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 Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:16 pm
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Why most Churches of Christ are cults:
1. The often claim to be the only true christians, and the only way to get to Heaven.
2. Most branches lie about their church history, by claiming that they can trace it all the way back to the day of Pentecost in the second chapter of Acts. They also tend to mislead others about what they truly believe instead of saying what they do believe up front.
3. They often claim to be the one and only "Body of Christ."
4. Salvation occurs to them when you do what you're supposed to do in church (commonly men and women have different roles), and when you are baptized - that's when it all "truly begins".
Why do I say "most" Churches of Christs are cults?
The reason for this is I have not been to every single Church of Christ there is, but every Church of Christ member I have been around - I notice the cult behaviors are present.
Not every doctrine by them is the same. There are many different branches of the Church of Christ denomination. Some of the names may be similar, but they have slightly different beliefs.
*There is one branch considered the "One Cup Brethren", which have no musical instruments in their worship service and one shared cup for communion (meaning everyone drinks out of the same cup that sometimes appears to be a chalice).
*The other branch is known as "Cups Brethren", and they have no musical instruments, and have multiple cups for the communion portion of the service. Known by others as the "Digressive Church of Christ".
*The other branch called the "Instrumental Brethren" have multiple cups and musical instruments. This branch is also refered to as the "Liberal Church of Christ".
*Another branch of the CHOCD has changed it's name to the
International Church of Christ or ICOC.
*There are most likely many other branches, these are the main 4 listed above.
(I have been to a One Cup Brethren and Cups Brethren branch of Church of Christ as a note).
Facts, History, and brief summary of beliefs of the Church of Christ
The church history of this group isn't immediately clear because it is often lied about. Many Churches of Christ claim
that they can trace their church history all the way back to the original New Testament Church. This is simply untrue.
The true history about the Church of Christ denomination is below from
http://web.archive.org/web/20060829153200/http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/restor2.htm
I. Group Profile
Name: Churches of Christ
Founder: Alexander Campbell, died in 1866.
Date of Birth: 1788
Birth Place: County Down, Ireland
Year Founded: 1906
Brief History:
Alexander Campbell gathered followers in 1810 after he arrived in America preaching a new way of primitivism apart from any organized religion. He followed in the footsteps of his father, Thomas Campbell who had split from the Presbyterian church and advocated Christian unity based on the New Testament. Alexander reshaped some of his father's ideas, and in 1832 his followers joined with Barton W. Stone's and began the Stone-Campbell movement (Eliade, 1987: 34); however, this group stayed together less than a century before splitting. Those associated with Campbell denied Stone's ideas of premillennialism. (Hughes, 1996: 115) Tension rose in 1849 with the formation of the American Christian Mission Society. (Tyler, 1894: 161) Many Campbellites felt that this was yet another unBiblically structured organization that they needed to flee from and that should not be accepted. Finally in 1906 each was declared its own sect: the churches of Christ under Alexander Campbell's original ideas and the Christian Churches, or Disciples of Christ, under Stone. (Hughes, 1996: 115) The Churches of Christ were purposefully not capitalized in order to emphasize the fact that they are not a structured group with any kind of head organization. Divisions within the Restoration Movement over many different issues followed this initial split. (Melton, 1996: 477)
Sacred or Revered Texts: Bible - specifically the New Testament
Cult or Sect:
Negative sentiments are typically implied when the concepts "cult" and "sect" are employed in popular discourse. Since the Religious Movements Homepage seeks to promote religious tolerance and appreciation of the positive benefits of pluralism and religious diversity in human cultures, we encourage the use of alternative concepts that do not carry implicit negative stereotypes. For a more detailed discussion of both scholarly and popular usage of the concepts "cult" and "sect," please visit our Conceptualizing "Cult" and "Sect" page, where you will find additional links to related issues.
Size of Group: over 2,000,000 (http://church-of-christ.org/)
II. Beliefs of the Group
The Churches of Christ have been considered the conservative wing of the Restoration movement. Although postmillennialism was once an idea that set this group apart, this is just one of many topics that tends to create factions within the church. The churches of Christ have been split into different groups according to these varying beliefs. (Melton, 1996: 479) A major division is that between the Non-Instrumental Church of Christ and the instrumental Christian Church/Churches of Christ. While some argue that they should not use musical instruments in worship because they are not described in the New Testament, others feel they are at liberty to use them due to instrument use described in the Old Testament, such as the Biblical character, David, who danced with a tamborine. (Melton, 1996: 476-47 cool
Another main division occurs between the Churches of Christ and the Disciples of Christ regarding the use of missionary organizations. Many non-instrumental Churches of Christ believe that there should be no headquarters for missions, but that money should be raised individually. Their claim goes back to the idea of no formal organization. (Melton, 1996: 476-47 cool
Views on women's roles in the church have varied across all the church boundaries as well. The more conservative churches, mainly the Churches of Christ, tend to exclude women from leadership activities during worship. For example, many churches do not allow women to lead prayers or serve communion. This is changing in some areas where churches are accepting women's involvement. This has potential to cause another division within the organization depending on the beliefs of the members in the specific congregations. Due to the extensive overlapping of beliefs among the schisms, it is difficult to make clear distinct boundaries between them.
Although Alexander Campbell formed this group based on the idea of achieving unity among followers of God, the group has shaped into an exclusive branch due to the fact that they believe that all the denominations around them are incorrect in their teaching. The idea of no formal structure is still central to their thinking. They stand firmly to the idea to speak where the Bible speaks, and remain silent where it does so. (Jorgenson, 1989: 129)
III. Links to Churches of Christ Web Sites
Who are the Churches of Christ?
