Calvinism

[ChristDied Dot Com]

"I don't understand Election" Paul Washer answers

Jeff Noblit
Election: Pure and Simple

What We Believe About the Five Points of Calvinism by John Piper

Are There Two Wills in God?
Divine Election and God's Desire for All to Be Saved by John Piper

Romans 9 Exegesis by James White  

[Garland-Green]

It seems only fair that we also write about Arminianism, since they are opposite approaches. So I will in a couple of posts lay out the differences and the history behind with various links. smile I believe the true approach is somewhere in between Calvinism and Arminianism that each taken to its extreme is a wrong direction and could lead to both ineffective sharing of the gospel, and a fear of losing redemption for those already saved . It is great by the way that you use this sub-forum. I wish more people would use it.  

[Garland-Green]

Arminianism

Free-will or human ability. Although human nature was seriously affected by the fall, man has not been left in a state of total spiritual helplessness. God graciously enables every sinner to repent and believe but does not interfere with man’s freedom. Each sinner possesses a free will, and his eternal destiny depends on how he uses it. Man’s freedom consists in his ability to choose good over evil in spiritual matters; his will is not enslaved to his sinful nature. The sinner has the power to either cooperate with God’s Spirit and be regenerated or resist God’s grace and perish. The lost sinner needs the Spirit’s assistance but he does not have to be regenerated by the Spirit before he can believe, for faith is man’s act and precedes the new birth. Faith is the sinner’s gift to God; it is man’s contribution to salvation.
Conditional election. God’s choice of certain individuals unto salvation before the foundation of the world was based upon His foreseeing that they would respond to His call. He selected only those whom He knew would of themselves freely believe the Gospel. Election therefore was determined by or conditioned upon what man would do. The faith which God foresaw, and upon which He based His choice, was not given to the sinner by God (it was not created by the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit) but resulted solely from man’s will. It was left entirely up to man as to who would believe and therefore as to who would be elected unto salvation. God chose those whom He knew would, of their own free will, choose Christ. Thus the sinner’s choice of Christ—not God’s choice of the sinner—is the ultimate cause of salvation.
Universal redemption or general atonement. Christ’s redeeming work made it possible for everyone to be saved but did not actually secure the salvation of anyone. Although Christ died for all men and for every man, only those who believe on Him are saved. His death enabled God to pardon sinners on the condition that they believe, but it did not actually put away anyone’s sins. Christ’s redemption becomes effective only if man chooses to accept it.
The Holy Spirit can be effectually resisted. The Spirit calls inwardly all those who are called outwardly by the gospel invitation. He does all that He can to bring every sinner to salvation. But inasmuch as man is free, he can successfully resist the Spirit’s call. The Spirit cannot regenerate the sinner until he believes; faith (which is man’s contribution) precedes and makes possible the new birth. Thus, man’s free will limits the Spirit in the application of Christ’s saving work. The Holy Spirit can only draw to Christ those who allow Him to have His way with them. Until the sinner responds, the Spirit cannot give life. God’s grace, therefore, is not invincible; it can be— and often is—resisted and thwarted by man.
Falling from grace. Those who believe and are truly saved can lose their salvation by failing to keep up their faith, etc. All Arminians have not been agreed on this point; some have held that believers are eternally secure in Christ, that once a sinner is regenerated, he can never be lost.
According to Arminianism, salvation is accomplished through the combined efforts of God (who takes the initiative) and man (who must respond); man’s response being the determining factor. God has provided salvation for everyone, but His provision becomes effective only for those who, of their own free will, choose to cooperate with Him and accept His offer of grace. At the crucial point, man’s will plays a decisive role; thus man, not God, determines who will be recipients of the gift of salvation.

