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 Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:30 am
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Garland-Green Samael KOT And then multiple gods could have done what you did. There are countless things. I believe in gods and stuff, and spirits, and all that, but the fact is that the christian religion could very well just be caused by a bunch of aliens. 1. If there were more than one God, the universe would be in disorder because of multiple creators and authorities, but it is not in disorder; therefore, there is only one God. 2. Since God is a completely perfect being, there cannot be a second God, for they would have to differ in some way, and to differ from complete perfection is to be less than perfect and not be God. 3. Since God is infinite in His existence, He cannot have parts (for parts cannot be added to reach infinity). If God’s existence is not just a part of Him (which it is for all things which can have existence or not), then He must have infinite existence. Therefore, there cannot be two infinite beings, for one would have to differ from the other. Someone may wish to argue that many of these would not rule out a sub-class of “gods,” and that is fine. Although we know this to be untrue biblically, there is nothing wrong with it in theory. In other words, God could have created a sub-class of “gods,” but it just happens to be the case that He did not. If He had, these “gods” would only be limited, created things—probably a lot like angels (Psalm 82). This does not hurt the case for monotheism, which does not say that there cannot be any other spirit beings—only that there cannot be more than one God.
The universe IS in disorder. So you are saying cuz everything isn't hell that somehow it proves that there aren't multiple gods, that makes no sense at all. Your debating skills have gotten worse, read what you said.
You just say stuff and assume everyone will just assume they are true without having any truly logical points. And after the first one falls apart it screws up all your other points. |
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:37 am
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Garland-Green Samael KOT There are countless things. I believe in gods and stuff, and spirits, and all that, but the fact is that the christian religion could very well just be caused by a bunch of aliens. There are no aliens. Not around here, anyway. Why not? Because if there were, they’d already be here by now. Radio has been in use for almost a hundred years. The Earth is surrounded by a sphere of intense electromagnetic activity almost 200 light years in diameter. It only gets more intense as time elapses. Short of bending space, there is no way we can ever take that information back. It’s on its way out to the cosmos, in every direction at the speed of light. You can’t miss it. Natural phenomena, like supernovae and the cosmic microwave background radiation, have a characteristic signature that could never be confused with the orderly pulses of language and images. Information-theoretically, apples and oranges. Radio is easy to invent, once you get to a certain stage as a civilization. You can’t afford not to invent it. Harnessing electromagnetic waves to facilitate near-light-speed communication among the members of a civilization is as natural as constructing shelter or combating disease. The Milky Way galaxy is about ten billion years old. Yet it’s only a hundred thousand light years across. That’s a ratio of a hundred thousand to one. If there were aliens about, we’d be bathed in radio signals continuously. Maybe they showed up so recently that their radio waves haven’t hit us yet? Implausible. If life were to evolve in this galaxy, it would have done so already, and they’d be blasting us with their television dramas. Perhaps alien civilizations have evolved to a medium of communication beyond electromagnetism? That could be the case, but then they’d be colonizing other worlds. Even moving at a tenth of the speed of light, saturating the galaxy with their presence would only take a mere million years, tops. But where are they? Our solar system is appealing. We have a stable, mild star capable of providing billions of exawatts of free power to any alien race interested enough to set up shop here. There is no reason to pass us up. But our neighborhood is silent. An advanced extraterrestrial civilization couldn’t be missed. Life is constructed to flourish and reproduce. At no point will it collectively say, “we’ve had enough”. Individual beings must explore, travel, and consume. Barring dictatorial control forbidding space travel, it’s bound to happen. Not as a trickle, but a flood. Once a form of travel becomes technologically feasible, it becomes progressively easier until millions can do it. http://www.acceleratingfuture.com/michael/blog/2006/01/aliens-there-are-none/ If aliens created the life on earth, who created the aliens?
"They'd be here already"
Have any proof that they aren't and they didn't just genetically create us from trial and error and all that.
Realize that just because we can't get to them they could very well get to us if they are more scientifically advanced. It's called wormholes.
Also just because the government got hold of aliens doesn't mean they will tell us.
Not some crack theorist but it makes sense as a political cause. Imagine how people would react if they found out aliens existed.
