Lies

[Aquatic_blue]

I know that in today's society that telling a lie is more than just the norm. People tell lies for all sorts of reasons such as to skip out on school, skip out on work, skip out on having to go on a date with a certain person, skipping out on hanging with that friend that nobody seems to like all that much, etc. I know that sometimes when I've asked for advice on something I get, "Oh, just tell a lie to get out of it. Just say, '-insert lie here."

Now, my view on lies is this:

There is no such thing as a "white lie". A white lie is still a lie and there's nothing "white" or "good" or "okay" about it! Scripture tells us that lies are not okay and aren't good:

Revelation 21:8 NIV:

But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars —they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

*Jesus also mentions that Satan is a deceiver and a liar:

John 8:42 - 44 NIV:

Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

*Telling lies is in the 10 commandments:

Exodus 20:16 NIV:

“You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.

*God's word is truth:

Psalm 25:5 NIV:

Guide me in your truth and teach me,
for you are God my Savior,
and my hope is in you all day long.

John 8:31-32 NIV:

To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

John 14:6-7 NIV:

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

*Lies are ugly and can cause a lot of problems. Most of us may have been in the situation in life where we lie about one thing and then have to bash through the whole situation with lie after lie after lie, because if we just say, "Well, I lied about that earlier..." then we're afraid the person we are telling a lie to will be upset so we keep going. Then in the end if the person finds out we have lied we either try to push with more lies to recover ourselves, say, "Okay, you got me - I lied." or have someone incredibly upset with us. I know it's a common thing though and have seen it happen. Lies can tear incredibly special relationships apart such as marriages, friendships, family relationships, etc. I know I have been lied to and when I figured out it doesn't feel good at all.

I'm sure most of us know the feeling of being lied to and how much it hurts inside to know you've been betrayed. If we remember that feeling before we tell a lie, we can probably stop telling lies completely. Jesus never told a lie and he was in a physical form - human like the rest of us. He came to Earth to show us that we can live in the light!

I remember being in school and we had a guest speaker. This woman that was speaking was older than the ones she was speaking to, of course. I remember her saying, "Telling lies is never okay...except when you're at someone's house for dinner and their cooking was terrible and you can just say, "Thanks for the meal! It was delicious!" Now this lady had a career, more than likely her own family, and she was telling a group of middle school kids that telling a "white lie" was "okay". I was thinking, "Oh, so it's okay..." and then later I remember telling my Mom what all I had been taught at school that day and she had to explain to me why "white lies" weren't okay. I can see through the word how a "white lie" is still a "lie". If a "white lie" wasn't "exactly a lie" then what is it? The truth? Not at all. People tell these "white lies" and say half truth-half lie to ease their conscience, but it's still a lie.

I remember another instance in high school when the teacher threw out a few debate topics and one being, "Is it ever okay to tell a lie? Why or why not?" He went around the room asking and I was astounded how many people said "white lies" are okay and "sugar coating" things are fine. Some also said, "No, it's not okay." and then when that happened and one student in the class pulled out a Bible and read a verse mentioning lies were not okay the teacher asked the class, "If you were in court as a witness for someone you knew well whether it be family or friend - would you lie to try to get them out of going to jail?" and some people that said, "No." before said, "Absolutely! Yeah, I'd definitely lie to keep someone I loved out of jail!" and it was just upsetting how a situation like that flipped a person's mindset. However, the student with the Bible never backed down and said still a lie is never okay, which was awesome. It was also saddening to me how many people in the class said that lies were okay.

I know that all of us have told a lie in our lifetimes since we are all sinners and can never do this alone without God's grace. We can always do our best to not lie because we know it's wrong and work on that if it has become a habit. We also have God's forgiveness, grace, and mercy for when we do make a mistake and tell a lie on first impulse without thinking about it or even when we do think about it and do it anyway and feel the guilt later. Although, we shouldn't lie intentionally, ask for forgiveness, and do it again right away hours later knowing we're doing it, and try our best to be free of the filth of lies.

So, here's the real questions for you all to answer:

1. Is there a difference between a lie and a white lie? If so, what's the difference?
2. Do you believe there are certain circumstances where it would be okay to lie? Why or why not?

And add anything else that you would like to add to that. I like to be able to read people's beliefs on hotly debated matters 3nodding  

[The Wabbit]

In all honesty, it boils down to you and the Lord.

