[A] wingless Angeni

[JetAlmeara]

I don't know if we can start adding realism into the RP/Backstories at this point however cause well...there are a lot of Soq out there with RP's and stories that 'normal' horses wouldn't be able to survive or handle. I mean there is a Soq out there with his heart hanging out and dragging on the ground just as an example soo...  

[mindsend]

The official rules that all the staff has gone over on several occasions, the last time being when we confirmed angenicorn being the only hybrid allowed domains but what was required for the hybrid to be allowed a domain, we had confirmed that Angenicorns and pure angeni have to have all four wings to get a domain.

The headwings and leg wings are optional and not required for pure, and neither are the cloven hooves.

So no, you cannot custom them to be wingless and still have a domain.

And I've always given out marking versions with the closest wings missing (Backwings on to show its not a regular) though it was Felmino that told me I really shouldnt cert the wing removed version. But that was not to show them without wings, but rather to show markings and is NOT canon and not allowed to be used as "has no wings/can make wings vanish" but is purely for breeding purposes to show off the accessories and markings that were hidden by the wings.

And buttwings are a mutation, and the staff had voted a while back last year that they're not allowed on full sized soquili because they felt it should be a Mini-trait.
@Kamiki: About Yurei -- she has a hair tail and cloven hooves. She was a half unicorn even without the horn and while you can RP that the horn was removed, she still doesnt have the healing powers.

Which relates to the domain issue as in since Summed up could STILL get a half angeni with no wings who is a jokester and comedian, HOWEVER they would not be allowed the powers given to them by the domain.

If you get one with wings, you COULD RP that they lost their wings and still have the domain, but you wouldnt be able to get the scarred and wingless version, at least by current rules. IF the wingless version was allowed, it'd be an "RP Only" but isn't currently allowed.  

[Kamiki]

@Mind: Just out of curiosity for RP:

If someone were to get a pure Angeni (wings and all) and they were removed via roleplay (even if that is a stretch as Puu brought up, but just for arguments sake..) - would the Angeni ICly lose its powers, like a unicorn loses its healing ability if its horn gets broken/removed? Are their powers/domain dictated by their wings, or their breed as a whole?

On the flip side: If someone got a wingless Angeni halfbreed in customs, and it didn't have a domain/powers - could they claim for RP purposes that they were BORN a pure Angeni and then lost their wings for whatever reason. When you customed the Soquili could you ask for the scars?

(this could apply to other breeds at well, such as winds/reguars etc).  

[JetAlmeara]

That's really unfortunate since I think this would have been a great RP character.  

[mindsend]

Kamiki

@Mind: Just out of curiosity for RP:

If someone where to get a pure Angeni (wings and all) and they were removed via roleplay (even if that is a stretch as Puu brought up, but just for arguments sake..) - would the Angeni ICly lose its powers, like a unicorn loses its healing ability if its horn gets broken/removed? Are their powers/domain dictated by their wings, or their breed as a whole?

On the flip side: If someone got a wingless Angeni halfbreed in customs, and it didn't have a domain/powers - could they claim for RP purposes that they were BORN a pure Angeni and then lost their wings for whatever reason. When you customed the Soquili could you ask for the scars?

(this could apply to other breeds at well, such as winds/reguars etc).

THAT would have to be figured out with Uta, since she's the RP manager, so I'll point her this way when She gets on.  

[ProphetOfProfit]

Kamiki

IMHO it wouldn't be a "half Angeni" if it was ICly born with wings, but then they were cut off. Again, there's precedent with Yurei: she's a unicorn even though she doesn't have a horn, because it was forcibly removed from her. Just like a hippogryph wouldn't suddenly become a halfbreed if a skinwalker bit off his beak in RP.

Now, Yurei did loose her ability to heal when she lost her horn since their magic is tied to it. I would be curious as to if, ICly, an Angeni looses its domain/magic if it looses its wings. /curious

Thank you kamaki.  

[ProphetOfProfit]

JetAlmeara

I don't know if we can start adding realism into the RP/Backstories at this point however cause well...there are a lot of Soq out there with RP's and stories that 'normal' horses wouldn't be able to survive or handle. I mean there is a Soq out there with his heart hanging out and dragging on the ground just as an example soo...

Agreed.  

[mindsend]

According to Uta, angeni do not lose their powers if for some reason they lose their wings. HOWEVER you have to buy them WITH the wings to be considered pure, since that is what the Colorists will be using for Breeding AND what we use to insure they are a pure (or domained angenicorn) and thus allowed to have domains.

Basically, you can still RP them as having lost their wings, but once you start RPing them without wings, you cant change your mind and make them have wings. You're just going to have to use your imagination to have your characters the way you want them, since you can either have the domains or you can have them wingless on the cert. You can use your imagination, though to be honest I really don't understand the reasoning for it, they are your ponies. You just have to follow the same rules everyone else does when it comes to domains, that's all.

Edit: I'm the TL;DR version of Uta *puts on sunglasses* Read hers first please lol!  