Also just because there are aliens out there doesn't mean they want to randomly conquer. They aren't frieza from dbz and they also have other species of aliens to look out for and "gods"
But yeah, it's not that humanity hasn't evolved as much as we are at a comfortable enough level that new life changing things don't need to be brought to us cuz we are calm and do our jobs and we aren't swinging swords around.
There are multiple gods and many spirits, personal experience. |
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:02 am
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Samael KOT Garland-Green Samael KOT And then multiple gods could have done what you did. There are countless things. I believe in gods and stuff, and spirits, and all that, but the fact is that the christian religion could very well just be caused by a bunch of aliens. 1. If there were more than one God, the universe would be in disorder because of multiple creators and authorities, but it is not in disorder; therefore, there is only one God. 2. Since God is a completely perfect being, there cannot be a second God, for they would have to differ in some way, and to differ from complete perfection is to be less than perfect and not be God. 3. Since God is infinite in His existence, He cannot have parts (for parts cannot be added to reach infinity). If God’s existence is not just a part of Him (which it is for all things which can have existence or not), then He must have infinite existence. Therefore, there cannot be two infinite beings, for one would have to differ from the other. Someone may wish to argue that many of these would not rule out a sub-class of “gods,” and that is fine. Although we know this to be untrue biblically, there is nothing wrong with it in theory. In other words, God could have created a sub-class of “gods,” but it just happens to be the case that He did not. If He had, these “gods” would only be limited, created things—probably a lot like angels (Psalm 82). This does not hurt the case for monotheism, which does not say that there cannot be any other spirit beings—only that there cannot be more than one God. The universe IS in disorder. So you are saying cuz everything isn't hell that somehow it proves that there aren't multiple gods, that makes no sense at all. Your debating skills have gotten worse, read what you said. You just say stuff and assume everyone will just assume they are true without having any truly logical points. And after the first one falls apart it screws up all your other points.
The universe is not in disorder. It is upheld by rules. Rules that are not conflicting imply One rule maker. If it was disorderly it would be impossible for us to figure out anything about the world we live in. It wouldn't make sense.
I haven't seen you pick apart any of my arguments. I do see however you trying to change that focus from what I am saying to my debating skills. |
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:20 am
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Samael KOT Garland-Green Samael KOT There are countless things. I believe in gods and stuff, and spirits, and all that, but the fact is that the christian religion could very well just be caused by a bunch of aliens. There are no aliens. Not around here, anyway. Why not? Because if there were, they’d already be here by now. Radio has been in use for almost a hundred years. The Earth is surrounded by a sphere of intense electromagnetic activity almost 200 light years in diameter. It only gets more intense as time elapses. Short of bending space, there is no way we can ever take that information back. It’s on its way out to the cosmos, in every direction at the speed of light. You can’t miss it. Natural phenomena, like supernovae and the cosmic microwave background radiation, have a characteristic signature that could never be confused with the orderly pulses of language and images. Information-theoretically, apples and oranges. Radio is easy to invent, once you get to a certain stage as a civilization. You can’t afford not to invent it. Harnessing electromagnetic waves to facilitate near-light-speed communication among the members of a civilization is as natural as constructing shelter or combating disease. The Milky Way galaxy is about ten billion years old. Yet it’s only a hundred thousand light years across. That’s a ratio of a hundred thousand to one. If there were aliens about, we’d be bathed in radio signals continuously. Maybe they showed up so recently that their radio waves haven’t hit us yet? Implausible. If life were to evolve in this galaxy, it would have done so already, and they’d be blasting us with their television dramas. Perhaps alien civilizations have evolved to a medium of communication beyond electromagnetism? That could be the case, but then they’d be colonizing other worlds. Even moving at a tenth of the speed of light, saturating the galaxy with their presence would only take a mere million years, tops. But where are they? Our solar system is appealing. We have a stable, mild star capable of providing billions of exawatts of free power to any alien race interested enough to set up shop here. There is no reason to pass us up. But our neighborhood is silent. An advanced extraterrestrial civilization couldn’t be missed. Life is constructed to flourish and reproduce. At no point will it collectively say, “we’ve had enough”. Individual beings must explore, travel, and consume. Barring dictatorial control forbidding space travel, it’s bound to happen. Not as a trickle, but a flood. Once a form of travel becomes technologically feasible, it becomes progressively easier until millions can do it. http://www.acceleratingfuture.com/michael/blog/2006/01/aliens-there-are-none/ If aliens created the life on earth, who created the aliens? "They'd be here already" Have any proof that they aren't and they didn't just genetically create us from trial and error and all that. Realize that just because we can't get to them they could very well get to us if they are more scientifically advanced. It's called wormholes. Also just because the government got hold of aliens doesn't mean they will tell us. Not some crack theorist but it makes sense as a political cause. Imagine how people would react if they found out aliens existed. Also just because there are aliens out there doesn't mean they want to randomly conquer. They aren't frieza from dbz and they also have other species of aliens to look out for and "gods" But yeah, it's not that humanity hasn't evolved as much as we are at a comfortable enough level that new life changing things don't need to be brought to us cuz we are calm and do our jobs and we aren't swinging swords around. There are multiple gods and many spirits, personal experience.