This is a great site that offers brief answers to 19 questions about the Churches of Christ, including information on the structure and historical background of the church, and explanations of many of their beliefs regarding such issues as baptism, communion, predestination, and music.
http://www.church-of-christ.org/church-of-christ/coc.html
Church-of-Christ.org
This site, available in eight different languages, offers information on current news in the Churches of Christ, including a description of all their supported missions, online Bibles, Internet Bible studies, discussion groups, and a directory of the Churches of Christ.
http://church-of-christ.org/
IV. Bibliography
Eliade, Mircea. 1987.
The Encyclopedia of Religion. Volume 3. New York: MacMillian Publishing Co. p: 34.
Hughes, Richard T. 1996.
Reviving the Ancient Faith: The Story of Churches of Christ in America. Grand Rapids: Wm B. Eerdmans Publishing Co.
Jorgenson, Dale A. 1989.
Theological and Aesthetic Roots in the Stone-Campbell Movement. Kirksville: The Thomas Jefferson University Press.
Melton, J. Gordon. 1996.
Encyclopedia of American Religions. Detroit: Gale. 5th ed. pps: 476-480.
Tyler, B. B. 1894.
"A History of the Disciples of Christ." The American Church History Series. Volume XII. New York: Scribner's.
Church of Christ Denomination?
Most Churches of Christs' inform others (including their own members) that they are a non-denominational church. However, through my own experience and research I have found this untrue. I have found it untrue because of an instance where someone was looking for a church to go to after they moved and a Church of Christ they were involved in gave them lists of addresses for Churches of Christ. This person didn't have the money for gas to travel on the other side of the city and I told them, "Look under the Non-denominational listings in the newspaper and see if there's anything near you that you feel comfortable with." and I got incredibly ugly looks from Church of Christ members.
Church of Christ is a denomination because they have their own branches, own sets of beliefs, and own traditions.
You may ask why this topic even matters. Truth is, it doesn't exactly matter to everyone else, but it matters to the Church of Christ. It matters because it would ruin their position as the body of Christ, because they claim to be the one and only body of Christ.
Churches of Christ get ugly with those who call them a "denomination", which is in fact the truth. They commonly make excuses by altering the definition of "denomination" to fit their situation. They will often do whatever it takes to prove they are non-denominational.
Core Beliefs
The Churches of Christ commonly have core beliefs that are to be believed to set them apart from other churches:
1. You must be baptized to be saved
2. No musical instruments in worship (unless you are of the Instrumental Brethren branch)
3. Denial of the gifts and the Holy Spirit
4. Doctrine being 98% New Testament, and 2% Old Testament
*The first point I don't agree with 100%, and is highly debatable. Most know their reasoning regarding this. Although, the Church of Christ view point of, "You're not a member of the church until you have become baptized." is harsh in my opinion. The main verses used to establish their position on this are Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, and 1 Peter 3:21.
*I am for musical instruments in worship because The Holy Bible has examples of musical worship in both the Old and New Testaments. The Bible never says musical worship is wrong. I have often heard Churches of Christ refer to music as a "gray area" where you shouldn't do it anyway just in case you're wrong. Members have also said that it "drowns out the singing when you have instruments playing so it leads to confusion" and they use the verse (1 Corinthians 14:33). To back this idea, they commonly refer to Ephesians 5:19 and Colossians 3:16.
*Denial of The Holy Spirit is indeed dangerous, and The Holy Bible expresses how dangerous this is:
Matthew 12:31 - 32 NIV:
And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
Matthew 12:31 - 32 KJV:
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
*Some of them sing songs with the word "Holy Spirit/Ghost" in them, and say that they believe in the Holy Spirit/Ghost, but in fact they often deny it in their hearts. This is obvious because they do not fulfill their responsibility as Christians. I have never been to a Church of Christ or heard of a Church of Christ who simply soak in The Holy Spirit, and use the gifts such as the gift of prophecy, speaking in tongues, etc. etc. I have not seen these gifts used effectively and those with true gifts from God on these matters are usually told it's "wrong".
*Most of Church of Christ doctrine is only preaching about the New Testament. I have only seen Churches of Christ reference back to the Old Testament when they talk about Adam and Eve (they usually use Adam and Eve to describe the fall of man - and use the fall of man to describe that women cannot preach within a church paired with some verses from 1 Corinthians). Most of what they touch back on are Genesis and Exodus from the Old Testament. Few references are usually mad to the Old Testament unless they feel it could help strengthen a point in the New Testament. I noticed that they tend to avoid most books of the Bible that include things in which they do not believe. It's a lot like what people call "Buffet Christianity" - they pick and choose what they want to believe and discard the rest.
Ignoring Responsibility
*Many Churches of Christ don't witness to others, and at times when I have seen them try, it usually comes across as an attack of, "Believe this or you're going to Hell." Often times, Churches of Christ do not go out to public to witness. Many Churches of Christ do not have public events for everyone to go to and fellowship and possibly help others learn the word. There may be some sects that actually do, and that is unheard of from me and out of my experience range.
As Christians, we are called to witness and spread the good news:
Matthew 28:19 KJV:
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
*This definitely includes ignoring the gifts from The Holy Spirit/Ghost, and not using them or answering our true calling in life. Many Churches of Christ do not talk about God's calling for our lives, or about the gifts and rarely do they mention that we should use those gifts. Most people in a Church of Christ suppress their gifts - even the men.
