Revisiting LL Breeding Requirements

[Celeanor]

-[The Spoof]-

I don't really see anything wrong with how things are right now, but I had a thought on how it could possibly get a little better?

Already, colorists will every once in a while knock out a bunch of LL. What if there was a month where the only breedings that got done were LL, every year. It doesn't need to have any additional breedings being done, just take the 'every once in a while' and put it to a schedule.

Otherwise, I think part of the problem is that there are so many edited ponies now. Please, correct me if I'm wrong because I wasn't around before '09, but didn't the edited to unedited ratio used to be a lot more even/skewed more in the unedited side? It just seems to me that all the older soq you see around are unedited.

/two cents.

edit: I forgot to put in my point, lmao. Anyway, my point was that 3 years ago there were fewer people, less edits to contend with, possibly more breeding slots because of that, etc. (again, I may very well be wrong as I wasn't around too much before '09)

Highlighting this for a yes ma'am, you would be correct. The number of edited ponies in this shop now is astounding to me, but is honestly part of the shops charm. I remember when the wings on Wind soquili was the OMFGGG! thing, and I was super happy it came out. Completely customizable ponies that you can do anything imaginable to? Who wouldn't like that~! 8D

I would also hazard a guess that this has something to do with it, if only because doing edits for multiple stages can take upwards of several hours per pony for some people. If you have someone opening six slots ( lets say 2 unedited/moderate, 2 mini, 1 LL and 1 open) you have, at a minimum, 12 babies coming out of that, with three stages. So 36 individual images that all need to be done in a month, unless the colorist wants a work pileup as the next month's quota needs to be met. Some may be easy, some may not be easy at all, some couples may give a colorist a headache trying to rationalize and make pretty offspring from. Then there is the rolling for traits and genders and what-have-you. I'd honestly say (in my personal opinion) breedings are a bigger drain on a colorist then say... events and customs.... where they are given a deadline and either a general (or sometimes very specific) idea to work with.

That said, I think in terms of business management, this system isn't meeting demand. Now, that isn't totally a bad thing, but it is lagging behind demand enough that it is causing rumbling. I also think that the new hires should help out a LOT with that if they are assigned to breedings and not snatched up for events right away. So, truthfully, I'd advocate sitting and waiting for everyone. This shop has a pretty good record for eventually coming through (see: colorists taking pity on folks) and I think any attempts to further clog and micromanage the situation will only make it worse.

The problem is not enough hands meeting the coloring demands of a large customer base, and any attempt to correct the problem besides getting more people on board just narrows the available slots to LL only, which in turn creates more LL as those who are not are forced to keep trying in massive Open lists until they qualify for the better odds of a LL list. (Except then you also have a bunch of other people doing the same thing.) That is what I have pulled from the suggestions so far, "how can we improve the odds from the limited breeding slots to skew them more towards Low Luck" and I just don't think that would help the deeper situation much? (Notable exception of a Low Luck Master List, which I think is an excellent idea so long as it gets just as much love as the MCCL.)

Anyway, those are my thoughts. Nothing other folks haven't mentioned/hinted at. xD! <3

(Also, for the folks saying other people don't have the 'right' to comment because they don't have couples on LL? Incorrect. Everyone has the right to comment and not having a LL pair at this point does not invalidate our opinion. )  

[Ktns]

Holy crap look at all the people O:

Thank you SO much for your input guys c: And for keeping this a nice place to chat about this, I know some people are very passionate about issues in Soq but this is really nice to see all these POVs on this issue in one place <3 Thanks again for those taking time to post c:  

[JetAlmeara]

I think the LL system works just fine - yes it sucks to wait, I waited for two years with my current couple and they hit 40, 41 tries before Mal took pity on their horrible luck, but I don't see a way that it can be improved and I believe the new hires will help quite a bit once they enter rotations and such.

I do like the idea of a LL master CC list, if only because I know some colorists like to pick LL couples and it would probably save them a little bit of time then slogging through the huge CC list to try and find them all and pick one they like the looks of.  

[Ktns]

Since I forgot to add it in before, when I get the chance a little later Ill be adding the unedited vs edits concern to first post, as well as the LL MCCL?  