The Five Points of Calvinism

Total inability or total depravity. Because of the fall, man is unable of himself to savingly believe the Gospel. The sinner is dead, blind and deaf to the things of God; his heart is deceitful and desperately corrupt. His will is not free; it is in bondage to his evil nature; therefore, he will not—indeed he cannot—choose good over evil in the spiritual realm. Consequently it takes much more than the Spirit’s assistance to bring a sinner to Christ—it takes regeneration, by which the Spirit makes the sinner alive and gives him a new nature. Faith is not something man contributes to salvation but is itself a part of God’s gift of salvation; it is God’s gift to the sinner, not the sinner’s gift to God.
Unconditional election. God’s choice of certain individuals unto salvation before the foundation of the world rested solely in His own sovereign will. His choice of particular sinners was not based on any foreseen response of obedience on their part, such as faith, repentance, etc. On the contrary, God gives faith and repentance to each individual whom He selected. These acts are the result, not the cause, of God’s choice. Election therefore was not determined by or conditioned upon any virtuous quality or act foreseen in man. Those whom God sovereignly elected He brings through the power of the Spirit to a willing acceptance of Christ. Thus God’s choice of the sinner—not the sinner’s choice of Christ—is the ultimate cause of salvation.
Particular redemption or limited atonement. Christ’s redeeming work was intended to save the elect only, and actually secured salvation for them. His death was the substitutionary endurance of the penalty of sin in the place of certain specified sinners. In addition to putting away the sins of His people, Christ’s redemption secured everything necessary for their salvation; including faith which unites them to Him. The gift of faith is infallibly applied by the Spirit to all for whom Christ died, therefore guaranteeing their salvation.
The efficacious call of the Spirit or Irresistible Grace. In addition to the outward general call to salvation (which is made to everyone who hears the Gospel), the Holy Spirit extends to the elect a special inward call that inevitably brings them to salvation. The external call (which is made to all without distinction) can be—and often is—rejected; whereas the internal call (which is made only to the elect) cannot be rejected; it always results in conversion. By means of this special call, the Spirit irresistibly draws sinners to Christ. He is not limited in His work of applying salvation by man’s will, nor is He dependent upon man’s cooperation for success. The Spirit graciously causes the elect sinner to cooperate, to believe, to repent, to come freely and willingly to Christ. God’s grace, therefore, is invincible; it never fails to result in the salvation of those to whom it is extended.
Perseverance of the saints. All who are chosen by God, redeemed by Christ, and given faith by the Spirit are eternally saved. They are kept in faith by the power of Almighty God and thus persevere to the end.  

[Garland-Green]

John Calvin

Jacobus Arminius

Weaknesses of Arminianism

Weaknesses of Calvinism  

[ChristDied Dot Com]

Thank you for your posts and your input, sir. From what I've read of the Weaknesses of Calvinism article so far, the links I posted seem to answer most of these objections, if not all of them. I have heard people say that Calvinism may affect the sharing of the Gospel and I suppose one could say that. For myself, personally, it has not seemed to affect me (I like to evangelize very much) and truly, I wonder how much such a problem would actually be a lack of wanting to obey God on our end, more than the effect of believing Calvinism.

When I was younger in the faith, I pretty much believed an amalgamation of Calvinism and Arminianism. I mean, I didn't know anything about the terms or definitions or any of that, but some of the things they teach. I had learned these from just a straight read through of the Bible on my own, as well. I didn't (still don't, sadly) have a church or anyone to teach me then. So many people were claiming so many things, and tossing up verses, and it's like "Whoa! Hold up. I'm just gonna read the Bible on my own, the whole thing, and see what it says".

I finished the Bible, and then, I still had so many questions (though when I first read Romans 9, that just solidified election for me) and I knew so many guys said so many different things, and so, I prayed to the Lord to lead me to a teacher, someone who wouldn't mislead me. I believe it was that same day, I came across brother Paul Washer. One of the first things I believe I heard him preaching on was in the Shocking Youth Message, Matthew 7. I was like "Finally! Someone else is saying this! This is what I've been telling people"!

The more I have been learning, the more I am gradually becoming more Calvinist. It seems I probably believe all 5 points now. Many things I thought before, from my own reading, when I have looked over again, in context, and comparing other Scripture? It has turned out that Calvinism seems true. Nevertheless, truly, I am a man, and I can be wrong. I pray that God leads us into truth, anyone and everyone who comes into this thread, because what His Word says? That's what matters.