*There are plenty of Churches of Christ out there that put church before family. They believe church is the center, and should come before your own family. There have been times I've witnessed in a Church of Christ where people outcast their own family from the church and from their own personal lives and do not associate with them, or even say a quick, "Hello." to them. There may be times to outcast a family member, but outcasting a family member is normally what they do when the person who is being outcasted needs God most. After outcasting family, most of these people claim not to care because the other people are "no longer their responsibility". Sometimes an event such as this is accompanied with gossip about how badly or ungodly the person they have outcasted is. This usually brings this verse to mind:
1 Timothy 5:8 KJV:
But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
*I personally believe there may be times to distance yourself from a specific individual, but from the distance, we can still care and pray for them.
Most Churches of Christ...
~Don't believe that Sunday School is appropriate because it separates children from the family unit.
~Don't witness to others (this may be one of the reasons why most are not familiar with these churches).
~Don't accept The Holy Spirit/Ghost and the gifts that come from The Holy Spirit/Ghost.
~Put church in the center of everything, and often times before their own family.
~Are made up of family members and their friends. These churches are often small most likely due to lack of witnessing and because they are made up of people related to each other. They naturally pass down their beliefs to their children.
~Take the Bible literally word for word because they believe it should all be taken literally. Even parts of the Bible that were meant for a specific place and a specific time are used literally.
~Don't research historical context because "The Holy Bible is the only true history book left on earth."
~Twist scripture (because it's all taken literally and because they fit it to their situation).
Resources
~http://www.chocd.org/home.html
~http://web.archive.org/web/20060829153200/http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/restor2.htm
~Personal experience
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Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:18 am
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I figured, on top of this, I will post my experience with some Churches of Christ to shed some light on what I observed, how I felt, and how I dealt. My experience is also the inspiration for posting this thread:
For nearly 20 years I attended a couple Churches of Christ in my lifetime and have visited with members of other Churches of Christ through special vacation events where they get a few of the affiliated Churches of Christ together in one spot to have church, basically. I did attend a One Cup Brethren branch at one point when I was younger and hadn't been baptized so I wasn't allowed to partake anyway, and the church I had visited was all family because there were few left in that church. I never actually started reading my Bible until after I got married. That is sad because I had never heard common stories like Sampson and Delilah, Saul and David, Deborah the judge, or even about when the promise land, Canaan, when it was reached at last. This stuff is all so fascinating and I wish I would've heard it earlier in life!
As a kid, things in the church didn't seem all that bad to me because I had friends that went there. Church to me as a kid was about going to church, bringing along toys or a coloring book, and hoping to get invited to sit with a friend on their family's pew. There wasn't assigned seating, but the members of the church act like there is at times. Nearly everyone sits at the same pews every meeting service. I've noticed strangers come through that door and sit at someone's normal seat without knowing and plus, it's a church - you should be able to sit where you would like, and they give any stranger that takes their seat a weird look, or tell other church members how annoying it was they couldn't sit at their normal seat. I grew up realizing where everyone sat, and figured it was common rule not to take someone else's seat.
When I got older and my friend's mom said we acted like "babies" because we still colored in church and would draw instead of listen to the message. We started listening to the message and found it a bit intriguing so we started listening and stopped coloring/drawing for the most part. As a child, I saw church as the place we go every Sunday morning and not much more.
As a child, I used to say certain things that one would think make any Christian parent pleased. A true example is when I was with my parents in the car and I was sitting in my seat and suddenly I thought up of something brilliant! Or, at least in my mind it was brilliant. I decided to say it aloud because I felt the urge to. I then opened my mouth and said, "Faith is like driving! You have to have faith that others on the road will do the right thing!" Then there was an unforgettable pause. All of a sudden my Mom said, "Are you kidding me?! Faith is NOTHING like driving! We can't trust these people!!! They'll probably smash into us when they get the chance!" After that, I felt nothing but shame. I didn't want to talk because I felt like I was in trouble. I tried to refrain from my Biblical comparisons because I realized it made Mommy and Daddy unhappy.
When I was old enough to realize what they believe, I was taught to accept whatever I heard in church. That was how it was, and no one was supposed to question those beliefs so I kept silent. I realized that they thought it was wrong for a woman to cut her hair short because it was sinful, and wrong for men to wear their hair long because it's sinful. I accepted all sorts of ideas that weren't right with God's word. When I was baptized and could have communion, I felt great from the baptism experience and in a cheerful mood. I'm positive now a days now that I look back on that that The Holy Spirit was working powerfully through me. Although, I felt that feeling disappear after a couple weeks.
I became exceedingly depressed when I was a teenager. I often wondered, "Where am I going after I die?" and I often had a fear that I wouldn't be good enough to get into Heaven. I was truly depressed for about a year, and tried to ignore all social events and my own friends. I acted so terrible, and I never wanted to smile. I hated everything - including myself. I often days felt as if I were a monster. Some days, I wanted to harm myself and get life over with because I didn't feel like this pain was worth it. However, there was always something stopping me from hurting myself and keeping me on a semi-sane path of, "I will not hurt myself because that's selfish, especially when there are people who care." I figure these days it was God telling me through The Holy Spirit. I figured if I could get past the pain there was a light at the end of the tunnel. That was true when I came out of that horrible dreaded feeling. I prayed more, and sadly I ignored my Bible most days.