[Nyx Queen of Darkness]

Ultimately edit vs. Unedit slots isn't something that I personally feel should be revisited.

Dictating to colourists that they need to have edited only slots or this or that slots isn't going to help them--it's just going to sap their creativity. The other problem I see wit this is that unedit/minor edits slots people have the choice to put their edited pair in, whereas unedits have no option to be put in edit slots. And honestly, there's really not THAT many unedited slots.

And this may sound bias, but I enjoy minor edited/edited slots because it makes people focus on pairs that are often on the backburner. It also allows a colourist to make their quota, but still colour something that like/want to colour. Plus, for something that's only the combining of templates and doesn't take as much time to do, it is nicer not to have to wait as long. It is the "perk" for unedited pairs who are often overlooked.

About the LLCL. I think it's a good idea. I've been keeping an LL list for MONTHS (I'm behind a month because I've been having a difficult time) and showing it to absolutely anyone that was wiling to see it to raise awareness to LL--by numbers and names only since it's a spreadsheet (estimated numbers because I can only go by people who say when they're LL). I still don't think the number should be lowered, but more visibility (even if it's not extra chances) for LL couples is nice.

I've previously asked about making and updating a LL list. I believe I was told that I could keep it up in the plot area. I'll have to inquire again though because that was right before I pretty much took a break from an overstressed month.

Last I check though, which was about a month ago--we went from an overinflated 27 or 28 to about 22 LL couples.  

[Syaoran-Puu]

As in a previous discussion I don't believe we should dictate WHAT slots are up for grabs, or HOW a colourist should do their job. Would I like to see more RP slots? Sure! Am I going to b***h and moan about it? No. If a slot comes up for that catagory then great! Same with edited/unedited slots.

There are LOTs of unedited pets coming out these days, the CYO event at Christmas 2010 and 2011 are perfect examples.... they have also added to the pressure of breedings, since lots and lots of newbies (and I love that they got them) recieved their first soquili in these events. They then started entering them in Jan/Feb breedings (depending on age obviously) so there was a sudden flood of new entries but a very limited number of slots (for the whole year not just for a few months). Without more people being hired, or more focus being placed on breedings or customs I really don't see a solution.... and by 'fixing' one problem you will only end up creating more.... I see the words 'vicious circle' flashing in neon above me right now.

The fact is that soquili will NEVER manage to reach the demand of the store. It is just far too popular, and I can't see that changing any time soon.

-----------------------------

MCLLCL (monthly colourist low luck choice list):: While I can see the appeal of this part of me thinks it will just make things messy.... and some of those on it may feel as if they deserve it more than someone on the normal MCCL simply because they are LL. I dunno. Part of me does however like the idea that there is a place where all the LL couples are listed.....

-----------------------------

Sorry, I am rambling now XD time to sleep. xx  

[Phoenix_soarys]

I Do like the Idea of a MCLL...

but at the same time... I can see where it might be a problem.

I have One pair of soquili that are LL (i think... 33 tries)
and...
If i am unlucky... and the dice hate me again... I will have ANOTHER LL couple.

however... i should point out.... We already have an CC list for couples? am i correct? I like the idea of 20 as a number for LL... because there are (and will be) some breeding that i cannot enter... either due to requirements, or due to a mishap on my own time.

I do wish there were more first time slots though... for those that have NEVER had a breeding EVER...  

[Ktns]

Phoenix_soarys

Just to touch on the subject of 'firsts'. I support 'first' events. I mean hell Ive been in the shop over 3 years and I have *NEVER* won an event/flaffle/raffle.

Sadly tho, Ive brought this up before and its not ever gone anywhere.  

[CheshireKttty]

Alright, so I realize I'm a little late to the party here but I've been at Sakura Con for a few days and been out of the loop.

First of all, I feel that there isn't anything wrong with the LL as it is. I've had a pair win on their first try (seriously) and I've also waited 35 tries. I have the option to rp them and get them qualified, I have the option to enter into minor breedings, I have the option to enter slots. If I chose to not meet the requirements or want more edits, that is MY choice and no fault of the shops. Complaining about it is just silly in my opinion.

As far as a LLCC list I think that in theory it is a nice idea, however, I don't think that it's necessary. There is already a LL option on the form in the MCCL. Another list means that someone has to keep track of that too and people have to keep their posts updated, really it's just a pain and more work for everyone involved.