Quote: "They'd be here already" Have any proof that they aren't and they didn't just genetically create us from trial and error and all that. Realize that just because we can't get to them they could very well get to us if they are more scientifically advanced. It's called wormholes.
Have any proof that they are/have created humans? Also; who created the aliens?
Quote: Also just because the government got hold of aliens doesn't mean they will tell us. Not some crack theorist but it makes sense as a political cause. Imagine how people would react if they found out aliens existed.
The government can't even keep small secrets. Wikileaks is a prime example. Imagine the number of people that would involved in such a conspiracy. Evidence would leak. There is no way of making sure with the great number of people involved that no one would go public with physical proof, actual alien DNA or technology. Tabloid newspapers is not proof.
People would rejoice. That is the whole purpose (most of its purpose anyway) of the NASA, to find alien life. Why would they even bother looking if they already had proof?
Quote: There are multiple gods and many spirits, personal experience.
Personal experience opposing logic and evidence may be wrong. |
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:50 am
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:02 am
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Garland-Green Samael KOT Garland-Green Samael KOT And then multiple gods could have done what you did. There are countless things. I believe in gods and stuff, and spirits, and all that, but the fact is that the christian religion could very well just be caused by a bunch of aliens. 1. If there were more than one God, the universe would be in disorder because of multiple creators and authorities, but it is not in disorder; therefore, there is only one God. 2. Since God is a completely perfect being, there cannot be a second God, for they would have to differ in some way, and to differ from complete perfection is to be less than perfect and not be God. 3. Since God is infinite in His existence, He cannot have parts (for parts cannot be added to reach infinity). If God’s existence is not just a part of Him (which it is for all things which can have existence or not), then He must have infinite existence. Therefore, there cannot be two infinite beings, for one would have to differ from the other. Someone may wish to argue that many of these would not rule out a sub-class of “gods,” and that is fine. Although we know this to be untrue biblically, there is nothing wrong with it in theory. In other words, God could have created a sub-class of “gods,” but it just happens to be the case that He did not. If He had, these “gods” would only be limited, created things—probably a lot like angels (Psalm 82). This does not hurt the case for monotheism, which does not say that there cannot be any other spirit beings—only that there cannot be more than one God. The universe IS in disorder. So you are saying cuz everything isn't hell that somehow it proves that there aren't multiple gods, that makes no sense at all. Your debating skills have gotten worse, read what you said. You just say stuff and assume everyone will just assume they are true without having any truly logical points. And after the first one falls apart it screws up all your other points. The universe is not in disorder. It is upheld by rules. Rules that are not conflicting imply One rule maker. If it was disorderly it would be impossible for us to figure out anything about the world we live in. It wouldn't make sense. I haven't seen you pick apart any of my arguments. I do see however you trying to change that focus from what I am saying to my debating skills.
That makes no sense. So because science exists, you think that disproves the concept of multiple gods?
That as I said makes no sense and just seems like you are improvising an argument.