I would often get confused with my Mom's behavior on Sunday mornings. Every other day of the week we would listen to our own music, and on Sunday mornings, we turn on the music in the car and all of a sudden my Mom would turn it off and I would ask, "Why?" and she said, "We don't need to be listening to that on Sunday mornings." So we didn't listen to music on the way to church. Then one day I was sniffling because my nose was a bit runny or irritated and my Mom told me I couldn't sniffled because it was distracting in church. One time my sister had a cough because she was still sick and then my Mom slammed on the brakes and took my sister home because my Mom said, "You can't be doing that all through church!" My Mom used to write on a notepad everything me and my siblings did "wrong" in church as we did them so she could remember to punish us later.
Sunday mornings were often chaotic when I grew older. When I was a child, it was getting up in the morning, getting a bath, eating breakfast, and then getting ready for church and leaving the house. Things seemed a lot happier then, too. I'm not sure what caused the negative attitudes on Sunday mornings after we moved and I was becoming older. I remember other members would stare at times if women showed up in jeans or anything they were truly comfortable in. I know that they are offended because I used to wear a dress/skirt to church and then after church, I would get my comfortable clothes out of the car before hanging out with friends, change in the church bathroom, put my church clothes in the car, and when I came out of the bathroom people looked offended as if I had done something incredibly wrong.
When I invited my husband, was my boyfriend and then fiance, to come to my church - I believed that everything was still okay. He would tell me things he didn't agree with. I also noticed some people were nice to him, while others were rude. After my husband and I were married - we didn't go to church every time because we were getting everything together. Marriage is a big step in life and we had to figure out things like budgets, improvements we want to make on our living space, and after the wedding - all we wanted to do was sleep because the stress of putting our wedding together and all the harsh and ugly comments we got from some individuals was almost more than we could handle. We wanted our wedding a certain way, and everyone else was trying to tell us how they wanted our wedding to be. It was upsetting because a lot of people said they would show up and then scheduled "last minute trips" and then ran into one of them at the store the day after our wedding and they said, "Sorry, we forgot." It was hurtful. These people are all Christians, too.
Also, my husband had a job where he came in contact with a lot of other people and it wasn't uncommon to catch a cold or the flu, or be sick for a couple weeks in a row. Since I was his wife, I would sometimes get some of these sicknesses, too. It was a handful to add church in and the circumstances weren't usually in our favor. My parents lectured me on going to church mostly when I was alone and they were taking me to class, and said, "There are harsh punishments after death so you should go to church." and, "It's not good to not go to church. You have to make room for church." My husband and I normally had home Bible studies when we weren't able to make church and read throughout the week and studied. Although, my parents never consider that "church". Then I would get messages through the internet from individuals saying, "We miss you! Come back!" and things of that nature as if we had already left the church, which we hadn't.
After my husband went over with me about what beliefs of theirs weren't right, or slightly off with Biblical context, historical information, background culture, etc. it made me feel like I had a black hole in my soul and that I had been wrong for so long. It ached, but I was happy that I now knew the truth and could see. My husband told me I didn't have to leave and he doesn't intend to change me. I chose to change, and it may be harder some days, but in general - it feels a lot better to know the truth. It gets sad for me, though, when my family doesn't listen or glorify in the truth.
I did leave their church and felt the only peaceful way for me to do this was to send a letter to everyone in the congregation. I still had a mailing list so I used it to send a letter. One individual that cares about everyone and I believe she truly knows God and feels God. I know that she's witnessed at high school reunions and to old friends, and she has such a sweet and caring soul. She may be one of the only people I can say loves God in that church and does her best to follow His word under such a controlling environment. She told me that I wrote a nice letter, and that I'm welcome at any time. She would still chat with me as if nothing had changed. Then there were people such as my parents that got mad about it and made me feel stupid for sending the letter out in the first place. They said I made them sound like they were the devil and all of that. I tried to explain my thoughts and beliefs to them and they were shocked and became angry at some of the new truths from the Bible I had acquired over such a short time.
To this day, I see the damage this does to families who are in a cult. Families turn against each other as if they aren't related. My parents have outcasted my own uncle and that hurt because as a kid, I saw that him and my father got along so well. They would hang out a lot and it was so awesome. I enjoyed being around my uncle because he was friendly and not so judgmental. He has the same philosophy that my aunts do, "If you're family and you're around me - you're getting a hug whether you like it or not." He's an all around friendly guy. The only times I get to see him are when I run into him in public and it's hard to keep in contact with him. I know that my uncle has made many mistakes in his lifetime, but I feel that they had abandoned him when he needed God the most.
What I learned is their church had harsh ideas about people. They would often bash other denominations in their sermons, and all it would do was fuel up fire and keep a flame of hate going for other people. When I met my husband, my Mom had a fit - especially when we decided to get married. She got mad because he "didn't believe the same way" and with some other harsh stereotypes she made that were rather racist and prejudice in nature. Yet, she denies she ever said them.
I've seen many families torn apart because of the outcasting and in turn - they venture far away from God. I remember a woman crying when the church was announcing that they were outcasting her brother-in-law. So many tears shed in that church - and not because of The Holy Spirit. False doctrine and twisting of doctrine can affect people in so many negative ways if they give into it and come to believe it as the truth.
This is a shorter version of the story - I tried to put a shorter version without getting too into depth with everything. So I apologize if this doesn't seem relevant to my purpose of posting this thread.
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Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:07 am
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Wow, thanks for sharing all that!
Whew, where to start? First, I just want to hug you for all the family crap you went through...it's those people you love that can make the worst hurts to us. heart I really hope that over time it gets better, that you are able to have a better relationship with them and that their eyes are open to the truth that has been closed off to them. Just keep praying for them.
I found the information about those churches really interesting, I had read a blurb on the internet before about someone talking about why there shouldn't be music in church and how God doesn't like it and I was so confused by the whole though...I still am truthfully, it seems so bizarre to me!
