possibly more breeding slots because of that, etc. (again, I may very well be wrong as I wasn't around too much before '09)  

[Zee Oddwyn]

What if there was a thread for Low Luck Colorist Choice thread, just like there's a Master Colorist Choice thread? It would give a place for serious couples to track their entries, and a place for colorists to draw from a ready pool. Considering the effort put in to entering all those breeding chances, I'd say it wouldn't be unjust to let these couples have their own thread apart from the other thread.  

[USS_Galactica]

I'd be happy if it was changed to 20 slots or trying consistantly for one year (IE entering every breeding that you can). Because if my couple qualified for every breeding, they would be low luck by now (they have been trying since April of last year). But because they are edited, not RPed, and not mini, the options are rather limited.

I'd also be happy if there were more edited only catagories in breedings.  

[LOLTERNATIVE]

Lunarflowermaiden

actually, in 2011 there was only 5 mini slots, 5 RP'd slots yet there was 11 edited and 19 open.

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I honestly believe that the only people who are entitled to complain about LL are those who have gotten to LL - especially those who waited 2 years and over 30 tries.

Those who are breeding a pair simply because of looks, who constantly say they forget to enter slots don't have a right to complain about how many LL slots there are lol - especially when they themselves aren't LL.

I had been entering ONE breeding couple for a year and they only just got their 19th try. Am I complaining? No. Because there could be NO breeding slots. Or I could be like some people and be on my 40th try.


There is nothing wrong with LL slots. Yes, breedings were slow last year. But this is only April and staff are working harder to get back on rotations. Slots have been very common this year. Only 2 breeding slots had unedited/minor slots so far and even then, moderate edits + were able to enter, the children would simply be minor edited. Everyone was still given the option to enter those slots. c:  

[Yumitoko II]

Zee Oddwyn

What if there was a thread for Low Luck Colorist Choice thread, just like there's a Master Colorist Choice thread? It would give a place for serious couples to track their entries, and a place for colorists to draw from a ready pool. Considering the effort put in to entering all those breeding chances, I'd say it wouldn't be unjust to let these couples have their own thread apart from the other thread.

I'm not going to complain about the system. If colourists are working harder to get back on rotations then there should be more than enough opportunities in one year to try for 20 or more slots hopefully.

But I do agree with Zee, a thread like this would help couples to get seen.
And there wouldn't be too many couples in there either so it wouldn't be too bad.

I think people would go sour at the thought of colourists giving gimmes because there will've been those before them who have won at 30-40 + and it won't really be fair. I think doing gimmes would add more onto their requirements and work load. But maybe the CCLL thread is worth a try?
This way it's all year round and the owners can post when they're active, etc etc.

A lot of people with edits usually won't want to shed them with minor edit slots. That's just how it goes.

Maybe soquili can try and focus on more unedited pets or minor edited pets in there next events. Because yes there were loads more unedited pets back in '07 when I joined and it seemed to help the flow of things. I do see that the minor and unedited pets still get priority in slots because there are tonnes of edited pets out there now. But the open category is always there. :3


Ramble ramble...sorry. sad  

[USS_Galactica]

LOLTERNATIVE

actually, in 2011 there was only 5 mini slots, 5 RP'd slots yet there was 11 edited and 19 open.
/quote]

That would be all well and good if I had started entering at the beginning of 2011, and not in April of 2011. That four month difference means five fewer attempts.

As for this year, of the nine breedings so far. I couldn't enter Neph's because Neph owns the mare my boy is paired up with, I couldn't enter the low luck breedings (so strikes two and three there), I couldn't enter the unedited/minor breedings (strike four. I might be able to enter the current one), and the mini mixer is of no use either. Oh and yes, I forgot one (shame on me).

 

[LOLTERNATIVE]

Lunarflowermaiden

That would be all well and good if I had started entering at the beginning of 2011, and not in April of 2011. That four month difference means five fewer attempts.

As for this year, of the nine breedings so far. I couldn't enter Neph's because Neph owns the mare my boy is paired up with, I couldn't enter the low luck breedings (so strikes two and three there), I couldn't enter the unedited/minor breedings (strike four. I might be able to enter the current one), and the mini mixer is of no use either. Oh and yes, I forgot one (shame on me).

Actually you COULD enter the minor/unedited one. There were a lot of people who entered couples that weren't minor/unedited and simply stated they didn't care about getting unedited/minor edited kids.

