Ok so i was in church

[Vinsmokin]

and we were talking about not shutting people out because they do something wrong.

some chick: you dont just shut people out when they do something wrong. they need to know you dont approve of what they are doing, but you cant just shut them out. you have to give people a chance if they are going to learn.

some adult leader: thats a good way to think of it " girls name "

that chick again: take homosexuals for instance, i have homosexual friends. i make sure they know i dont think thats right, but i dont shut them out.
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the conversation was a lot longer with the gay part, but you get her context. ok, so this is open minded to most people. and that scares me, because there are so many problems with it. discuss.


Crew-member's note: Before contributing to the discussion, please be aware that hate speech directed at religious individuals will not be tolerated. For more information on our rules, please visit our sticky.  

[lilla muchi]

i would have to say as long as she doesn't stand against their happiness then her opinions to her own. i mean she may not feel its right but who's to say that it isn't. the whole learn part i think shes the one who needs to learn that love is love and holds no bounds. so the gay friends shouldn't shut her out for her mistake but merely teacher her.  

[Vinsmokin]

lilla muchi

i would have to say as long as she doesn't stand against their happiness then her opinions to her own. i mean she may not feel its right but who's to say that it isn't. the whole learn part i think shes the one who needs to learn that love is love and holds no bounds. so the gay friends shouldn't shut her out for her mistake but merely teacher her.

yeah, but im still really pissed about it. like, does she really expect them to "learn better"?  

[lilla muchi]

Lexi_Claire

lilla muchi

i would have to say as long as she doesn't stand against their happiness then her opinions to her own. i mean she may not feel its right but who's to say that it isn't. the whole learn part i think shes the one who needs to learn that love is love and holds no bounds. so the gay friends shouldn't shut her out for her mistake but merely teacher her.

yeah, but im still really pissed about it. like, does she really expect them to "learn better"?

idk to be honest though i think she needs to to learn and if anything you can help her see the error of feeling that way all the better. sounds like shes slowly coming to terms that she can't stop nor change it though and alittle push might help her see things better ^_^  

[Esiris]

I think Lillia's right- after all, I see that stuff with mono people saying poly is evil all the time, and the same with people saying being LGBT is evil- so I really do think people like that need to learn.

Although there are cases of cognitive dissonance where people think they're "good" even if they do bad things to other groups- we see it in this guild all the time with cross-marginalization, like ablism and anti-poly rhetoric when they say they're for equality.  

[lilla muchi]

weren't you told to stop.  

[Esiris]

lilla muchi

weren't you told to stop.

I wasn't really addressing you- I'm just posting about what I see. *shrugs* Ablism- where people degrade others who have DD or ID, or anti-poly stuff where lovers are told to break up because they can't possibly be happy or love each other are examples of cross marginalization- where minority groups target one another for more hatred and bigotry when they should be working for equality.

Since you mentioned that "love is love" and the Christian girl may not feel it is right, but who is she to say it isn't, and that she should learn that- I think explaining how and why people behave like that is important, which is why explaining cognitive dissonance is on topic. Having examples in this guild drives the point home that even people who think they stand for tolerance and equality can still hold those kinds of hurtful and hateful opinions, just like a Christian who says they're for love, but denies the rights of LGBT people.  

[Belethiel]

I think someone needs to tell that person that LGBT people were born that way and it wasn't a choice and they can't change at all. It's not like someone who looks at the 10 commandments one day and says, "You know, I think I'm going to stop saying 'Oh my God' to make sure I follow all of these rules," and then they stop doing it. It doesn't work like that, it is not a choice to be gay, bi, or trans. It is exactly like looking at an African-American and saying, "You should stop being so dark skinned", or telling an Auspergers kid to "Stop acting like you do and learn some social skills."

People need to learn that a gay person can't just go, "Well, I think I'm going to be attracted to women now since what I do is wrong in the eyes of my peers." It just doesn't work that way.  

