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 Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:10 pm
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Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:11 pm
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Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:17 pm
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Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:38 am
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You shouldn't always trust what you hear about Jesus through the entertainment industry or the news.
Find out by reading the Scriptures yourself.
Aquatic_blue is quite right about Jesus.
We know for certain that Peter was married because he had a mother-in-law (Matthew 8:14). The Apostle Paul, who was not married, asked the Corinthians whether he also did not have the right to take a believing wife (1 Corinthians 9:5), as did “the other apostles and the Lord's brothers and Cephas [Peter].” From this, we can assume that Peter was not the only one to have a wife.
About their sex life we do however know nothing. The Bible briefly touches upon sex in marriage:
1 Corinthians 7:3-5
Let the husband render to his wife the affection due her, and likewise also the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that d Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.
Scripture never says what a husband and wife are or are not allowed to do sexually.
Yes. Having gay sex is wrong.
Leviticus 18:22
You shall not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
With this being said that does not mean that God hates you and has turned his back on you now. You can come to him as you are. We have all sinned and fallen short to the glory of God - everyone is deserving of Hell. One sin is not better then the other. Being gay is not worse then being a liar, or an adulterer, a prostitute, self righteousness etc. It is not an unforgivable sin, only one thing is. We have a God that loves us and forgives us, if we accept the forgiveness which is in Jesus Christ. Let's not think we are any better than anyone, and elevate ourselves. Our righteousness is in Jesus, in our self we are not worthy. There are people who go to church while cheating on their wives to later marry the woman they cheated with, and they believe they are better off then gays, that gays are more hell deserving then them. It is a dangerous self delusion. Let us not think ourselves better then we are that we may continue in sin, but let us repent our sins.
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Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:51 pm
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Let me know if this testimony is of any help to you. This is slightly unrelated to the topic of the discussion, but gay people can be Christians, too! smile God accepts anyone and everyone who comes to Him. He's more merciful than you may realize, and that's what's so awesome about God.
Here's jb-pichu's testimony (I hope he doesn't get mad at me for showing his stuff lol) from this link.
jb-pichu:
Well, I'm brand new to this forum but here's my testimony! Just as a note, if you feel uncomfortable reading certain things, you might want to skip over labeled parts of my testimony. I'm putting it all out here. Also, I'm not sure the denominational background of people, but just so you know - I have no denomination that I cling to anymore; so, anything on this testimony that disagrees with any denominational doctrine, please do not try to debate with me - I do not debate on doctrines.
----
I was born in Valdosta, GA, in 1989 and my early life was pretty normal, actually. My dad was stationed at Moody AFB, went to Kunsan for training, came back and we were then stationed at Wright Pat for his last year in the Air force. I was home schooled for Kindergarten, and after that one year in Ohio we moved down to Alabama to live near my grandparents.
Things really started taking a turn down hill by the time we had to move into my grandparents' home after losing the house. We weren't poor, though. Any time I wanted to spend time with dad playing a video game or something, he would always say, "Maybe later, Joshua." It got to a point where he was constantly on the computer. By the time I was ten years old, I could my Mom and Dad didn't really talk a lot, and Mom came to me one night and asked me if I would like to move to Okinawa, Japan. I told her, "Sure! Is Dad coming with us?" She told me, "No, he's not." I then asked her, "Oh...are you two thinking about getting a divorce?" She said, "Well yeah, I thought we would!" My response was, "Oh, well tell Dad that I love him!" No emotions.
Now, normally a biblical reason for a divorce is infidelity or abuse, both of which my mom does NOT take. Plus even if a man tried to abuse her, HE would end up being the one on the ground. smile
Anyway, I'll just say their reason is a very UNIQUE one. That's all I'm saying on that.
We moved to Okinawa, Japan in November of 1999 and this beautiful place became our home. I attended DODEA schools from 5th grade, until I graduated high school in June of 2007.