1. How often do you talk to him?

It is dire that we keep a open connection to him, accepting all he wants us to do. He gives you want you need, not what you want.

2. Do you have many unanswered questions that only he can answer?

I know I have many! But I know that in time, it will all be revealed. I also pray, and talk much to him.

3. Does he care what others think of you?

Maybe. But what it comes down to- - God knows your heart. He knows what intentions you had at every time your heart beat. And he loves you, even the mistakes.

4. How does sin start?

Sin starts not with your action to steal/lie or what ever, but with the thought process. And yes, the lord is there, watching you and feeling you fight that battle of good over evil. And he loves that struggle. And it sucks when we give in to the bad things... But we are human, and God understands.

And he still loves you, for you have accepted him. And you know him, and he knows you biggrin

Hope this helped!

Be safe!

And may you prophecy.  

[Garland-Green]

This is something that hits close to home for me. It is something I struggle with.
Not with those I don't know. I can be honest to the point of being almost brutal with someone I don't know, while someone I care for I can lie to. I do it because I feel pressured, to spare feelings. To avoid confrontations. To be accepted.
Non of these are valid reasons to lie though. A lie is a lie. There are no white ones... That is just something used to justify something to ourselves that there is no justification for. It is something that I hope God will help me overcome. Nobody wants to be a liar.  

[Aquatic_blue]

Waves-of-Vangogh

In all honesty, it boils down to you and the Lord.

1. How often do you talk to him?

It is dire that we keep a open connection to him, accepting all he wants us to do. He gives you want you need, not what you want.

2. Do you have many unanswered questions that only he can answer?

I know I have many! But I know that in time, it will all be revealed. I also pray, and talk much to him.

3. Does he care what others think of you?

Maybe. But what it comes down to- - God knows your heart. He knows what intentions you had at every time your heart beat. And he loves you, even the mistakes.

4. How does sin start?

Sin starts not with your action to steal/lie or what ever, but with the thought process. And yes, the lord is there, watching you and feeling you fight that battle of good over evil. And he loves that struggle. And it sucks when we give in to the bad things... But we are human, and God understands.

And he still loves you, for you have accepted him. And you know him, and he knows you biggrin

Hope this helped!

Be safe!

And may you prophecy.

In all honesty, I disagree on a few things. God sometimes does give you what you want when He believes you're ready for that certain thing and it's okay with Him that you have it. God does give us what we need - always, because that's clear and He knows our needs before we even ask. God promises to answer prayer in His word. I know that at times I've prayed for something that I didn't need, but wanted, and I got it after praying for years and years. I prayed for a Christian husband for years. Now, having a spouse isn't a necessity in life, but it's nice to have a spouse to spend life with. After years and praying, that prayer was finally answered just as I was about to give up on finding a guy at all. God does give people things that they want, too:

Matthew 21:22 NIV:

If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.”

John 14:13 - 14NIV:

And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

*I don't think God was only talking about "needs" there, but also "wants". 3nodding

Also, God doesn't care what other people think of you if you believe in Him. He knows if you believe in the truth of His word - people will hate you and want you to suffer. People will try to make you fall and pick on you. God cares for everyones souls and wants people to be saved - he mentions those who are against believers and this verse sums it up well:

Isaiah 41:11 - 13 NIV:

“All who rage against you
will surely be ashamed and disgraced;
those who oppose you
will be as nothing and perish.
Though you search for your enemies,
you will not find them.
Those who wage war against you
will be as nothing at all.
For I am the LORD your God
who takes hold of your right hand
and says to you, Do not fear;
I will help you.

*God tells us that there will be people who hate us for what we believe and God is not at all surprised about that. He doesn't care what others think of us if we delight in the truth.


John 15:19 NIV:

If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.

1 Peter 4:12 NIV

Dear friends, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal that has come on you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you.

*If you meant something else by "maybe" then just tell me what exactly you meant in case I misunderstood. I definitely agree that God loves everybody even the mistakes. I'm sure he delights in it more when people believe in Him and follow His commandments, too, and ask Him for forgiveness and lean on Him for answers, needs, wants, etc..