[Uta]

All right. . .

So, I had some discussion with other staff, and this is the final answer/ruling. While it is possible for a pure, domained angeni to have its wings removed or taken off or ripped out. . . whatever. . . . in RP. . .

You still need to have the angeni bought with its double set of wings. The reasoning behind this is because of a few things.

1. The domained angeni had, at one point, been BORN with both sets of wings. And even if they are removed in the RP, should that wingless angeni ever breed, its children will likely inherit some aspect of those wings. So for a colorists sake, it would be good to show what those wings initially looked like. Furthermore, a lot of colorists don't pay attention to RP -- so if they see a wingless angeni, they may very well assume it's a half-breed. And even if you do make note that they once had wings, it still might be forgotten or overlooked and the kids might come out wingless too.

2. It might be confusing. I know, I know, you're like "you're talking gibberish Uta" but it's true. Someone might see that you have a domained angeni scars where its wings might be, but some new faces might not put two-and-two together, might not read the RP, and might not realize that it once had wings, and then we might see a new series or fad of angeni without wings. And that too will be difficult to keep track of as noting 'this is not a half-breed' etc. etc.

3. This way does not break the current standard of rules that were made by prior staff. So it's not in breach of what Mind stated staff had discussed previously, and we're not changing rules yet again for exceptions.

You can RP the soquili as having its wings removed, but to avoid confusion with newbies, colorists, and just having people assume it's a half-breed, you'll just need to note that ICly it does not have wings and use your imagination.

If you do decide to RP it as wingless though, the Skinwalker Rule will be applied though. Once you start RPing an angeni as wingless, you absolutely CANNOT change your mind about it not having its wings anymore, or do a ton of backdated stuff. Like cursed walkers, once they are RPed as cursed, you can't go back and change or focus heavily on its pre-cursed days. In this case, it's winged days.

(Its why my Chander, though he HAS a cursed form, as the RP has not happened in which will curse him, I still write him as a regular; but the minute I DO curse him, I can't write him as a regular again or do backdated stuff.)

This IS staff's final answer. I'm sorry if it seems silly, but we did think about it, did discuss it, and for ease of confusion we just ask you to buy the winged angeni, and just inform folks that he is written as wingless.  

[Kamiki]

@Uta: I can certainly see the reasoning behind it. I mostly was just curious for IC reasons. And it makes sense, you're not talking jibberish XD  

[Kamiki]

I DO have a follow up questions, just to be annoying, lol Not really just to be annoying, I'm kind of intrigued by the idea now.

If you purchased a Soquili as a halfbreed (Angeni, or any breed, say, like a Kalona, just as an example) and you WANTED scars were the wings should have/would have gone, is there any reason that wouldn't be allowed? Obviously in an Angeni situation there would be no domain, but for our Kalona example just for RP/IC purposes?

Or would you still have to get the winged version upon acquisition for the whole breeding aspect? Or could you choose to custom the wingless version w/scars but know you're giving up any possibility of that trait carrying on? (Soquili breed Lamarkist anyway, considering non-genetic stuff passes down as is...)

 

[mindsend]

It's only really an issue for Angeni with Domains having no wings, since that combination is NOT allowed in the shop due to the restrictions on domains. Meanwhile your Kalona example would be a halfbreed in breedings and on the cert but RP wise could have originally been a full blood and lost their wings.


So really, there IS no issue in buying a Kalona halfbreed and having scars where the wings were rather than actual wings.

There maaay be some issues with buying a regular and claiming it's a wind, because of the price differences and the fact there is no such thing as a halfwind, so that wouldn't be allowed.

A Flutter could get little tattered bug-wings customed on to claim it.

A hippogryph could lose its wings, and just have its claws and beak or even be a halfgryph to begin with and THEN be RPed to have lost its wings at some point before the RP, but they have to have hippogryph traits.  

[ProphetOfProfit]

Sweet allrightly thank you smile  

[Andranis]

And now for me to be annoying... xd ;; Based somewhat on Kamiki's question there, except about an actual Wind... Because I didn't think it needed to be its own thread since it's related to the present question(s)...

If one were to pay full price for a custom Wind, but ICly their wings were removed, so there'd be scarring... Could there be two images? One with the wings, purely for breeding purposes, and one without wings but scarring where the wings were? So they'd still technically be a Wind, complete with the price paid for a Wind, but their wings were lost. Sort of like... Skinwalkers with peltless versions purely for breeding/sig purposes. A version with wings to show that it IS a Wind, but that's it - Otherwise it'd be a wind who lost their wings.

This is more me being curious, because the character in question's mate, while also a winged horse, has several family members who have no wings, so even if it's a no-go on the 'wind losing wings considered a wind still' thing, wingless babies popping up would still hold logic for the family for me heart  

[Roarie Desu]

There is a one winged, scarred wind made by Sabin. I remember him from an event awhile back. Is that guy perhaps where the idea came from?