Throughout my school life, I faced a lot of bullying. When I was in middle school, I was often called many words that I won't repost here simply because some may not be comfortable reading them. But, y'all probably get the picture; they were derogatory words for homosexual. I've always been a soft-hearted individual with a very flamboyant nature and a very artsy mind that loves music, art, designs, colors, etc. I'm also a philosopher. My mind is constantly thinking about certain beliefs, and whether or not the belief is accurate or true.
See, I also started becoming attracted to guys and so I began thinking I was gay. With the people calling me gay, that didn't help me! When I got into high school, I seriously believed I was!
[Next part includes some things that may not be comfortable to read]
When I was thirteen, I started looking at pornographic images....of men. By the time I was fifteen, I was webcamming with other guys, often doing strip teases. By the time I was sixteen, I labeled myself as being a homosexual. It was what I honestly thought I was!
[Section done]
By the time I was seventeen, I had already been in a few relationships, even gotten kissed, and almost had sex with another guy. Fortunately, I've always been a chicken!
When I turned eighteen, the end of my senior year, I had finally reached a certain point. See, there's a scripture I always ended up reading (mom was big into studying prophecy):
"Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire." (Rev 20:15; NIV)
Deep down, I knew that my name was not in the Lamb's Book of Life - that if I were to stand before Yeshua HaMashiyach (Jesus Christ), I would be sent into destruction. So, deep down there was a conviction.
One night, I fell to my knees in my bedroom and cried out, "Lord! I need help! Please help me!"
It is written, "We know that God doesn't listen to sinners, but he is ready to hear those who worship him and do his will." (John 9:31; NLT)
I certainly fit the bill of being a sinner! But, I knew that God looks at the heart of a person (1 Sam 16:7).
Within only a few months, that prayer was answered, along with the ones my Mom had been praying.
I was in a Yahoo chat room when suddenly I got an IM from somebody! They asked me, "Is this Joshua ?" I said, "...Yes....who are you?" They then told me, "I am an angel of the Lord, and He has sent me. . ." Definitely straightforward, if I say so myself! Now granted, I didn't believe them one bit at first, but they told me that their job was not to have me believe who THEY are, but for me to believe in the One True God as my Savior and Lord.
As I said before, I'm the philosopher type. I ask questions...MANY OF THEM. I even asked them, "How do I know you're not a demon trying to lead me away??" He chuckled, and simply replied with, "Now Joshua, if I were a demon would I be leading you TO Christ, or away from him?" They made a good point!
So time went on and I gradually noticed the Lord making changes in my life. My language started changing, and other stuff too! Some say you have to have this SUDDEN change to be a Christian....what a bunch of bull!
Though, I did end up going to a church and I made a public confession. I was standing at the altar, when suddenly this wind blew through me. As soon as this wind blew through me I heard God say to my spirit, "My child, you are forgiven!"
For anyone who's grown up in pentecostal/charismatic circles, this next part isn't anything new.
My pastor came back and began teaching on the Holy Spirit. Well, being the brand new Christian, uncorrupted by man's teachings, I simply wanted all that God had for me. I wanted all of His promises. Next thing I know, I could feel the Spirit of God just come over me like fire and out of my mouth came the most absolutely beautiful language I had ever heard. And from that point on, it seems I began growing at a very fast rate.
Shortly after this, in about February of 2008, I remember leaning at my bed and simply saying, "Lord, I'll do whatever you want me to do!" Now, you have to be careful about that! God WILL have us do WHATEVER! razz
I simply heard one word from the Holy Spirit. He said, "Prophet." My response? "Awesome!...what is that?" I sensed that the Lord chuckled a bit at my response. People claim God is so serious...child, please!! Jesus can be quite crazy at times! And quite hilarious! smile I mean, just look at the Platypus!
Anyways, so from that point on I began learning much about what it was that the prophets did...I've heard various people tell me that prophets are no longer around, and that all gifts have ceased, that we only have the Bible and that any supposed manifestation is of the devil. Here's my problem with those beliefs - they are absolutely false and erroneous. God does not change, has not changed, and never will change. These same gifts are being handed out today. How do I know? I look at the fruit of the person. If it's good, it can't be of satan. Plain and simple.