I have to say the church seat thing made me smile, I think there is a bit of that everywhere. We usually sit in the same seats every week, and most everyone does until we get new people and we all adjust to new seats. I don't get upset if someone sits in the spot I normally sit in, but I prefer that spot, in the front so I am there to pray with people at the alter time after or whatever. I am always one of the first ones to church as I am part of the intercessory team that prays an hour before service, but I rarely "save" our seats with items, and the rest of my family all likes to be social chatting as others get there rather than sit in the seats.
I am glad you are not in that cult environment anymore and I loved the link you put up about knowing if you are spiritually abused and the recovery from one! It was so sad to read though at the same time... sad
Quote: There are many wonderful Churches of Christ, but there are also some dangerous Churches of Christ. One of the distinguishing factors between the two is the classic double-bind (in the churches I grew up in) that one can never be sure one is going to heaven. The tradition is that if you believe that you are definitely going to heaven, then you must be arrogant to think you are that good. It seems that many Churches of Christ feel that if you are sure you are going to heaven, then you will get relaxed about sinning because the only thing that keeps people from sinning is the fear of hell.
This part makes me so sad because I see a lot of churches wanting to scare people into heaven instead of LOVE people into heaven...I think only one of them will produce a change in hearts and minds that will last. Love triumphs fear.
thanks for the great info here!
Oh, I also do not agree that you need to be baptized to be saved...sure we want ot do it as a sign of obedience to God, but if you do not get baptized, I don't think that means you aren't saved...
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Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:22 pm
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I don't need feeling sorry for for my family situation. I'm not looking for sympathy, but to simply put the message out there that these types of things do happen in churches, and that there are a lot of Sunday Morning Only people. What is needed here the most is God, Jesus, The Holy spirit and prayer.
Most of these churches (at least from my experience in two Churches of Christ that didn't use music) they say, "It's a gray area so we should leave it alone in case we're wrong." and others say, "The instruments would drown out the words we sing and lead to confusion." as if God has limits and wouldn't be able to hear it all, which frankly is bizarre. I remember going to a church that did have musical instruments for the first time (clearly wasn't with my parents) and I thought it was different, and I wasn't used to it at all. The only problems I can see with music in church is if it creates an issue where people only do it for the attention and not for God. Otherwise, it's definitely okay and I don't mind instruments in churches.
Perhaps there is the seating thing in a lot of churches. It's okay to sit in the same spot you normally do. Exactly, why get mad when you need to readjust? It just bothered me that people at the church I used to go to would get mad. On Resurrection Sunday/Easter morning, it was ridiculous. People tried to get there super early that went every Sunday just so they could have their seat. Then they'd look at people all weird and if the other people noticed, it may make them feel uncomfortable. I would see a change of seating as a good thing. Sometimes I like those places where you get a new seat every time because people sit wherever.
Spiritual abuse was something I didn't realize could actually happen and I didn't realize it existed until I searched for recovering from being in a Church of Christ. I thought, "Wow, this is possible?" It is indeed saddening to know that it is possible, and it can have completely negative effects on a person's well-being. Sadly enough, I believe it was that sight that said people who grew up in spiritually abusive churches can have similar symptoms of someone who grew up with one or two alcoholic parents. That in itself shocked me.
That site most likely mentions there being "wonderful churches of christ" out there to avoid criticism or they actually have found a branch that doesn't go by the "traditional" doctrine, which would be great. Sadly, a lot of Churches of Christ feel that way about Heaven - most of them are never sure and they don't know why and then someone who preaches mentions that if you aren't sure then you've done something wrong. In turn, they place the blame on the individual instead of the actual church doctrine. So that's why I always thought something was wrong with only me, and made me feel so disgusted with myself.
They are off about the ideas of sin at times. When there is someone clearly sinning - sometimes the church outcasts that individual without offering help or assistance with that person's situation, which we should try to do for sure. There's no use to not tell someone about a sin they're doing and try to help them. It only makes the person worse and think, "Oh, I hide this well." and keep doing it. In a Church of Christ I went to, one of the elders had a few hefty sins. A few you could notice and some not so noticeable unless someone else asked for prayer for them would they mention it. I would think, "Whoa, you let this guy be an elder? Really?!" He has gotten up in front of the church and told others how wrong these certain sins are and tells people they need to come before the church with their sins for them to be forgiven, and yet he has never done that. If he has, it was in one of their "men's meetings". In those meetings, only men are allowed and they consider that the church...it's frustrating to the women a lot of the time, I'm sure. They've let some criminals back into the church because they were related to an elder or deacon, and other criminals would be forced to leave. It's sad, and it seems what is more important to them is status and how they want things to be than God.
I certainly hope some of these people have a change in heart and read every word of their Bible and open their mind and realize that they are wrong, or could be wrong and seek God, Jesus, and The Holy Spirit. It's been more than 20 years since and not one I know has turned it around. It usually takes a miracle to turn these people around. I remember I used to post on Christian forums about certain issues and they'd be concerned if I was actually going to a good church and told me perhaps I should go to another church for once, but with my parents - I knew that was out of the question.
Sadly, my parents do not see me as a believer in God anymore. I have told them I do believe in God strongly, and read my Bible more often. Although, nothing I say will be enough unless I am going to their church.
