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What if Jesus meant every word He said? 

Tags: God, Jesus, The Holy Spirit, The Bible, Truth, Love, Eternal Life, Salvation, Faith, Holy, Fellowship, Apologetics 

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The two witnesses: What is their purpose?

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ll-0RACL3_kun-ll

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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 10:43 pm
It says in the revelation that God would send two witnesses that would have fire come out of their mouths and be killed by the beast, but live again in 3.5 days. Aside from that what is their significance in the reign of the anti-Christ? ninja I mean why are they necessary? mrgreen  
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 10:56 pm
I am honestly not sure of their significance 100%. There are many theories as to why they are important. Although, since they are witnesses - they are probably trying to spread the word and help save people in a limited amount of time and spewing fire out of their mouths at those who rebuke the word of God. They probably have their time to witness and rebuke those who don't believe because God has given them that specific time to do so. If they die and everyone rejoices - they expect the witnesses to be gone and remember in the end - a lot of the world will rejoice in sin and the earth will be filled of it. However, to those who rejoice in the death of the witnesses will probably be afraid when they are resurrected. The time frame may be that to symbolize when Christ died and rose again, but it also may not be and he chooses to resurrect the witnesses when the world believes them to be long gone. I dunno if we'll ever know for sure, though.

Any question about Revelation is usually a good one considering it's an intense book with a lot of meanings. Also, The Bible is one of the books you can read all the way through and never truly know the end until it comes =]  

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Garland-Green

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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 9:05 am
I have had some dealings with seventh day adventists, and they believe that the two witnesses are not persons but books, the Old testament and the New testament. Clothed in burlap so no one could see, before the period of the Reformation.

There is a number of problems with this view:
How do you kill a book? Why are we told the people will rejoice over their dead bodies laying in the streets?

Did the people as a whole rejoice that the Bible was not available to them before the reformation? You see were I am going.

Revelation 11:8
Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city, which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

It seems to me plainly reading the text that they are actual people.
Perhaps Moses and Elijah?

Matthew 17:3
Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.

Perhaps there is a need for these witnesses because there are no saints left, or God could be using two ordinary believers?

Revelation 13:7
He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.

I am only asking questions because I don't have an answer.
They seem to be needed because of peoples rejection of God.
The plagues are not enough. People are still shaking their fist at the sky cursing God, refusing to be saved by turning from their evil and to the salvation that is in Jesus. Maybe they need to hear that? They are going to witness to the people about Jesus.

Revelation 16:11
and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done.  
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 9:24 am
Garland-Green
I have had some dealings with seventh day adventists, and they believe that the two witnesses are not persons but books, the Old testament and the New testament. Clothed in burlap so no one could see, before the period of the Reformation.
Wow, this is a little uncanny. My partner's best friend is Seventh Day Adventist, and we talked about exactly this when he came over for dinner last night, and he told me exactly the same thing.

The idea that the two witnesses are books seems downright silly to me. I don't mean to be disrespectful, especially since my partner's friend is a very good man, a kind and loyal friend, and I like and respect him a great deal, but I just really don't understand Seventh Day Adventism. In general, not just on this particular topic.

I definitely think the witnesses are people, but that's about the only strong opinion I have about them. Revelations has always been tricky for me.  

SinfulGuillotine

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Garland-Green

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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 11:27 am
SinfulGuillotine
Garland-Green
I have had some dealings with seventh day adventists, and they believe that the two witnesses are not persons but books, the Old testament and the New testament. Clothed in burlap so no one could see, before the period of the Reformation.
Wow, this is a little uncanny. My partner's best friend is Seventh Day Adventist, and we talked about exactly this when he came over for dinner last night, and he told me exactly the same thing.

The idea that the two witnesses are books seems downright silly to me. I don't mean to be disrespectful, especially since my partner's friend is a very good man, a kind and loyal friend, and I like and respect him a great deal, but I just really don't understand Seventh Day Adventism. In general, not just on this particular topic.

I definitely think the witnesses are people, but that's about the only strong opinion I have about them. Revelations has always been tricky for me.

There is a lot about Seventh Day Adventism that is silly. I am sure they mean well but still... Most of it stems from their prophetess Ellen G. White. Who had a number of her predictions fail and they use her as much as the Bible. I think revelations is tricky to most people. It uses symbolism mixed with real life description. Sometimes tricky to separate the two.  
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:37 am
Maybe the two witnesses are two distinct groups of people (Jews and Christians) who are witnessing to the truth spoken by the prophets and the Messiah. That would account for the interpretation that the witnesses are people yet representing the Old and New testament scriptures.

I think people would rejoice, not just over the physical killing of these religious groups and its adherents, but the burning of their pages. The word is life. A book without words is dead. That's how I'd imagine "killing" a book. Tearing them out, its pages littering the streets, giant scripture burning in addition to the persecution of these two religious groups—dead corpses and "dead" books/scrolls; Only two groups on earth talk about a Messiah and an atonement sacrifice that covers our sins: Jews and Christians. Islam denies that any sacrifice can atone for our sin despite claiming that we share the same prophets. All the other religions say sin doesn't exist or we can atone for it through good works.

So, maybe a group of really zealous Jews and Christians will rise up in those days. What they speak would be like fire, purifying people (because the truth purifies). Like the burning coal held up to Isaiah's lips (Isaiah 6:7) idea  

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