Thank you for bearing with me and reading this, anyone who has. Thank you again for your posts, brother Garland. Take care, and God bless you all.  

[Garland-Green]

Micah Seven Eighteen

Thank you for your posts and your input, sir. From what I've read of the Weaknesses of Calvinism article so far, the links I posted seem to answer most of these objections, if not all of them. I have heard people say that Calvinism may affect the sharing of the Gospel and I suppose one could say that. For myself, personally, it has not seemed to affect me (I like to evangelize very much) and truly, I wonder how much such a problem would actually be a lack of wanting to obey God on our end, more than the effect of believing Calvinism.

When I was younger in the faith, I pretty much believed an amalgamation of Calvinism and Arminianism. I mean, I didn't know anything about the terms or definitions or any of that, but some of the things they teach. I had learned these from just a straight read through of the Bible on my own, as well. I didn't (still don't, sadly) have a church or anyone to teach me then. So many people were claiming so many things, and tossing up verses, and it's like "Whoa! Hold up. I'm just gonna read the Bible on my own, the whole thing, and see what it says".

I finished the Bible, and then, I still had so many questions (though when I first read Romans 9, that just solidified election for me) and I knew so many guys said so many different things, and so, I prayed to the Lord to lead me to a teacher, someone who wouldn't mislead me. I believe it was that same day, I came across brother Paul Washer. One of the first things I believe I heard him preaching on was in the Shocking Youth Message, Matthew 7. I was like "Finally! Someone else is saying this! This is what I've been telling people"!

The more I have been learning, the more I am gradually becoming more Calvinist. It seems I probably believe all 5 points now. Many things I thought before, from my own reading, when I have looked over again, in context, and comparing other Scripture? It has turned out that Calvinism seems true. Nevertheless, truly, I am a man, and I can be wrong. I pray that God leads us into truth, anyone and everyone who comes into this thread, because what His Word says? That's what matters.

Thank you for bearing with me and reading this, anyone who has. Thank you again for your posts, brother Garland. Take care, and God bless you all.

Agreed! His word is what matters! God bless you too brother,
and thank you for your posts. biggrin I will be praying for you that you find a good church. 3nodding  

[ChristDied Dot Com]

Garland-Green

Micah Seven Eighteen

Thank you for your posts and your input, sir. From what I've read of the Weaknesses of Calvinism article so far, the links I posted seem to answer most of these objections, if not all of them. I have heard people say that Calvinism may affect the sharing of the Gospel and I suppose one could say that. For myself, personally, it has not seemed to affect me (I like to evangelize very much) and truly, I wonder how much such a problem would actually be a lack of wanting to obey God on our end, more than the effect of believing Calvinism.

When I was younger in the faith, I pretty much believed an amalgamation of Calvinism and Arminianism. I mean, I didn't know anything about the terms or definitions or any of that, but some of the things they teach. I had learned these from just a straight read through of the Bible on my own, as well. I didn't (still don't, sadly) have a church or anyone to teach me then. So many people were claiming so many things, and tossing up verses, and it's like "Whoa! Hold up. I'm just gonna read the Bible on my own, the whole thing, and see what it says".

I finished the Bible, and then, I still had so many questions (though when I first read Romans 9, that just solidified election for me) and I knew so many guys said so many different things, and so, I prayed to the Lord to lead me to a teacher, someone who wouldn't mislead me. I believe it was that same day, I came across brother Paul Washer. One of the first things I believe I heard him preaching on was in the Shocking Youth Message, Matthew 7. I was like "Finally! Someone else is saying this! This is what I've been telling people"!

The more I have been learning, the more I am gradually becoming more Calvinist. It seems I probably believe all 5 points now. Many things I thought before, from my own reading, when I have looked over again, in context, and comparing other Scripture? It has turned out that Calvinism seems true. Nevertheless, truly, I am a man, and I can be wrong. I pray that God leads us into truth, anyone and everyone who comes into this thread, because what His Word says? That's what matters.