Baptism in their church is usually heavily pressed. I remember once after I was baptized, one of the elders asked me privately, "Why isn't your sister baptized yet?" It was an uncomfortable situation and I said, "Maybe she isn't ready yet?" Then the elder said, "Yeah, that's possible...some people aren't ready for that." I felt literally intimidated for some reason. I believe baptism is something a Christian should do when they feel they are truly connected with God, and it's a good symbol that we are born again, and the feeling of it feels great. I know there is good importance to baptism since I have felt it first hand. Also, I'm sure there are acceptions somewhere where people can't be baptized because they live somewhere that doesn't have enough water, or in prison where they can't just ask to be baptized and expect it to happen. Although, when you're baptized, you need to keep going strong. Some people I believe can also be baptized for the wrong reasons like to do it because their friends or family are, because they are pressured, because they want to partake in communion, because they don't want to feel left out or left behind, or if they simply want to show off.
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:37 am
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:32 pm
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Guardian of the Sky you know i noticed some what you spoke. like when I left the towns Church ofChrist cause I did not feel God calling me there any more, they seemed to make sure that int he town I'd be treated poorly. Now they are pressuring me to come back. And I remember a few other oddities I don't care to mention. However, I do not believe they are a cult. But I don't believe there should be denomations at all really. I think we should all be Christian, followers of Christ. leave the baptists, the calvinists, and all the other titles out of it lol.
I noticied a lot of deep things going in the Church of Christ's that I have been around and none of it was exactly good. A lot of Churches of Christ have their differences and some more extreme than others. It depends on which one a person attends.
Denominations have formed over the years and it's beyond our helping, unfortunately. I prefer non-denominational myself and am sad when there are people out there that taint the title "Christian" like by saying, "I'm a Christian." and then being rude, hurting someone's feelings intentionally, treating other people terribly, etc. because I believe that creates a lot of atheists, some agnostics. It saddens me that these days you can't just go to any church and ask for help because not any church will help you out. Some churches are chilling like that. I suppose in Revelation we are given good examples of churches that weren't all there with God as well and we should look at those as examples of what a church should and shouldn't be.
I believe it's important to recognize denominations because some are corrupt in their beliefs so we need to know the difference between God's word and those beliefs if there's a difference between the two. In this world, it's easy to fall prey to false doctrine. So it helps to be educated in it. |
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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:17 am
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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:31 pm
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Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:22 am
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Aquatic_blue ultrafirebird Yeah, there was this Church I used to go to: they were only interested in us paying our tithes. I didn't realize it at first, but when my mother and I were in a rock and a hard place, we stopped going because it took an hour to get there and we didnt have tons of money for gas or anything. And then my mom got a call from the church; asking why we weren't paying our tithes. Yeah, you can bet your bottom dollar that I was less than pleased when I heard that. God wasn't through with us though, no siree. He delivered us from the despair because we believed in him as we gone through our trial of fire. Now mom's happily remarried, found a better church that gave us meat and potatoes instead of milk and the lord had blessed us alot. And later on, the pastor of that old church actually set up an option of tithes to PAY FOR HIS RETIREMENT. Yeah, Im glad we didn't stick around. Because after that, the bank had seized that church building. I'm certainly glad that God had plans for us. I don't believe it's ever right for a church to force tithes onto others. I believe that should be up to the person and what they are able to give and/or willing to give. It's good that you found a better church. Spiritually speaking - milk isn't always a bad thing because that's what we need first before we can handle meat - gotta crawl before you can walk as people usually say - same for being born again in Christ. God definitely has plans for everyone and everything whether that person or situation be good or bad. 3nodding
So what your truly saying here, and please correct me if I am wrong.
But YOU FEEL, and IT'S YOUR OPINION, that the entire body of believers from a "Church of Christ" are a bunch of cultest.
Am I right thus far.
Because from what I have read here and from what I have seen through out this guild, weither it be this topic or any other topic;
"THE POWERS THAT BE HERE IN THIS GUILD EITHER DELETE A PERSON'S COMMENT OR SHUT THE ENTIRE THREAD POST DOWN TO ALL TO POST A COMMENT - GOOD, BAD, OR INDIFFERENT THAN THAT OF THE POWERS IN CHARGE HERE,
Whether it is Scripturally sound doctrine or opinion being said, when YOU - The powers in charge of the guild decide that YOUR IDEAS and OPINIONS are THE RIGHT ONES verses any thing that comes from sound doctrine of The Holy Bible - God's Word from any of this guild's guildies.
Personally and this is just MY opinion.
"This form of dictatorship is really a preverse of religious freedoms.
Praise God and give Him the glory that you do not have any control over anything outside of this guild or we would all be wearing GAG'S from you maam, Garland-Green, and the other v/p's of this guild that is staff and believes that your opinions are the only ones that count even if they are not Scripturally sound, or Scriptually backed by the Word of God.
I would like to add one of my own opinions to all of you whom think that they know better than the great & good Word of God, that I believe you are all a bunch of hypocrites and pharasees yourselves. Since I have been here no one from this guild has even taken the time to welcome me here.
It truly is sad to see a guild with the number of members that you have to loose touch with them, and to see a guild like 'The Well Guild' take the time to welcome every one and to make them feel at home and be there in any way if for any need.
Thank you and have a good day and may the Lord convict each and every heart in this guild to commit every waking moment to bring honor, praise and glory to God.