The Neph slot is not a fault of anyone's - it's the one downside of breeding with a staff member. It's a rule.

LL is also no one's fault. Are you saying that because you couldn't enter - even though you weren't LL - it was unfair? I'm sorry but I'm not going around saying it's unfair that there are mini slots when i don't have a mini couple. That would be ridiculous. No one has stopped me from getting a mini couple. No one's forbidden me.

There has not been a single slot this year that you were forbidden from entering, except those that had rules - LL, Neph and mini mixer.

Also what relevance does it have when you started entering? Should we compensate for that? Oh, sorry, you missed five slots cause you only started entering in April. here, have all the sympathy in the world.

No. It doesn't work that way. You earn breedings and LL status and special slots like everyone else. You want more slots? LM a couple. RP them. Actively look for mates. Don't do nothing and then complain about it.

EDIT: it's not like you are the only one who can't enter certain slots. there are A LOT.  

[Mameha Otome]

I see no issue with the LL being at 20. It might take some time, sure, but if you're dedicated to that couple you'll get there.

Seeing more LL slots, or even the CCLL thread would help those who've been trying and just have no luck at all with the dice in open slots.

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The only other issue I see with unedited vs edited pets is (and this happens heavily even in my own shop) a lot of people won't even look twice at most unedited pets people have. They want to find something with edits of any kind to improve the odds of greatly edited children.

I'm not saying all people are like this (I try to push for more unedited pets anywhere), but it's a common theme I see anymore :  

[.Tortured. .Pumpkin.]

I've had multiple couples (including one of my current) who have been LL for 30-40 tries. My very first breeding took forever, and even then they weren't picked. They got a breeding slot from Sirenz' RL gifted by a friend.
But honestly? I think the fact that we even HAVE low luck factored in is great. I don't care how many slots there are, or how long it takes, but the fact that they consider people who do care about that stuff and give extra slots just for those who have been patient and haven't switched out a couple every other breeding just to get a better shot at any babies possible is wonderful.
So before you complain about it being "too hard" to get to LL status (and it is supposed to be hard), consider shops that don't have that option at all. I know Soq is huge, but the staff tries awfully hard to run a smooth ship, so don't make it even more difficult than it is.  

[Syaoran-Puu]

I personally don't have too much of an issue with the current system... some couples do end up being 'uber-LL' (35-40++) and I myself have found myself in this catagory more than once..... but generally the Colourists seem to take pity on couples who end up with this many breeding attempts. In fact, most of my raffle pairs make it to LL and only one has ever been rolled in a breeding slot... the others have ended up being taken pity on in one form or another.

While I don't have an issue with waiting I would love to see more slots open, but since new colourists are being hired slowly but surely I am sure this will happen soon. We all have to remember that colourists must find a balance..... if they did all breedings people would complain there are no customs, if they did no freebies or raffled people would again complain.... so yeah.... THANK YOU COLOURISTS for what you do smile I know you work super hard for us, and I for one love seeing the creations that come out of your brains, even if they don't belong to me. *nodnod*

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@Lyda: I think this would become too hard to monitor... and for like RP couple slots or whatever it may be considered unfair; since they aren't qualified doesn't mean they couldn't work towards being qualified if they wanted to.... (or maybe that would fall under your 'they are unwilling to get unedited pets' sort of thing also... dunno). But yeah, I think colourists already have so many rules and things to look out for that adding this would simply make things too complicated.  

[slimycrow]

I don't have any pairs that are Low Luck, but I find myself tallying up to see how many tries they've had and not getting close often. I think that at a the LOWEST low luck could be moved to 15-17 but I think 20 is very reasonable. There are lots of shops that do not have LL at all. I also thought it was really sweet that the colorists did LL only breedings in February, and would not be opposed to seeing that even more than once a year.

As for the number of editted/uneditted slots there are think of it from the colorist's perspective. Calculate the average cost for two editted Soq in raffles, auctions, or customs. Then look at the cost for breedings. For the breeding cost, the colorists make 2-3 Editted Soq, plus color two extra stages for it. Plus, they are in constraints of your couple which limits their likes/dislikes/creativity to that pair. Now personally, as a colorist, I LOVE breedings, but breedings with fully clothed pets that have to have fully clothed, in similar outfits, babies, can be draining, and for LITTLE pay comparitively. And, there is of course the time commitment of knowing for every 1 slot you open you are making 2-3 editted Soq (sometimes heavy edits)