Bottomline: I must ask though what your post had to do about the topic of "lies" and the questions I asked. I don't see how it would depend where you stand with the Lord because a lie is a lie and God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit do not delight in lies. God mentions liars along with other people in Hell or "the second death". Since all sin is still the same, telling a lie is just as bad as murdering somebody. In society, that may not appear to be so because charges for murder are much heavier than telling lies to law enforcement. In God's eyes, all sins are the same. So if we lie - we aren't better than a murderer, idolator, adulterer, or any other type of evil.

Colossians 3:8 NIV:

But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips.

1 John 5:17 NIV:

All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.

*All wrongdoing is sin and all sin leads to death. I suppose the earliest supporting evidence of that is Adam and Eve. All they did is break one simple commandment...just had a bite of that fruit and that was the beginning of the fall of man. Everyone was cursed - man, woman, and Satan himself for one wrongdoing. As human beings, we're naturally sinful:

Jeremiah 17:5 - 10 NIV:

This is what the LORD says:

“Cursed is the one who trusts in man,
who draws strength from mere flesh
and whose heart turns away from the LORD.
That person will be like a bush in the wastelands;
they will not see prosperity when it comes.
They will dwell in the parched places of the desert,
in a salt land where no one lives.

“But blessed is the one who trusts in the LORD,
whose confidence is in him.
They will be like a tree planted by the water
that sends out its roots by the stream.
It does not fear when heat comes;
its leaves are always green.
It has no worries in a year of drought
and never fails to bear fruit.”

The heart is deceitful above all things
and beyond cure.
Who can understand it?

“I the LORD search the heart
and examine the mind,
to reward each person according to their conduct,
according to what their deeds deserve.”

*With God's grace we can be forgiven when we mess up if we just ask for that forgiveness and can forgive ourselves as well. When we ask for forgiveness, we should give it our best to not try to sin. Throughout life we will mess up and that's a guarantee because we are human beings. After asking for forgiveness, trying our absolutely hardest to follow all of God's commands should be what we try. I know there are some out there I have met that do sinful things, ask for forgiveness, and then do the same thing all over again and then continue that cycle. God will forgive you, and if it's a sin you can stop - which you can through God because all things are possible - then the person sinning should stop that sin and do whatever it takes to stop it without replacing it with another sin.

I suppose I don't exactly understand your point of view and what exactly it is that you are trying to say.  

[Aquatic_blue]

Garland-Green

This is something that hits close to home for me. It is something I struggle with.
Not with those I don't know. I can be honest to the point of being almost brutal with someone I don't know, while someone I care for I can lie to. I do it because I feel pressured, to spare feelings. To avoid confrontations. To be accepted.
Non of these are valid reasons to lie though. A lie is a lie. There are no white ones... That is just something used to justify something to ourselves that there is no justification for. It is something that I hope God will help me overcome. Nobody wants to be a liar.

Indeed, I also noticed that it's easier to lie to someone you care than someone you don't because you want to spare feelings and make the person you care for happy and not have to worry. It definitely doesn't justify any type of lie, and you summed that up quite well in a short paragraph. I think that's what most people get tangled up in, too - trying to spare feelings of those they care for, and in the end it sometimes causes more hurt than anything else.  

[Aoife]

crying

If you can live your life without ever telling any form of lie, I applaud you.

I generally don't of course, but to say I never tell a lie would be a lie!

Sometimes I think there is the lesser of two evils if you will. I know this will surprise you, but even in the bible there are cases of it, where it seems to contradict itself if you super study it out, which I was unaware of until I listened to some teachings from a man who studied under a rabbi. Some of the things in the bible and in old rabbinical culture are simply foreign to me since I didn't grow up that way and it doesn't read that same way to me.

I look at it like this now. The greatest command is to love. Period. Your God and your neighbor as yourself. If telling the truth can damage someone and not show love when a simple kind (but perhaps unfelt) word would show love, which is better?

Of course, this is a topic you can disagree about and that's ok. This is simply MY conviction at the moment. If the Lord speaks to me differently, I would certainly be changeable. sweatdrop  

[Aquatic_blue]

Aoife

crying

If you can live your life without ever telling any form of lie, I applaud you.

I generally don't of course, but to say I never tell a lie would be a lie!

Sometimes I think there is the lesser of two evils if you will. I know this will surprise you, but even in the bible there are cases of it, where it seems to contradict itself if you super study it out, which I was unaware of until I listened to some teachings from a man who studied under a rabbi. Some of the things in the bible and in old rabbinical culture are simply foreign to me since I didn't grow up that way and it doesn't read that same way to me.