It wasn't until early 2011 when this gift began really manifesting; since that point, I've seen God say some very amazing things (or heard, rather?). The messages God has given to people have always resulted in them glorifying HIM and they end up getting past whatever stumbling block was before them.
Ultimately, no matter what people try to tell me is Truth, I know that Truth is found if one seeks it out, sometimes in very unconventional places. And all I know is that our God IS God, and that He sent his son into this world to redeem us from our sins. What I do know is that Jesus Christ is God in flesh. All else is up for verification.
Do I still struggle with homosexuality? Of course. What most fail to realize is that this specific struggle CAN'T be overcome with programs, 10 steps, etc. All that stuff is quite legalistic, actually, and if we focus on our sins that we're trying to overcome, we'll actually sin more. We need to keep our focus on Jesus Christ alone. He IS our Righteousness, He IS our holiness, and He IS our salvation (1 Cor 1:30).
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Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:13 pm
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:55 am
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Garland-Green With this being said that does not mean that God hates you and has turned his back on you now. You can come to him as you are. We have all sinned and fallen short to the glory of God - everyone is deserving of Hell. One sin is not better then the other. Being gay is not worse then being a liar, or an adulterer, a prostitute, self righteousness etc. It is not an unforgivable sin, only one thing is. We have a God that loves us and forgives us, if we accept the forgiveness which is in Jesus Christ. Let's not think we are any better than anyone, and elevate ourselves. Our righteousness is in Jesus, in our self we are not worthy. There are people who go to church while cheating on their wives to later marry the woman they cheated with, and they believe they are better off then gays, that gays are more hell deserving then them. It is a dangerous self delusion. Let us not think ourselves better then we are that we may continue in sin, but let us repent our sins.
so that would mean that even a gay christian would enter heaven? |
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:26 am
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Ignacio Egnatius Garland-Green With this being said that does not mean that God hates you and has turned his back on you now. You can come to him as you are. We have all sinned and fallen short to the glory of God - everyone is deserving of Hell. One sin is not better then the other. Being gay is not worse then being a liar, or an adulterer, a prostitute, self righteousness etc. It is not an unforgivable sin, only one thing is. We have a God that loves us and forgives us, if we accept the forgiveness which is in Jesus Christ. Let's not think we are any better than anyone, and elevate ourselves. Our righteousness is in Jesus, in our self we are not worthy. There are people who go to church while cheating on their wives to later marry the woman they cheated with, and they believe they are better off then gays, that gays are more hell deserving then them. It is a dangerous self delusion. Let us not think ourselves better then we are that we may continue in sin, but let us repent our sins.
Revelation 21:8
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
There is some dispute as to who Paul is addressing, and if there has been a mistranslated word.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (NIV).
While the scripture may sound clear, the debate actually surrounds the use of the Greek word that this particular version of the Bible translates as "homosexual offenders." The term is "arsenokoite." Some say that it is a reference to male prostitutes rather than to two committed homosexuals. Yet, others argue that Paul, who wrote the passage, would not have repeated "male prostitutes" twice. Even others argue that the two root words in arsenokoite are the same terms used to prohibit any premarital or extramarital sexual relations, so they may not refer to homosexual relations alone.