Jack Fitzbaugh
the AHH |
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Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:49 pm
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AyaseHeartsHagi Aquatic_blue ultrafirebird Yeah, there was this Church I used to go to: they were only interested in us paying our tithes. I didn't realize it at first, but when my mother and I were in a rock and a hard place, we stopped going because it took an hour to get there and we didnt have tons of money for gas or anything. And then my mom got a call from the church; asking why we weren't paying our tithes. Yeah, you can bet your bottom dollar that I was less than pleased when I heard that. God wasn't through with us though, no siree. He delivered us from the despair because we believed in him as we gone through our trial of fire. Now mom's happily remarried, found a better church that gave us meat and potatoes instead of milk and the lord had blessed us alot. And later on, the pastor of that old church actually set up an option of tithes to PAY FOR HIS RETIREMENT. Yeah, Im glad we didn't stick around. Because after that, the bank had seized that church building. I'm certainly glad that God had plans for us. I don't believe it's ever right for a church to force tithes onto others. I believe that should be up to the person and what they are able to give and/or willing to give. It's good that you found a better church. Spiritually speaking - milk isn't always a bad thing because that's what we need first before we can handle meat - gotta crawl before you can walk as people usually say - same for being born again in Christ. God definitely has plans for everyone and everything whether that person or situation be good or bad. 3nodding So what your truly saying here, and please correct me if I am wrong. But YOU FEEL, and IT'S YOUR OPINION, that the entire body of believers from a "Church of Christ" are a bunch of cultest. Am I right thus far. Because from what I have read here and from what I have seen through out this guild, weither it be this topic or any other topic; "THE POWERS THAT BE HERE IN THIS GUILD EITHER DELETE A PERSON'S COMMENT OR SHUT THE ENTIRE THREAD POST DOWN TO ALL TO POST A COMMENT - GOOD, BAD, OR INDIFFERENT THAN THAT OF THE POWERS IN CHARGE HERE, Whether it is Scripturally sound doctrine or opinion being said, when YOU - The powers in charge of the guild decide that YOUR IDEAS and OPINIONS are THE RIGHT ONES verses any thing that comes from sound doctrine of The Holy Bible - God's Word from any of this guild's guildies. Personally and this is just MY opinion. "This form of dictatorship is really a preverse of religious freedoms. Praise God and give Him the glory that you do not have any control over anything outside of this guild or we would all be wearing GAG'S from you maam, Garland-Green, and the other v/p's of this guild that is staff and believes that your opinions are the only ones that count even if they are not Scripturally sound, or Scriptually backed by the Word of God. I would like to add one of my own opinions to all of you whom think that they know better than the great & good Word of God, that I believe you are all a bunch of hypocrites and pharasees yourselves. Since I have been here no one from this guild has even taken the time to welcome me here. It truly is sad to see a guild with the number of members that you have to loose touch with them, and to see a guild like 'The Well Guild' take the time to welcome every one and to make them feel at home and be there in any way if for any need. Thank you and have a good day and may the Lord convict each and every heart in this guild to commit every waking moment to bring honor, praise and glory to God. Jack Fitzbaugh the AHH
I would first like to say that I believe we all, Vice Captains and crew are all dedicated to the truth which is found in the Bible. Mistakes can be made, but they are never made with ill intent or malice. It is the purpose of this guild to dig deeper in God's word. To apply what we have learned to our own lives, and preach the gospel. Speaking for myself I have no personal agenda behind running this guild. It is not affiliated with any denomination, any group or cult.
Different guilds are run differently, and though we are separated by name we are not competing. We all have different niches to fill, and different purposes in the body of Christ. The ear doesn't have the same purpose as the eye.
It may be that your particular needs are better met in another Christian guild, but that doesn't mean that this guild is bad.
Instead of seeing it as a competition, remember that we all work towards the same goal. Which is to glorify Christ. smile
Calling someone a hypocrite or Pharisee because you don't feel you have been properly welcomed is certainly not fair. You have been allowed admittance to the guild have you not? Haven't you been allowed to post what you want, and contribute in discussions? Most of us here back our claims with Scripture, and as far as I have been able to see (I read nearly all posts made in this guild) no comment has been unjustly deleted, or simply deleted to gag anyone who disagrees with the crew. Everyone in this guild is held to the same standards, be it me or a new member. |
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Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:51 pm
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AyaseHeartsHagi Aquatic_blue ultrafirebird Yeah, there was this Church I used to go to: they were only interested in us paying our tithes. I didn't realize it at first, but when my mother and I were in a rock and a hard place, we stopped going because it took an hour to get there and we didnt have tons of money for gas or anything. And then my mom got a call from the church; asking why we weren't paying our tithes. Yeah, you can bet your bottom dollar that I was less than pleased when I heard that. God wasn't through with us though, no siree. He delivered us from the despair because we believed in him as we gone through our trial of fire. Now mom's happily remarried, found a better church that gave us meat and potatoes instead of milk and the lord had blessed us alot. And later on, the pastor of that old church actually set up an option of tithes to PAY FOR HIS RETIREMENT. Yeah, Im glad we didn't stick around. Because after that, the bank had seized that church building. I'm certainly glad that God had plans for us. I don't believe it's ever right for a church to force tithes onto others. I believe that should be up to the person and what they are able to give and/or willing to give. It's good that you found a better church. Spiritually speaking - milk isn't always a bad thing because that's what we need first before we can handle meat - gotta crawl before you can walk as people usually say - same for being born again in Christ. God definitely has plans for everyone and everything whether that person or situation be good or bad. 3nodding So what your truly saying here, and please correct me if I am wrong. But YOU FEEL, and IT'S YOUR OPINION, that the entire body of believers from a "Church of Christ" are a bunch of cultest. Am I right thus far. Because from what I have read here and from what I have seen through out this guild, weither it be this topic or any other topic; "THE POWERS THAT BE HERE IN THIS GUILD EITHER DELETE A PERSON'S COMMENT OR SHUT THE ENTIRE THREAD POST DOWN TO ALL TO POST A COMMENT - GOOD, BAD, OR INDIFFERENT THAN THAT OF THE POWERS IN CHARGE HERE, Whether it is Scripturally sound doctrine or opinion being said, when YOU - The powers in charge of the guild decide that YOUR IDEAS and OPINIONS are THE RIGHT ONES verses any thing that comes from sound doctrine of The Holy Bible - God's Word from any of this guild's guildies. Personally and this is just MY opinion. "This form of dictatorship is really a preverse of religious freedoms. Praise God and give Him the glory that you do not have any control over anything outside of this guild or we would all be wearing GAG'S from you maam, Garland-Green, and the other v/p's of this guild that is staff and believes that your opinions are the only ones that count even if they are not Scripturally sound, or Scriptually backed by the Word of God. I would like to add one of my own opinions to all of you whom think that they know better than the great & good Word of God, that I believe you are all a bunch of hypocrites and pharasees yourselves. Since I have been here no one from this guild has even taken the time to welcome me here. It truly is sad to see a guild with the number of members that you have to loose touch with them, and to see a guild like 'The Well Guild' take the time to welcome every one and to make them feel at home and be there in any way if for any need. Thank you and have a good day and may the Lord convict each and every heart in this guild to commit every waking moment to bring honor, praise and glory to God. Jack Fitzbaugh the AHH
No, I do not believe that the entire body of believers from "Church of Christ" are cults. That is why I have mentioned words and phrases such as "Most" because I haven't been to every single Church of Christ that exists.