I look at it like this now. The greatest command is to love. Period. Your God and your neighbor as yourself. If telling the truth can damage someone and not show love when a simple kind (but perhaps unfelt) word would show love, which is better?

Of course, this is a topic you can disagree about and that's ok. This is simply MY conviction at the moment. If the Lord speaks to me differently, I would certainly be changeable. sweatdrop

I definitely believe that telling the truth is better and having someone hate you, stop being friends with you, or even being hurt by it than saying an unfelt or untrue word that makes a person feel better about their situation for the time being. If that friend later said, "Thanks for telling me (unfelt statement said earlier here)! You have the best advice!" We might feel we are in a bit of a rut because we lied in the first place.

The truth isn't always easy to say, or for other people to handle. If a person doesn't like hearing the truth then there is something there that isn't quite right.

There are a lot of Christians, or members of other religions, that may go to a church service and hear words that are "seasoned" or "sugar coated" to leave everyone feeling good. Should a pastor (who should delight in truth) tell a congregation what they want to hear or what they need to hear? A teacher shouldn't pass up the opportunity to tell people what they need to hear instead of what they want to hear. If you always tell people what they want to hear then how will they learn how to get through the most troublesome parts in their lives?

God's word won't always feel like bliss to our soul. There are times when we need to be corrected for actions we may have taken or sin we may have given into, and the truth of that will sting. The Holy Bible mentions that God's sword/His word pierces the soul, and I don't think that is always meant to feel good:

Hebrews 4:12 NIV:

For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

*During my walk with God, I noticed that the most valuable lessons can feel awful, or make you feel like your soul is reeking of filth. Before I got everything right with God and started heading down the narrow road, I realized I had believed things that were false in the past simply because I didn't test the spirit, consult God's word enough, and was told as a child to believe everything I heard in church. That church did not delight in truth and they never told stories that seem harsh to tell that have valuable lessons such as Eli's wicked sons, Sampson and Delilah, Deborah the judge, etc. etc. Hardly did they consult the Old Testament on historical events that are valuable lessons. They probably didn't mention those stories because they didn't want to listen. After reading The Holy Bible for myself, I realized a lot of things in my life that I wasn't doing right according to God's word. It stung and tore me up inside. I was hurting by realizing how wrong I had been for so many years. I realized that I needed truth, no matter how bad it hurt. I realized that I will always need to follow the truth. I do my best not to tell lies, and to be honest.

One funny thing I noticed is that with a best friend - they can tell the truth to their parents or to even law enforcement officials and they scoff and say, "Yeah, right." but they tell a lie and everyone believes them. Sometimes the truth sounds unbelievable to human ears, and possibly so weird that it doesn't sound possible. Not everyone you tell the truth to will believe you anyway - so it's better to keep telling the truth.

Quote:

I know this will surprise you, but even in the bible there are cases of it, where it seems to contradict itself if you super study it out,

Where in The Holy Bible have you seen these contradictions? Can you post a book or verse where they are found?  

[Aoife]

Aquatic_blue

Quote:

I know this will surprise you, but even in the bible there are cases of it, where it seems to contradict itself if you super study it out,

Where in The Holy Bible have you seen these contradictions? Can you post a book or verse where they are found?

cases of choosing the lesser or two evils, not really that it contradicts itself, I should be very clear here, I worded that poorly the first time, sorry. I do believe God's Word is infallible.

The specific example I heard from someone (Shane Willard, ShaneWillardMinistries.org, you can look him up, he teaches in a manner that is vastly different from what people who don't study under a Rabbi can teach like) I have his series, How to study the bible like a Hebrew
anyway, the incident he referred to specifically was the good Samaritan.

The priest I believe it was that passed him would have only been going that way specifically to atone for his peoples sins in a temple and would normally have been constrained to stop and help. Since the man would have been severely beaten, there was a chance he could have died. Touching a dead man would of course defiled the priest and made him unclean and he would not have been able to go and make atonement for all his people he was in charge of. The "lighter" sin (lesser of two evils) was to not help the beaten man to be able to cleanse the sins of all he was in charge of. The Hebrew people actually called these things the lighter and heavy (not greater sin than another) The lighter was to pass one man by, the heavy would have been to leave all those people under sin.