1 Corinthians 6:11 - "And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." (NIV) |
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:49 am
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Garland-Green Ignacio Egnatius Garland-Green With this being said that does not mean that God hates you and has turned his back on you now. You can come to him as you are. We have all sinned and fallen short to the glory of God - everyone is deserving of Hell. One sin is not better then the other. Being gay is not worse then being a liar, or an adulterer, a prostitute, self righteousness etc. It is not an unforgivable sin, only one thing is. We have a God that loves us and forgives us, if we accept the forgiveness which is in Jesus Christ. Let's not think we are any better than anyone, and elevate ourselves. Our righteousness is in Jesus, in our self we are not worthy. There are people who go to church while cheating on their wives to later marry the woman they cheated with, and they believe they are better off then gays, that gays are more hell deserving then them. It is a dangerous self delusion. Let us not think ourselves better then we are that we may continue in sin, but let us repent our sins. I did not say that. However it is a terrible thing when we try to pluck someones splinter out of their eye not seeing the beam in our own. That was what I was trying to say. That the whole debate has turned into a hate thing. 'God hates '**gs' posters and pickets may be counterproductive. Shunning sinners because of their sin is not what Jesus did. But to answer your question. Only a regenerated, born again believer enters into heaven. If a Christian is not born again then he is not really a Christian. I would lean towards believing it is a sin (as in those who are sexually immoral will not enter the Kingdom of God), but that doesn't mean there is not forgiveness if there is repentance. Revelation 21:8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." There is some dispute as to who Paul is addressing, and if there has been a mistranslated word. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (NIV). While the scripture may sound clear, the debate actually surrounds the use of the Greek word that this particular version of the Bible translates as "homosexual offenders." The term is "arsenokoite." Some say that it is a reference to male prostitutes rather than to two committed homosexuals. Yet, others argue that Paul, who wrote the passage, would not have repeated "male prostitutes" twice. Even others argue that the two root words in arsenokoite are the same terms used to prohibit any premarital or extramarital sexual relations, so they may not refer to homosexual relations alone. 1 Corinthians 6:11 - "And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." (NIV)
so it is wrong to be gay. but a gay could enter heaven if they repent of their sins and stop practicing those gay acts... correct?
but i still wonder..there is a celebrity here in my country who believes in God but he is gay and he will not change because he said that that's what he feels. that's what he is and that gay rights should be pursued. he also prayed to God and also kind to fellowmen. so will he enter heaven? it seems like he won't go away with his wicked ways of being gay because as what he said, that's what he is..
and also.. have you read about this kinser scale?
it said that we are born bisexuals and that the introduction of the bible changes human perception.
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:03 am
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Ignacio Egnatius Garland-Green Ignacio Egnatius Garland-Green With this being said that does not mean that God hates you and has turned his back on you now. You can come to him as you are. We have all sinned and fallen short to the glory of God - everyone is deserving of Hell. One sin is not better then the other. Being gay is not worse then being a liar, or an adulterer, a prostitute, self righteousness etc. It is not an unforgivable sin, only one thing is. We have a God that loves us and forgives us, if we accept the forgiveness which is in Jesus Christ. Let's not think we are any better than anyone, and elevate ourselves. Our righteousness is in Jesus, in our self we are not worthy. There are people who go to church while cheating on their wives to later marry the woman they cheated with, and they believe they are better off then gays, that gays are more hell deserving then them. It is a dangerous self delusion. Let us not think ourselves better then we are that we may continue in sin, but let us repent our sins. I did not say that. However it is a terrible thing when we try to pluck someones splinter out of their eye not seeing the beam in our own. That was what I was trying to say. That the whole debate has turned into a hate thing. 'God hates '**gs' posters and pickets may be counterproductive. Shunning sinners because of their sin is not what Jesus did. But to answer your question. Only a regenerated, born again believer enters into heaven. If a Christian is not born again then he is not really a Christian. I would lean towards believing it is a sin (as in those who are sexually immoral will not enter the Kingdom of God), but that doesn't mean there is not forgiveness if there is repentance. Revelation 21:8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." There is some dispute as to who Paul is addressing, and if there has been a mistranslated word. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (NIV). While the scripture may sound clear, the debate actually surrounds the use of the Greek word that this particular version of the Bible translates as "homosexual offenders." The term is "arsenokoite." Some say that it is a reference to male prostitutes rather than to two committed homosexuals. Yet, others argue that Paul, who wrote the passage, would not have repeated "male prostitutes" twice. Even others argue that the two root words in arsenokoite are the same terms used to prohibit any premarital or extramarital sexual relations, so they may not refer to homosexual relations alone. 1 Corinthians 6:11 - "And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." (NIV)
but i still wonder..there is a celebrity here in my country who believes in God but he is gay and he will not change because he said that that's what he feels. that's what he is and that gay rights should be pursued. he also prayed to God and also kind to fellowmen. so will he enter heaven? it seems like he won't go away with his wicked ways of being gay because as what he said, that's what he is..
and also.. have you read about this kinser scale?
it said that we are born bisexuals and that the introduction of the bible changes human perception.