"lol there is gravity so therefore there is absolute proof of one almighty god"
No, if those laws didn't exist we wouldn't live like on other planets, and we wouldn't be here to discuss it and it would be discussed by another planet's success. That's all there is to it. |
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:11 am
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Garland-Green Samael KOT Garland-Green Samael KOT There are countless things. I believe in gods and stuff, and spirits, and all that, but the fact is that the christian religion could very well just be caused by a bunch of aliens. There are no aliens. Not around here, anyway. Why not? Because if there were, they’d already be here by now. Radio has been in use for almost a hundred years. The Earth is surrounded by a sphere of intense electromagnetic activity almost 200 light years in diameter. It only gets more intense as time elapses. Short of bending space, there is no way we can ever take that information back. It’s on its way out to the cosmos, in every direction at the speed of light. You can’t miss it. Natural phenomena, like supernovae and the cosmic microwave background radiation, have a characteristic signature that could never be confused with the orderly pulses of language and images. Information-theoretically, apples and oranges. Radio is easy to invent, once you get to a certain stage as a civilization. You can’t afford not to invent it. Harnessing electromagnetic waves to facilitate near-light-speed communication among the members of a civilization is as natural as constructing shelter or combating disease. The Milky Way galaxy is about ten billion years old. Yet it’s only a hundred thousand light years across. That’s a ratio of a hundred thousand to one. If there were aliens about, we’d be bathed in radio signals continuously. Maybe they showed up so recently that their radio waves haven’t hit us yet? Implausible. If life were to evolve in this galaxy, it would have done so already, and they’d be blasting us with their television dramas. Perhaps alien civilizations have evolved to a medium of communication beyond electromagnetism? That could be the case, but then they’d be colonizing other worlds. Even moving at a tenth of the speed of light, saturating the galaxy with their presence would only take a mere million years, tops. But where are they? Our solar system is appealing. We have a stable, mild star capable of providing billions of exawatts of free power to any alien race interested enough to set up shop here. There is no reason to pass us up. But our neighborhood is silent. An advanced extraterrestrial civilization couldn’t be missed. Life is constructed to flourish and reproduce. At no point will it collectively say, “we’ve had enough”. Individual beings must explore, travel, and consume. Barring dictatorial control forbidding space travel, it’s bound to happen. Not as a trickle, but a flood. Once a form of travel becomes technologically feasible, it becomes progressively easier until millions can do it. http://www.acceleratingfuture.com/michael/blog/2006/01/aliens-there-are-none/ If aliens created the life on earth, who created the aliens? "They'd be here already" Have any proof that they aren't and they didn't just genetically create us from trial and error and all that. Realize that just because we can't get to them they could very well get to us if they are more scientifically advanced. It's called wormholes. Also just because the government got hold of aliens doesn't mean they will tell us. Not some crack theorist but it makes sense as a political cause. Imagine how people would react if they found out aliens existed. Also just because there are aliens out there doesn't mean they want to randomly conquer. They aren't frieza from dbz and they also have other species of aliens to look out for and "gods" But yeah, it's not that humanity hasn't evolved as much as we are at a comfortable enough level that new life changing things don't need to be brought to us cuz we are calm and do our jobs and we aren't swinging swords around. There are multiple gods and many spirits, personal experience. Quote: "They'd be here already" Have any proof that they aren't and they didn't just genetically create us from trial and error and all that. Realize that just because we can't get to them they could very well get to us if they are more scientifically advanced. It's called wormholes. Have any proof that they are/have created humans? Also; who created the aliens? Quote: Also just because the government got hold of aliens doesn't mean they will tell us. Not some crack theorist but it makes sense as a political cause. Imagine how people would react if they found out aliens existed. The government can't even keep small secrets. Wikileaks is a prime example. Imagine the number of people that would involved in such a conspiracy. Evidence would leak. There is no way of making sure with the great number of people involved that no one would go public with physical proof, actual alien DNA or technology. Tabloid newspapers is not proof. People would rejoice. That is the whole purpose (most of its purpose anyway) of the NASA, to find alien life. Why would they even bother looking if they already had proof? Quote: There are multiple gods and many spirits, personal experience. Personal experience opposing logic and evidence may be wrong.
Species can be naturally created, it's called evolution. If that didn't happen then we'd not be here to discuss is. If the people of earth weren't here and there was life on another planet, they would go "lol why us and not earth, proof of a god?"
No, it's cuz we were evolved correctly that we are here.
It's so complicated that we are the only humans in the area. They might have been naturally created and us created by them or we might have been naturally made, or a group of gods might have created us.
Listen, if there are multiple gods who kinda get along, I mean they won't ditch each other over a girl clearly cuz they are kinda gods, then it would make more sense with how hectic the universe is. Oh and galaxies are formed by the combination of dark matter and super massive dark holes, so it's not like it naturally ends up like that.