Thank you for bearing with me and reading this, anyone who has. Thank you again for your posts, brother Garland. Take care, and God bless you all.

Agreed! His word is what matters! God bless you too brother,
and thank you for your posts. biggrin I will be praying for you that you find a good church. 3nodding

Thank you for your prayers, brother. It means a lot. If you're willing to, would you also pray that the Lord would give me a job; that He would put me where He wants me to be, for His glory?  

[Garland-Green]

Micah Seven Eighteen

Garland-Green

Micah Seven Eighteen

Thank you for your posts and your input, sir. From what I've read of the Weaknesses of Calvinism article so far, the links I posted seem to answer most of these objections, if not all of them. I have heard people say that Calvinism may affect the sharing of the Gospel and I suppose one could say that. For myself, personally, it has not seemed to affect me (I like to evangelize very much) and truly, I wonder how much such a problem would actually be a lack of wanting to obey God on our end, more than the effect of believing Calvinism.

When I was younger in the faith, I pretty much believed an amalgamation of Calvinism and Arminianism. I mean, I didn't know anything about the terms or definitions or any of that, but some of the things they teach. I had learned these from just a straight read through of the Bible on my own, as well. I didn't (still don't, sadly) have a church or anyone to teach me then. So many people were claiming so many things, and tossing up verses, and it's like "Whoa! Hold up. I'm just gonna read the Bible on my own, the whole thing, and see what it says".

I finished the Bible, and then, I still had so many questions (though when I first read Romans 9, that just solidified election for me) and I knew so many guys said so many different things, and so, I prayed to the Lord to lead me to a teacher, someone who wouldn't mislead me. I believe it was that same day, I came across brother Paul Washer. One of the first things I believe I heard him preaching on was in the Shocking Youth Message, Matthew 7. I was like "Finally! Someone else is saying this! This is what I've been telling people"!

The more I have been learning, the more I am gradually becoming more Calvinist. It seems I probably believe all 5 points now. Many things I thought before, from my own reading, when I have looked over again, in context, and comparing other Scripture? It has turned out that Calvinism seems true. Nevertheless, truly, I am a man, and I can be wrong. I pray that God leads us into truth, anyone and everyone who comes into this thread, because what His Word says? That's what matters.

Thank you for bearing with me and reading this, anyone who has. Thank you again for your posts, brother Garland. Take care, and God bless you all.

Agreed! His word is what matters! God bless you too brother,
and thank you for your posts. biggrin I will be praying for you that you find a good church. 3nodding

Thank you for your prayers, brother. It means a lot. If you're willing to, would you also pray that the Lord would give me a job; that He would put me where He wants me to be, for His glory?

^^ I will pray for that too.  

[ChristDied Dot Com]

Garland-Green

Micah Seven Eighteen

Garland-Green

Micah Seven Eighteen

Thank you for your posts and your input, sir. From what I've read of the Weaknesses of Calvinism article so far, the links I posted seem to answer most of these objections, if not all of them. I have heard people say that Calvinism may affect the sharing of the Gospel and I suppose one could say that. For myself, personally, it has not seemed to affect me (I like to evangelize very much) and truly, I wonder how much such a problem would actually be a lack of wanting to obey God on our end, more than the effect of believing Calvinism.

When I was younger in the faith, I pretty much believed an amalgamation of Calvinism and Arminianism. I mean, I didn't know anything about the terms or definitions or any of that, but some of the things they teach. I had learned these from just a straight read through of the Bible on my own, as well. I didn't (still don't, sadly) have a church or anyone to teach me then. So many people were claiming so many things, and tossing up verses, and it's like "Whoa! Hold up. I'm just gonna read the Bible on my own, the whole thing, and see what it says".