I am generally very weary of Kinsey. The little I know of him I don't like. XD
If this was true there is still the matter of original sin to consider, and that the human race might not be evolving towards something better, but degenerating.
So there are factors that may not be considered which would have a great impact on studies like this.
Repentance is a huge thing. Without repentance there is no forgiveness. Without forgiveness we are all dead in our sins. It is tricky. It is not for me to sort out people and make any decisions as to who is going or not. Only God really knows. He is the one who saves people. He is the one who changes peoples lives. I don't want to say that that celebrity will go to hell because I don't know what will happen in his life. He might end up having a change of heart. Who knows. |
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:33 am
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Garland-Green Ignacio Egnatius Garland-Green Ignacio Egnatius Garland-Green With this being said that does not mean that God hates you and has turned his back on you now. You can come to him as you are. We have all sinned and fallen short to the glory of God - everyone is deserving of Hell. One sin is not better then the other. Being gay is not worse then being a liar, or an adulterer, a prostitute, self righteousness etc. It is not an unforgivable sin, only one thing is. We have a God that loves us and forgives us, if we accept the forgiveness which is in Jesus Christ. Let's not think we are any better than anyone, and elevate ourselves. Our righteousness is in Jesus, in our self we are not worthy. There are people who go to church while cheating on their wives to later marry the woman they cheated with, and they believe they are better off then gays, that gays are more hell deserving then them. It is a dangerous self delusion. Let us not think ourselves better then we are that we may continue in sin, but let us repent our sins. I did not say that. However it is a terrible thing when we try to pluck someones splinter out of their eye not seeing the beam in our own. That was what I was trying to say. That the whole debate has turned into a hate thing. 'God hates '**gs' posters and pickets may be counterproductive. Shunning sinners because of their sin is not what Jesus did. But to answer your question. Only a regenerated, born again believer enters into heaven. If a Christian is not born again then he is not really a Christian. I would lean towards believing it is a sin (as in those who are sexually immoral will not enter the Kingdom of God), but that doesn't mean there is not forgiveness if there is repentance. Revelation 21:8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." There is some dispute as to who Paul is addressing, and if there has been a mistranslated word. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (NIV). While the scripture may sound clear, the debate actually surrounds the use of the Greek word that this particular version of the Bible translates as "homosexual offenders." The term is "arsenokoite." Some say that it is a reference to male prostitutes rather than to two committed homosexuals. Yet, others argue that Paul, who wrote the passage, would not have repeated "male prostitutes" twice. Even others argue that the two root words in arsenokoite are the same terms used to prohibit any premarital or extramarital sexual relations, so they may not refer to homosexual relations alone. 1 Corinthians 6:11 - "And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." (NIV)
but i still wonder..there is a celebrity here in my country who believes in God but he is gay and he will not change because he said that that's what he feels. that's what he is and that gay rights should be pursued. he also prayed to God and also kind to fellowmen. so will he enter heaven? it seems like he won't go away with his wicked ways of being gay because as what he said, that's what he is..
and also.. have you read about this kinser scale?
it said that we are born bisexuals and that the introduction of the bible changes human perception.
I am generally very weary of Kinsey. The little I know of him I don't like. XD If this was true there is still the matter of original sin to consider, and that the human race might not be evolving towards something better, but degenerating. So there are factors that may not be considered which would have a great impact on studies like this. Repentance is a huge thing. Without repentance there is no forgiveness. Without forgiveness we are all dead in our sins. It is tricky. It is not for me to sort out people and make any decisions as to who is going or not. Only God really knows. He is the one who saves people. He is the one who changes peoples lives. I don't want to say that that celebrity will go to hell because I don't know what will happen in his life. He might end up having a change of heart. Who knows.
i can't somewhat understand your post regarding to kinsey.. so you're saying you're not quiet sure if it is true or not?