Also about the NASA thing, they can benefit with the general public not knowing.
Also there are tons of "people who come out of the government to tell the public about aliens"
But people who think like you go "lol no it's impossible" then turn around and use proof that people don't go out and try to tell people to defend your false religions.
Earth is very young, VERY. And there is already possible water on other planets and with that
Are you really that arrogant, do you think you are something important as a human? We are pretty much animals, we heavily go off our instincts and we are all fairly predictable. Especially in the grand scheme of things. Also we are all pretty insignificant. There ARE more advanced civilizations out there and we are pretty much in the stages of trying to find out how to use worm holes NOW. Heck people are making a dark hole. |
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:04 pm
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:54 pm
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Just kind of glancing around this thread... ninja
I find there is a lot of evidence for Creationism, some of which I mention here...
Dramatica Angeliqua Aniew Dramatica Angeliqua I believe science coincides with the Bible but am quite skeptical on evolution being called science, when in fact it appears to be unscientific and more of a radical belief that requires more faith than faith in God. What is factual about evolution in the first place? Where is the empirical evidence leading us to accept it as a fact? The fact that it is a theory and not a law does not make it unreliable, as, gravity is also considered a theory. All sciences have in some form evidence to support this theory. I don't want to sidetrack the topic, but Wikipedia has a great list of evidence of evolution. It should explain everything you could reasonably want to know about it as well as counterpoints to arguments frequently presented by others who share your background. Hope that might help emotion_hug Really? That's very interesting! 4laugh I'll go check it out, but I believe in the Flood occurrence due to the earth's abundant coal and oil and the discovery of whale bones on mountaintops. Just from a quick glance, I noticed one of the arguments talked about vestigial structures... You don't mind if I state an opinion on this from spontaneous thought? Okay, well, humans have what's called a tail bone, however there are nine muscles attached to it, so it cannot possibly be vestigial. And whale bones' hind structure cannot be vestigial, as well, due to the bones serving as anchor points for muscles, and without them it is impossible to reproduce. And admittedly, I kind of have an issue with fossil dating by how old the rock layers are, because I think it appears to be circular reasoning and that petrified trees have been found in all rock layers, some even upside down, running through millions of years worth of rock, which points to the Flood. Just throwing that out there, but you don't have to believe me if you don't want to. ^ ^ I think it's great to hear everyone's thoughts. Oops, haha, don't mean to get off topic, either. sweatdrop That's entirely my fault.
It's really not blind faith, and my faith in the Christian God has been strengthened because I also encountered the supernatural. Personal experiences. Several. Actually, it's more like moving from the realm of faith into the realm of knowledge. Therefore, you no longer simply believe but know. Samael, I'm so happy we can actually relate by both knowing without a doubt the supernatural exists! 4laugh I also believe Magick is real because I dabbled into it before... I also created psi balls and practiced witchcraft. Fortunately, I repented of these things and no longer do them. I now believe they are Satanic and an abhorrence to a just and holy God.
I sincerely apologize for the horrifying length (it will scare you), but here's my testimonies and stuff you can view if you want: My Testimonies & Dreams Collection
Hey, I understand your bitterness toward God. If not, then I am familiar with it. "Like, why would He be just and holy if life seems so unfair and hard? Why does he allow suffering in the world? Does He simply not care? Have we been abandoned?" I know it's human nature to blame God and get angry with Him when we do not understand why He does what He does. I know I do sometimes. Well, these are my own words quoted when I was talking to a suicidal girl, wanting to make her feel better:
Dramatica Angeliqua
Suffering is a part of being human. It's what makes us human... We all are weak; it's just that some people are afraid to show it or don't want to admit it. We carry our pride and keep it close to our hearts as if it would protect us. Pride is our armor. Without it we are meek and honest. We all have our issues, we all have our bottled up anger, suppressed misery, confusion. We all think we're alone, and no one can help us. If we endure through our struggles and hardships and remain strong to the end, how much more we can overcome! God understands... He allows bad things like suffering in the world because He can see good outcomes in what is at first deemed bad. Sure, suffering hurts, but in the end we have love and compassion for one another, sympathizing with others in pain. We know we've gone through the same things and that we're not alone. It's our way to really connect with each other. And with God, too. Without suffering...who needs God? Who needs Him to save you, hold you, comfort you? No one would cry out to God, and He would be long forgotten. Where's hope if there's no suffering? Where's love, compassion, and sympathy if there's no suffering? It makes us spiritually strong, wise, molds and shapes us into the people God intends for us to be. Quote: But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong. (2 Corinthians 12:9-10.) Quote: Peace and Hope
Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the hope of the glory of God. Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.