I certainly never implied that people should only tell people what they want to hear, you kinda argued that on your own. I know there are many times to say the unpleasant, and speak the truth IN LOVE.

I am not even arguing that it's OK to tell lies in any form, I am simply saying my position. Do I believe I sometimes fail in the right thing? absolutely. do I believe that I am still a sinner? no.

Righteous people can make mistakes and still be righteous.
Unrighteous people can do the right thing and still be unrighteous. Just doing right doesn't make you righteous and just doing wrong doesn't make you a sinner. Rom 7:15 Paul said "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do." I think he made it to heaven. smile  

[Aquatic_blue]

Aoife

Aquatic_blue

Quote:

I know this will surprise you, but even in the bible there are cases of it, where it seems to contradict itself if you super study it out,

Where in The Holy Bible have you seen these contradictions? Can you post a book or verse where they are found?

cases of choosing the lesser or two evils, not really that it contradicts itself, I should be very clear here, I worded that poorly the first time, sorry. I do believe God's Word is infallible.

The specific example I heard from someone (Shane Willard, ShaneWillardMinistries.org, you can look him up, he teaches in a manner that is vastly different from what people who don't study under a Rabbi can teach like) I have his series, How to study the bible like a Hebrew
anyway, the incident he referred to specifically was the good Samaritan.

The priest I believe it was that passed him would have only been going that way specifically to atone for his peoples sins in a temple and would normally have been constrained to stop and help. Since the man would have been severely beaten, there was a chance he could have died. Touching a dead man would of course defiled the priest and made him unclean and he would not have been able to go and make atonement for all his people he was in charge of. The "lighter" sin (lesser of two evils) was to not help the beaten man to be able to cleanse the sins of all he was in charge of. The Hebrew people actually called these things the lighter and heavy (not greater sin than another) The lighter was to pass one man by, the heavy would have been to leave all those people under sin.


I certainly never implied that people should only tell people what they want to hear, you kinda argued that on your own. I know there are many times to say the unpleasant, and speak the truth IN LOVE.

I am not even arguing that it's OK to tell lies in any form, I am simply saying my position. Do I believe I sometimes fail in the right thing? absolutely. do I believe that I am still a sinner? no.

Righteous people can make mistakes and still be righteous.
Unrighteous people can do the right thing and still be unrighteous. Just doing right doesn't make you righteous and just doing wrong doesn't make you a sinner. Rom 7:15 Paul said "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do." I think he made it to heaven. smile

In your post, I saw that you asked the question of "which is better?" and did not answer that in your post. It was posted in such a way I couldn't be sure which side you were on for that topic. Instead of leaving it at that, I chose to clarify just in case I could be of any help in answering a question. It was not meant as an attack or to put words in your mouth or anything like that. I didn't know if it was a question you knew the answer to or not since you didn't answer it.

In the parable of The Good Samaritan, it wasn't choosing between the lesser of two evils, but the choice of doing what was right before God:

Luke 10:31 - 33 KJV:

And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.

And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.

But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,

*In regards, to the priest and the Levite, both were servants of God, but neither of those two chose to help the injured man, which would have been righteous before God if they had helped the injured man. The Samaritan, who was considered the outcast of Jewish society ended up assisting the injured man. I hope that makes more sense - any Biblical writing can be confusing at first. I only want to help you to understand and make it as clear as I can see it. smile

As far as concerning the righteous can always be righteous and the unrighteous will always be unrighteous I find to be an untrue concept and here's a few verses as to why:

Romans 3:7 - 11 KJV:

For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?

And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.

What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Romans 3:23 KJV:

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

James 2:10 KJV:

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

*In other words, The Holy Bible mentions that none of us are righteous as human beings. By ourselves, we are only sinners and some have asked for forgiveness and turned to the Lord and others haven't. A believer is not any better than a non-believer. We have all stumbled and broken the law at times and it doesn't matter what part it was because we stumble at one point and we are guilty of breaking every point in the law. We can only be perfected through God and not through ourselves. The only true righteous ones are God, Jesus, and The Holy Spirit. After all, the heart is deceitfully wicked who can know it, or as it is said - beyond cure in Jeremiah 17:9.  