aw. true. sorry. now i think i get it... we don't have to be bothered whether this celebrity or that is the good role model because as Christians, the one that we should get inspiration from or look up is Jesus Christ! correct? XDD
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:03 am
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Ignacio Egnatius Garland-Green Ignacio Egnatius Garland-Green Ignacio Egnatius Garland-Green With this being said that does not mean that God hates you and has turned his back on you now. You can come to him as you are. We have all sinned and fallen short to the glory of God - everyone is deserving of Hell. One sin is not better then the other. Being gay is not worse then being a liar, or an adulterer, a prostitute, self righteousness etc. It is not an unforgivable sin, only one thing is. We have a God that loves us and forgives us, if we accept the forgiveness which is in Jesus Christ. Let's not think we are any better than anyone, and elevate ourselves. Our righteousness is in Jesus, in our self we are not worthy. There are people who go to church while cheating on their wives to later marry the woman they cheated with, and they believe they are better off then gays, that gays are more hell deserving then them. It is a dangerous self delusion. Let us not think ourselves better then we are that we may continue in sin, but let us repent our sins. I did not say that. However it is a terrible thing when we try to pluck someones splinter out of their eye not seeing the beam in our own. That was what I was trying to say. That the whole debate has turned into a hate thing. 'God hates '**gs' posters and pickets may be counterproductive. Shunning sinners because of their sin is not what Jesus did. But to answer your question. Only a regenerated, born again believer enters into heaven. If a Christian is not born again then he is not really a Christian. I would lean towards believing it is a sin (as in those who are sexually immoral will not enter the Kingdom of God), but that doesn't mean there is not forgiveness if there is repentance. Revelation 21:8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." There is some dispute as to who Paul is addressing, and if there has been a mistranslated word. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (NIV). While the scripture may sound clear, the debate actually surrounds the use of the Greek word that this particular version of the Bible translates as "homosexual offenders." The term is "arsenokoite." Some say that it is a reference to male prostitutes rather than to two committed homosexuals. Yet, others argue that Paul, who wrote the passage, would not have repeated "male prostitutes" twice. Even others argue that the two root words in arsenokoite are the same terms used to prohibit any premarital or extramarital sexual relations, so they may not refer to homosexual relations alone. 1 Corinthians 6:11 - "And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." (NIV)
but i still wonder..there is a celebrity here in my country who believes in God but he is gay and he will not change because he said that that's what he feels. that's what he is and that gay rights should be pursued. he also prayed to God and also kind to fellowmen. so will he enter heaven? it seems like he won't go away with his wicked ways of being gay because as what he said, that's what he is..
and also.. have you read about this kinser scale?
it said that we are born bisexuals and that the introduction of the bible changes human perception.
I am generally very weary of Kinsey. The little I know of him I don't like. XD If this was true there is still the matter of original sin to consider, and that the human race might not be evolving towards something better, but degenerating. So there are factors that may not be considered which would have a great impact on studies like this. Repentance is a huge thing. Without repentance there is no forgiveness. Without forgiveness we are all dead in our sins. It is tricky. It is not for me to sort out people and make any decisions as to who is going or not. Only God really knows. He is the one who saves people. He is the one who changes peoples lives. I don't want to say that that celebrity will go to hell because I don't know what will happen in his life. He might end up having a change of heart. Who knows.
aw. true. sorry. now i think i get it... we don't have to be bothered whether this celebrity or that is the good role model because as Christians, the one that we should get inspiration from or look up is Jesus Christ! correct? XDD
Yes. 3nodding That is what I meant. We can't be sure that we are presented with materials in studies like this in a truthful way. Sometimes we also have to look at the lives of the people behind the study and what they believe. Everything we say and do no matter how objective we try to stay is effected by what we believe. We present evidence (some times the same evidence)
in a different language and way which in the end could determine how someone reading the evidence understands it.
That is correct brother. smile It is safest going to the one believed in not the believer. |
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Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:04 am
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Ignacio Egnatius so that would mean that even a gay christian would enter heaven?
Well, I think there is a huge difference in your statement there. Being gay is what exactly? - A identity. When a person takes on that identity and allows something to define them other than Christ, then I believe that is wrong. I think that's the entire part of taking up a cross and following Christ.