You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. (Romans 5:1-8.) I hope your day was better today. ^ ^ I'm here for support whenever you need me. God Bless. <3
And about aliens? Haha, they are curious creatures, aren't they? 4laugh Interestingly, I read an article a few years ago on the Internet about someone witnessing alien-like beings emerging from the spirit realm...? And they were transparent. Somehow I can't find it anymore. gonk No sightings seem to have been very clear or focused, possibly evidence for non-physical objects/beings. I am led to believe aliens are another form a demon takes, as demons often also appear as familiar spirits and ghostly beings as some of their disguises to deceive.
EDIT:
Ehh... Samael and Garland, you guys obviously have two different views and are unwilling to back down. You're like North and South. So, I believe this debate is futile, never ending, and going nowhere. Samael doesn't seem to be interested in finding answers at the moment, and his arguments serve as his answers rather than our responses. Tons and tons of evidence aren't going to change him, Garland. It takes the Holy Spirit to give him a change of heart. Have patience, for accepting views radically different from his own would be quite overwhelming. These things take time. He needs time to think, so let's accept him as he is right now. The best thing to do is pray and show kindness as Christ would. wink
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 1:41 am
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Dramatica Angeliqua EDIT: Ehh... Samael and Garland, you guys obviously have two different views and are unwilling to back down. You're like North and South. So, I believe this debate is futile, never ending, and going nowhere. Samael doesn't seem to be interested in finding answers at the moment, and his arguments serve as his answers rather than our responses. Tons and tons of evidence aren't going to change him, Garland. It takes the Holy Spirit to give him a change of heart. Have patience, for accepting views radically different from his own would be quite overwhelming. These things take time. He needs time to think, so let's accept him as he is right now. The best thing to do is pray and show kindness as Christ would. wink
I will take your advice, and leave things to God. =) It is just frustrating, because I have been there. I have believed these things about aliens, and gods and they are a deception. They are enslaving people, not setting people free. They are pretending to be the Truth while being a Lie. Having been a slave to that it hurts to see other people suffering from it, unknowingly. |
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:44 am
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Samael KOT Garland-Green Samael KOT Garland-Green Samael KOT And then multiple gods could have done what you did. There are countless things. I believe in gods and stuff, and spirits, and all that, but the fact is that the christian religion could very well just be caused by a bunch of aliens. 1. If there were more than one God, the universe would be in disorder because of multiple creators and authorities, but it is not in disorder; therefore, there is only one God. 2. Since God is a completely perfect being, there cannot be a second God, for they would have to differ in some way, and to differ from complete perfection is to be less than perfect and not be God. 3. Since God is infinite in His existence, He cannot have parts (for parts cannot be added to reach infinity). If God’s existence is not just a part of Him (which it is for all things which can have existence or not), then He must have infinite existence. Therefore, there cannot be two infinite beings, for one would have to differ from the other. Someone may wish to argue that many of these would not rule out a sub-class of “gods,” and that is fine. Although we know this to be untrue biblically, there is nothing wrong with it in theory. In other words, God could have created a sub-class of “gods,” but it just happens to be the case that He did not. If He had, these “gods” would only be limited, created things—probably a lot like angels (Psalm 82). This does not hurt the case for monotheism, which does not say that there cannot be any other spirit beings—only that there cannot be more than one God. The universe IS in disorder. So you are saying cuz everything isn't hell that somehow it proves that there aren't multiple gods, that makes no sense at all. Your debating skills have gotten worse, read what you said. You just say stuff and assume everyone will just assume they are true without having any truly logical points. And after the first one falls apart it screws up all your other points. The universe is not in disorder. It is upheld by rules. Rules that are not conflicting imply One rule maker. If it was disorderly it would be impossible for us to figure out anything about the world we live in. It wouldn't make sense. I haven't seen you pick apart any of my arguments. I do see however you trying to change that focus from what I am saying to my debating skills. That makes no sense. So because science exists, you think that disproves the concept of multiple gods? That as I said makes no sense and just seems like you are improvising an argument. "lol there is gravity so therefore there is absolute proof of one almighty god" No, if those laws didn't exist we wouldn't live like on other planets, and we wouldn't be here to discuss it and it would be discussed by another planet's success. That's all there is to it.