Really I'm just glad to see that the colorists are doing a few more breedings and I'm happy to wait if I have to, it just makes it that much more exciting when I finally win. Edited or unedited I love my ponies and colorists don't need further restrictions on their slots.  

[Tygress Dream]

I don't see a problem with LL as it is currently done. We've all had times where we havn't been able to enter either because of the type of slots being offereed, or maybe we're just away when slots are opened. I may need to reread things a bit but I'm not seeing the problem.

I've seen other shops offer special breeding slots where the children arrive as adults, just one stage to worry about. I'm wondering if this would be something to be considered here? I know most of us love having baskets and seeing the foals grow up, but it could be an option for a busy colorist who wants to get some breeding slots in but doesn't feel they have the time to devote to a fully growing breeding.  

[StarieMichie]

I don't mind colorists doing unedited/minor slots more frequent than unedited slots. My guess is that unedited ponies take less time to color, so they are able to roll more couples.

That said, my minor edit couple is on try 19 since January '11, and my heavy edit couple is on try 14 since April '11. Would I like to see more breeding slots or all kinds? Yes, of course. I think we all would. But I wouldn't want to see the low luck amount changed all the way down to 10. The LL list would be XBOXHUEG. I think most people have couples over 10 tries. I could see 15, since that would still be about a year of trying dependent on the slots offered, but I'm not sure I like that either.

The point of a LL slot is to boost your odds of getting rolled since it's a smaller list. If we lower the requirements to get on, we'll just run into more couples becoming "super LL" because they'll have more competition in each LL slot. Also colorists have been good about doing a LL only breeding every couple of months or when the list gets long.  

[Laroawan]

My last couple got to 41 attempts before they were finally CCed (never got rolled). However, I don't think the system we have is flawed. There is simply not enough colorists at this time to fill the demand. That particular fact will eventually be remedied through the hiring event. I think you just have to accept the fact that it is going to take a while.  

[ATh e a r t]

There will never be enough slots to satisfy needs/wants of the customers here... That's something that won't come even if the shop had enough colorist. Why? Because there will always be someone out there that is unsatisfied with what the shop is doing.

As for the recent slots that are unedited or minorly edited, I believe the shop is trying to steer away from the heavily edited ponies. This will help the shop with giving colorists less to do per-pony and hopefully able to meet more demands.

I'm also unsure what's wrong with the LL system... "Low luck" is what 20 tries are, whether the breedings are there are not. It kind of reminds me of how people are bringing up the fact that there are not a lot of custom slots. There are only so many colorists with their own lives that they have to do things. Some colorists are slower than others. Some colorists have more time to devote to Soquili than others. Again, IDK how anything can be forcefully changed in that sense.

As for the Low Luck Colorist choice thing... I've honestly seen a lot of LL couples being CC'd more so than other couples. I've also seen more LL slots when the LL list is long.

With everything said, I don't think anything will change. The staff are trying to be more constant, but it doesn't help that people just plain have lives and are taken away from it. Hopefully the shop will lessen with the heavy/extreme edited ponies so it would be easier/faster for colorists. It'll probably result in more breedings then :3

/two cents.  

[Graceangel]

I see a lot fo people saying how LL is fine how it is, but... does anyone still remember when LL was just what... 12 slots? I remember that was how I got my first breeding here. :3 We had LL, but it wasn't 20 failed tries back then. However, back then, it was that they all had to be consistent. if you missed a month or two, it'd get messed up. they changed it to 20 tries, but the restrictions on the rigorous of not missing one or two here and there was taken away.

I think it just comes down to the fact of a much higher population of people owning soqs and them breeding versus people available to breed them. We have roughly same number of staff offering nearly same amount of slots as a few years ago; but now we have like.. probably 200% more people who are also vying for all those same slots, so it FEELS like it's much more hard to get. probably is just one of those side effects of a big popular shop.

edit: now having read what everyone has posted about in here. Seems to me a lot of issue is just with supply/availability/demand. They have hired on some new people recently, so hopefully that will help. When the shop has a lot of their staff unavailable for new work. I'm sure that affects things a great deal.