I finished the Bible, and then, I still had so many questions (though when I first read Romans 9, that just solidified election for me) and I knew so many guys said so many different things, and so, I prayed to the Lord to lead me to a teacher, someone who wouldn't mislead me. I believe it was that same day, I came across brother Paul Washer. One of the first things I believe I heard him preaching on was in the Shocking Youth Message, Matthew 7. I was like "Finally! Someone else is saying this! This is what I've been telling people"!

The more I have been learning, the more I am gradually becoming more Calvinist. It seems I probably believe all 5 points now. Many things I thought before, from my own reading, when I have looked over again, in context, and comparing other Scripture? It has turned out that Calvinism seems true. Nevertheless, truly, I am a man, and I can be wrong. I pray that God leads us into truth, anyone and everyone who comes into this thread, because what His Word says? That's what matters.

Thank you for bearing with me and reading this, anyone who has. Thank you again for your posts, brother Garland. Take care, and God bless you all.

Agreed! His word is what matters! God bless you too brother,
and thank you for your posts. biggrin I will be praying for you that you find a good church. 3nodding

Thank you for your prayers, brother. It means a lot. If you're willing to, would you also pray that the Lord would give me a job; that He would put me where He wants me to be, for His glory?

^^ I will pray for that too.

I have an interview tomorrow at a temp service. God willing, I'll get in. Thank you again for your prayers, and if you're still willing to pray? Thank you in advance for any more prayers. I appreciate it. Take care, and God bless you, sir.  

[Garland-Green]

Micah Seven Eighteen

Garland-Green

Micah Seven Eighteen

Garland-Green

Micah Seven Eighteen

Thank you for your posts and your input, sir. From what I've read of the Weaknesses of Calvinism article so far, the links I posted seem to answer most of these objections, if not all of them. I have heard people say that Calvinism may affect the sharing of the Gospel and I suppose one could say that. For myself, personally, it has not seemed to affect me (I like to evangelize very much) and truly, I wonder how much such a problem would actually be a lack of wanting to obey God on our end, more than the effect of believing Calvinism.

When I was younger in the faith, I pretty much believed an amalgamation of Calvinism and Arminianism. I mean, I didn't know anything about the terms or definitions or any of that, but some of the things they teach. I had learned these from just a straight read through of the Bible on my own, as well. I didn't (still don't, sadly) have a church or anyone to teach me then. So many people were claiming so many things, and tossing up verses, and it's like "Whoa! Hold up. I'm just gonna read the Bible on my own, the whole thing, and see what it says".

I finished the Bible, and then, I still had so many questions (though when I first read Romans 9, that just solidified election for me) and I knew so many guys said so many different things, and so, I prayed to the Lord to lead me to a teacher, someone who wouldn't mislead me. I believe it was that same day, I came across brother Paul Washer. One of the first things I believe I heard him preaching on was in the Shocking Youth Message, Matthew 7. I was like "Finally! Someone else is saying this! This is what I've been telling people"!

The more I have been learning, the more I am gradually becoming more Calvinist. It seems I probably believe all 5 points now. Many things I thought before, from my own reading, when I have looked over again, in context, and comparing other Scripture? It has turned out that Calvinism seems true. Nevertheless, truly, I am a man, and I can be wrong. I pray that God leads us into truth, anyone and everyone who comes into this thread, because what His Word says? That's what matters.

Thank you for bearing with me and reading this, anyone who has. Thank you again for your posts, brother Garland. Take care, and God bless you all.

Agreed! His word is what matters! God bless you too brother,
and thank you for your posts. biggrin I will be praying for you that you find a good church. 3nodding

Thank you for your prayers, brother. It means a lot. If you're willing to, would you also pray that the Lord would give me a job; that He would put me where He wants me to be, for His glory?

^^ I will pray for that too.

I have an interview tomorrow at a temp service. God willing, I'll get in. Thank you again for your prayers, and if you're still willing to pray? Thank you in advance for any more prayers. I appreciate it. Take care, and God bless you, sir.

I am always willing to pray. smile Keep us posted on how things goes.
You take care as well, and God bless you my brother.