I am just going to take my friends advice and round things up since
she is right. It would be an endless debate with no conclusion, and it is counterproductive.
I hope you don't take offence.
~Garland |
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 1:17 pm
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 1:51 pm
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Dramatica Angeliqua Just kind of glancing around this thread... ninja I find there is a lot of evidence for Creationism, some of which I mention here... Dramatica Angeliqua Aniew Dramatica Angeliqua I believe science coincides with the Bible but am quite skeptical on evolution being called science, when in fact it appears to be unscientific and more of a radical belief that requires more faith than faith in God. What is factual about evolution in the first place? Where is the empirical evidence leading us to accept it as a fact? The fact that it is a theory and not a law does not make it unreliable, as, gravity is also considered a theory. All sciences have in some form evidence to support this theory. I don't want to sidetrack the topic, but Wikipedia has a great list of evidence of evolution. It should explain everything you could reasonably want to know about it as well as counterpoints to arguments frequently presented by others who share your background. Hope that might help emotion_hug Really? That's very interesting! 4laugh I'll go check it out, but I believe in the Flood occurrence due to the earth's abundant coal and oil and the discovery of whale bones on mountaintops. Just from a quick glance, I noticed one of the arguments talked about vestigial structures... You don't mind if I state an opinion on this from spontaneous thought? Okay, well, humans have what's called a tail bone, however there are nine muscles attached to it, so it cannot possibly be vestigial. And whale bones' hind structure cannot be vestigial, as well, due to the bones serving as anchor points for muscles, and without them it is impossible to reproduce. And admittedly, I kind of have an issue with fossil dating by how old the rock layers are, because I think it appears to be circular reasoning and that petrified trees have been found in all rock layers, some even upside down, running through millions of years worth of rock, which points to the Flood. Just throwing that out there, but you don't have to believe me if you don't want to. ^ ^ I think it's great to hear everyone's thoughts. Oops, haha, don't mean to get off topic, either. sweatdrop That's entirely my fault. It's really not blind faith, and my faith in the Christian God has been strengthened because I also encountered the supernatural. Personal experiences. Several. Actually, it's more like moving from the realm of faith into the realm of knowledge. Therefore, you no longer simply believe but know. Samael, I'm so happy we can actually relate by both knowing without a doubt the supernatural exists! 4laugh I also believe Magick is real because I dabbled into it before... I also created psi balls and practiced witchcraft. Fortunately, I repented of these things and no longer do them. I now believe they are Satanic and an abhorrence to a just and holy God. I sincerely apologize for the horrifying length (it will scare you), but here's my testimonies and stuff you can view if you want: My Testimonies & Dreams CollectionHey, I understand your bitterness toward God. If not, then I am familiar with it. "Like, why would He be just and holy if life seems so unfair and hard? Why does he allow suffering in the world? Does He simply not care? Have we been abandoned?" I know it's human nature to blame God and get angry with Him when we do not understand why He does what He does. I know I do sometimes. Well, these are my own words quoted when I was talking to a suicidal girl, wanting to make her feel better: Dramatica Angeliqua
Suffering is a part of being human. It's what makes us human... We all are weak; it's just that some people are afraid to show it or don't want to admit it. We carry our pride and keep it close to our hearts as if it would protect us. Pride is our armor. Without it we are meek and honest. We all have our issues, we all have our bottled up anger, suppressed misery, confusion. We all think we're alone, and no one can help us. If we endure through our struggles and hardships and remain strong to the end, how much more we can overcome! God understands... He allows bad things like suffering in the world because He can see good outcomes in what is at first deemed bad. Sure, suffering hurts, but in the end we have love and compassion for one another, sympathizing with others in pain. We know we've gone through the same things and that we're not alone. It's our way to really connect with each other. And with God, too. Without suffering...who needs God? Who needs Him to save you, hold you, comfort you? No one would cry out to God, and He would be long forgotten. Where's hope if there's no suffering? Where's love, compassion, and sympathy if there's no suffering? It makes us spiritually strong, wise, molds and shapes us into the people God intends for us to be. Quote: But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong. (2 Corinthians 12:9-10.) Quote: Peace and Hope
Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the hope of the glory of God. Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.