[Esiris]

Belethiel

I think someone needs to tell that person that LGBT people were born that way and it wasn't a choice and they can't change at all. It's not like someone who looks at the 10 commandments one day and says, "You know, I think I'm going to stop saying 'Oh my God' to make sure I follow all of these rules," and then they stop doing it. It doesn't work like that, it is not a choice to be gay, bi, or trans. It is exactly like looking at an African-American and saying, "You should stop being so dark skinned", or telling an Auspergers kid to "Stop acting like you do and learn some social skills."

People need to learn that a gay person can't just go, "Well, I think I'm going to be attracted to women now since what I do is wrong in the eyes of my peers." It just doesn't work that way.

Very much this!
I think the problem is bigger because some people try and get around that by saying "Just don't act on it!"  

[Blackrose_Knight]

You might want to point your friend at this guy John Shore or my fav non douchy pro-gay Christian blogger.  

[Matasoga]

The world is changing. Soon it will no longer be a "Conservative" view that gay marriage should be illegal, but a regressive one. The religious will be the last to change. We have evidence, throughout history, that the last to change will always be those who believe that they answer only to a higher, unearthly power, are capable of the most unspeakable of atrocities. Fortunately, all they can do now, is protest civil rights... And they will, for years to come. The worst of them for decades. The religious are always the last to change.  

[Belethiel]

Esiris

Belethiel

I think someone needs to tell that person that LGBT people were born that way and it wasn't a choice and they can't change at all. It's not like someone who looks at the 10 commandments one day and says, "You know, I think I'm going to stop saying 'Oh my God' to make sure I follow all of these rules," and then they stop doing it. It doesn't work like that, it is not a choice to be gay, bi, or trans. It is exactly like looking at an African-American and saying, "You should stop being so dark skinned", or telling an Auspergers kid to "Stop acting like you do and learn some social skills."

People need to learn that a gay person can't just go, "Well, I think I'm going to be attracted to women now since what I do is wrong in the eyes of my peers." It just doesn't work that way.

Very much this!
I think the problem is bigger because some people try and get around that by saying "Just don't act on it!"

How can you not? Just not love anybody you're attracted to and want to be with?

And really, since when do you choose to be straight? I didn't, I've always been heterosexual. :l I can't be turned gay, gay people can't be turned straight. Simple as that.  

[BSPBleach]

wow. it is true that is open-minded for most people against homosexuality.......and i'd be pissed about it.

but also glad. at least if people against gays moved up to this point, you wouldn't have kids commiting suicide or getting kicked out of their homes, living on the street, doing who knows what. theoretically.  

[cvbkfgbkjmgbcj]

Belethiel

Esiris

Belethiel

I think someone needs to tell that person that LGBT people were born that way and it wasn't a choice and they can't change at all. It's not like someone who looks at the 10 commandments one day and says, "You know, I think I'm going to stop saying 'Oh my God' to make sure I follow all of these rules," and then they stop doing it. It doesn't work like that, it is not a choice to be gay, bi, or trans. It is exactly like looking at an African-American and saying, "You should stop being so dark skinned", or telling an Auspergers kid to "Stop acting like you do and learn some social skills."

People need to learn that a gay person can't just go, "Well, I think I'm going to be attracted to women now since what I do is wrong in the eyes of my peers." It just doesn't work that way.

Very much this!
I think the problem is bigger because some people try and get around that by saying "Just don't act on it!"

How can you not? Just not love anybody you're attracted to and want to be with?

And really, since when do you choose to be straight? I didn't, I've always been heterosexual. :l I can't be turned gay, gay people can't be turned straight. Simple as that.

ahem although it should be mentioned that some studies have found that sexuality is more fluid in women than in men and can change or fluctuate throughout a woman's lifetime. this is *not* to say that these changes are voluntary or could be forced.  

[Coyote_Cain]

Lexi_Claire

I think you're perfectly right to be pissed off, as it perpetuates the idea that being gay is a behaviour people choose, what they need to realise is, its something you're born with as much as your race.

I wouldn't have been able to keep quiet, and that fact that her opinions were lauded as correct and kindly ,sickens me.

Religious people are swine which need to be culled (not literally) when it comes to their archaic view points, and this proves exactly why.