[Aoife]

I have no idea what you were trying to "clear up for me" about the story. I was showing an example where they did have to choose to not do something required by the law to do something else required by the law. Not doing one was considered a "sin" even though they choose the best option. word it however you like, "greater good" "lesser sin" it's the same example.

I didn't say the righteous can always only be righteous, I said we can screw up and still be righteous. My God is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, unlike some Christians. There are many examples of people messing us and finding forgiveness, and I am not saying by ANY stretch that we should sin to make God's greatness known, lol.

Aquatic_blue

The only true righteous ones are God, Jesus, and The Holy Spirit.

God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. 2 Cor 5:21

Several times in the Bible it is said that the righteous will live by faith. That is you and I.

I will not call myself unrighteous when God has made me righteous and calls me such.

I don't disagree with much of what you say, I think perhaps you like the debate, which I understand.

Jesus didn't come to abolish the law but to fulfill it, I follow the law but if I offend I am still not judged by it any longer. (I can't recall this verse address at this moment, sorry)

I still applaud you for never lying, really. (Really!) But should you ever mess up, (in any area,) that doesn't disqualify you from the grace of God.  

[Aquatic_blue]

Aoife

I have no idea what you were trying to "clear up for me" about the story. I was showing an example where they did have to choose to not do something required by the law to do something else required by the law. Not doing one was considered a "sin" even though they choose the best option. word it however you like, "greater good" "lesser sin" it's the same example.

I didn't say the righteous can always only be righteous, I said we can screw up and still be righteous. My God is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, unlike some Christians. There are many examples of people messing us and finding forgiveness, and I am not saying by ANY stretch that we should sin to make God's greatness known, lol.

Aquatic_blue

The only true righteous ones are God, Jesus, and The Holy Spirit.

God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. 2 Cor 5:21

Several times in the Bible it is said that the righteous will live by faith. That is you and I.

I will not call myself unrighteous when God has made me righteous and calls me such.

I don't disagree with much of what you say, I think perhaps you like the debate, which I understand.

Jesus didn't come to abolish the law but to fulfill it, I follow the law but if I offend I am still not judged by it any longer. (I can't recall this verse address at this moment, sorry)

I still applaud you for never lying, really. (Really!) But should you ever mess up, (in any area,) that doesn't disqualify you from the grace of God.

I absolutely love debate topics and support debates so that everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion. Although, I will still rebuttal if I feel something is off in any way - as Christians we should always share wisdom smile

I do not understand what exactly in your post you are trying to get at. You are entitled to your own opinion and I wasn't trying to make you change, but to understand what you are trying to say better and share the wisdom I have learned along with that.  

[Aran of Vengerid]

A lie.

A lie is told with the following conditions:
The liar knows that the information is false.
The liar intends to deceive the listener/viewer.

If you believe something is true, when it is false information, it is not a lie.
This is because you believe that what you're saying presenting is true.

Therefore, you aren't lying. You are merely presenting false information.  

[ChibiHigh]

I lie all the time, especially at work sweatdrop Though I'm much more honest now than I was when I was younger I still lie; I lie to protect myself, like when a customer is hitting on me and hanging around I'll lie about my age, or I'll lie and say I'm married. ninja I do it to my coworkers too. Despite reading this thread and agreeing with some of its points, I'll probably end up saying a lie tomorrow neutral  

[Guy37]

Garland-Green

This is something that hits close to home for me. It is something I struggle with.
Not with those I don't know. I can be honest to the point of being almost brutal with someone I don't know, while someone I care for I can lie to. I do it because I feel pressured, to spare feelings. To avoid confrontations. To be accepted.
Non of these are valid reasons to lie though. A lie is a lie. There are no white ones... That is just something used to justify something to ourselves that there is no justification for. It is something that I hope God will help me overcome. Nobody wants to be a liar.

Well I can't quote any scripture about it, but think there must be a difference bettween lying to preserve someone's life and lying to scam someone out of a few bucks.  

[Guy37]

ChibiHigh

I lie all the time, especially at work sweatdrop Though I'm much more honest now than I was when I was younger I still lie; I lie to protect myself, like when a customer is hitting on me and hanging around I'll lie about my age, or I'll lie and say I'm married. ninja I do it to my coworkers too. Despite reading this thread and agreeing with some of its points, I'll probably end up saying a lie tomorrow neutral

every cute girl out in the public sphear these days really.