You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. (Romans 5:1-8.) I hope your day was better today. ^ ^ I'm here for support whenever you need me. God Bless. <3 And about aliens? Haha, they are curious creatures, aren't they? 4laugh Interestingly, I read an article a few years ago on the Internet about someone witnessing alien-like beings emerging from the spirit realm...? And they were transparent. Somehow I can't find it anymore. gonk No sightings seem to have been very clear or focused, possibly evidence for non-physical objects/beings. I am led to believe aliens are another form a demon takes, as demons often also appear as familiar spirits and ghostly beings as some of their disguises to deceive. EDIT: Ehh... Samael and Garland, you guys obviously have two different views and are unwilling to back down. You're like North and South. So, I believe this debate is futile, never ending, and going nowhere. Samael doesn't seem to be interested in finding answers at the moment, and his arguments serve as his answers rather than our responses. Tons and tons of evidence aren't going to change him, Garland. It takes the Holy Spirit to give him a change of heart. Have patience, for accepting views radically different from his own would be quite overwhelming. These things take time. He needs time to think, so let's accept him as he is right now. The best thing to do is pray and show kindness as Christ would. wink
Repented?? There are millions of people with "personal experiences"
Also everything that isn't fancying Christianity has to be repented? Even if your God exists you wouldn't need to repent. Your god gave you free will, the witchcraft, vampire, werewolf evil demonized s**t all came up from the humans and nothing else.
In your religion it was specifically stated that he gave us free will and that's the a** pull thing you Christians always use for why the world is as it is with an omnipotent being who can just smile and make everything better from the wrinkle lines it takes to smile. Not not even that much and everything bad would be better. That's your belief isn't it? Kinda sounds like a children's story, not a good ancient world one but a shitty modern one.
Why is using what what we were given a sin in your religion? Magick doesn't come from evil spirits, it can be it doesn't mostly. It's mainly individual, and if we have such an ability and free will and he's omnipotent, then that would mean it's pretty much not a sin, heck if he exists maybe he WANTED us to do it and evolve further WITH IT.
Also regarding sightings, do you put it past a government with near limitless resources and who control the general population
There are near infinite galaxies in the universe.
If you don't think other life is out there when we are very young, then that kinda ******** over your idea that God is at all real, considering if he had a will of his own yet only created life on earth then you are either EXTREMELY arrogant which means you shouldn't be taken seriously or a conscious being couldn't have possibly created the universe.
"Doesn't seem to be interested in finding answers"
You are the bad part of Christianity that other Christians hate, do you realize how arrogant that comment is. Unless you yourself are God, you don't know s**t, simple as that.
"Tons and tons of evidence aren't going to change him."
I've heard no proof that put Christianity apart from any other religion in the universe. You are an arrogant ********, get over yourself. You have no proof yet you claim it as fact and me below you for not believing.
Tell me, what the ******** do you do with your life that is so important that you think you even half the worth I am.
Oh and the Holy Spirit doesn't exist, everything you've gained from "religion" was personal. If you believe that Christianity is real, clearly with a s**t ton of arrogance, that strengthens your life because willpower gets stronger when you have absolute faith in something even if it's full of s**t. You guys are clearly to far gone and are you are a disgrace by the fact that you said you thinking critically about religion when you guys are really just blindly faithing it.
When you die and realize that Christianity wasn't real?
Wouldn't it have been better if you bettered yourself through spiritual training than going in there thinking you'd have an omnipotent being that didn't exist who would watch over you? If you had any logical thinking abilities you would think like that, improving yourself through that stuff no matter the outcome would be the safest way, you are doing an all or nothing off something that most likely doesn't exist while I'm bettering myself so that no matter the outcome I still have my little "bomb shelter"
While you will be a fodder with nothing.
Garland: "They are enslaving people"
So by having someone believe in another entity than your own it's enslavement? But for your own religion that has killed countless people, it's justified? Kk that's a very 12 year old girl way of looking at it.
You have no idea what the truth is, you think you do.
You talk down to me like you are greater than me while you are below me, in all ways, spiritually, emotionally, socially, and everything in between. Yet you are so arrogant despite this. |
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 1:55 pm
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