NO where in scripture does it state that a person that has temptation will go to hell. However, it does say that "it is not what goes into a man that defiles him, but what goes out" (Jesus) also it says that "so a man thinks in his heart, so he is." (Proverbs).
Take me for example. I'm a person that struggles with SSA (same sex attractions). However, they do not define who God says I am. If it weren't SSA I'm sure it would be another thing. And just because a person may not struggle with this, doesn't mean that they are more worthy to get into heaven "not for works lest anyone should" brag.
The issue is when someone acts upon temptations. I think that's what most people don't understand. The same would be true of a liar would it not? Do liar's get into heaven? Do those that practice witchcraft, idolatry (example: watch porn) or those that steal??
Most of the time the question then goes something like this....
Being gay is wrong and they go to hell, but lying every once in a while is fine.
Not saying anyone has said that, but we must understand that God doesn't view sin in any shape or form as having more or less evil. Evil is evil in God's sight. Simple as that. The issue then goes along the lines of, do we strive to seek God, to allow God to examine our hearts and direct us?
Anything that goes against God's will, as outlined in scripture is self evident and is sin. I think that's the most important thing to pull out of this conversation.
Am I perfect, no- but is there anyone "here without sin"? "There is none righteous, no not one." |
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Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:22 am
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Oricalobe Ignacio Egnatius so that would mean that even a gay christian would enter heaven? Well, I think there is a huge difference in your statement there. Being gay is what exactly? - A identity. When a person takes on that identity and allows something to define them other than Christ, then I believe that is wrong. I think that's the entire part of taking up a cross and following Christ. NO where in scripture does it state that a person that has temptation will go to hell. However, it does say that "it is not what goes into a man that defiles him, but what goes out" (Jesus) also it says that "so a man thinks in his heart, so he is." (Proverbs). Take me for example. I'm a person that struggles with SSA (same sex attractions). However, they do not define who God says I am. If it weren't SSA I'm sure it would be another thing. And just because a person may not struggle with this, doesn't mean that they are more worthy to get into heaven "not for works lest anyone should" brag. The issue is when someone acts upon temptations. I think that's what most people don't understand. The same would be true of a liar would it not? Do liar's get into heaven? Do those that practice witchcraft, idolatry (example: watch porn) or those that steal?? Most of the time the question then goes something like this.... Being gay is wrong and they go to hell, but lying every once in a while is fine. Not saying anyone has said that, but we must understand that God doesn't view sin in any shape or form as having more or less evil. Evil is evil in God's sight. Simple as that. The issue then goes along the lines of, do we strive to seek God, to allow God to examine our hearts and direct us? Anything that goes against God's will, as outlined in scripture is self evident and is sin. I think that's the most important thing to pull out of this conversation. Am I perfect, no- but is there anyone "here without sin"? "There is none righteous, no not one."
Earlier when you mentioned, "it is not what goes into a man that defiles him, but what goes out" and you put "Jesus" in quotes - were you mentioning the one in the book of Matthew or Mark?:
Matthew 15:11 NIV:
What goes into someone’s mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them.”
Mark 7:15 NIV:
Nothing outside a person can defile them by going into them. Rather, it is what comes out of a person that defiles them.”
*When you mention "so a man thinks in his heart, so he is" I take it that you are meaning Proverbs 23:7. It is important to look at the full verse:
Proverbs 23:6 - 8 KJV:
Eat thou not the bread of him that hath an evil eye, neither desire thou his dainty meats:
For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee.
The morsel which thou hast eaten shalt thou vomit up, and lose thy sweet words.
Proverbs 23:6 - 8 NIV:
Do not eat the food of a begrudging host,
do not crave his delicacies;
for he is the kind of person
who is always thinking about the cost.
“Eat and drink,” he says to you,
but his heart is not with you.
You will vomit up the little you have eaten
and will have wasted your compliments.
*I think this verse goes a bit more into than only what a man's heart says. I suppose due to translation - why exactly did you use this verse? I just would like to understand what exactly you meant. sweatdrop |
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