In the end - what truly matters is that person's personal relationship with God.
In this guild, we generally take down an entire thread or post if it is breaking the rules by matters of breaking peace (intended trolling), foul language, intention to convert or mislead others from the Christian faith, etc.
If you do not agree with the crew and administration in this guild, no one is keeping you here and you are free to go whenever you wish. There are a few other Christian guilds out there on gaia.
I apologize that you have not felt welcome. This guild has gotten more busy over time and not all crew and administration always have the time to welcome each individual personally. However, we do welcome all new members whether we mention it to you personally or not. It's always wonderful to have new people join this guild!
The reason we post threads like this is for information purposes so that people can be aware of what most people in a certain denomination believe and why it can be dangerous. We must always question the spirit because some things can sound good and innocent and in fact be false doctrine.
God bless!
~Aquatic~ |
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Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:46 pm
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ultrafirebird Yeah, there was this Church I used to go to: they were only interested in us paying our tithes. I didn't realize it at first, but when my mother and I were in a rock and a hard place, we stopped going because it took an hour to get there and we didnt have tons of money for gas or anything. And then my mom got a call from the church; asking why we weren't paying our tithes. Yeah, you can bet your bottom dollar that I was less than pleased when I heard that. God wasn't through with us though, no siree. He delivered us from the despair because we believed in him as we gone through our trial of fire. Now mom's happily remarried, found a better church that gave us meat and potatoes instead of milk and the lord had blessed us alot. And later on, the pastor of that old church actually set up an option of tithes to PAY FOR HIS RETIREMENT. Yeah, Im glad we didn't stick around. Because after that, the bank had seized that church building. I'm certainly glad that God had plans for us.
I have read your entire testimony and found it moving.
The ways of the Lord are higher and wiser than our own understanding.
It is wonderful that your mother and you were so blessed after your 'test of fire'.
Sadly though a lot of churches concentrate on their congregations paying their tithes out of pocket so much that they have forgotten what the Bible says about tithing itself.
You are suppose to give the 'first of your fruits to the Lord and to those who can put it up in the store house.'
But tithing often is misunderstood by a lot of people to be that of finances, and not of any thing else, hence Jesus parable about 'The Widow and The Widows Coins'.
Most have not looked at the time a person tithes in the way of "Fellowship, Community Outreach Programs, Witnessing, Praying, Cleaning the church-inside or outside" as a way to tithe.
But it is still tithing of your 'First Fruits."
I did enjoy your testimony and will continue to keep both you and your mother and new step father/family in my prayers.
Thank you for taking the time to share your testimony with all of us here. That was a very nice and Christian thing to do.
God bless you always!
Your brother in Christ,
Jack F. |
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Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:07 pm
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Aside from the G.P.S guild mule "righteous idealism" ( and yes, He is also committing a cult due to the idea that he is connecting the well Guild as the "popular Guild for a real Christian" when clearly they fall under the term legalism", and yes, I too had their lies driven out of their mouths in a "rhetorical" and "disrespectful" manner of non compassionate ideals given and appointed by their Captain, and yes I tried to speak with the captain and he denied me when i brought up a warning to him about his Guild and was declared that i was bashful), I believe A real Church are the ones who are not trying to gain people, but they are trying to gain Christ. Popularity are less to the true Churches. However, If God gave them a calling to it from their Anguish, and anguish is being the pain of God's heart ( which is the reason my Guild was created in the front of this Guild, I thank the one whom placed it there =) ), I believe God will take your prayers and move you to that kind of Church.
I am currently at Times square Church, A church that is really in deep anguish for God. We have a lot of fellowship, but when God's words hits the deck, We're on DECK ( XD it was said by a minister in the service). I think these churches that are heart broken and praying to seek God's face. Praying in anguish and sorrow for this world and Just purely calling out to Jesus to strong that you yourself had to cry, Then that Church is not of the world's. I seen how churches can get people in. saying Jokes, saying punch lines, saying good things about God. saying a nice smooth message... FORGETTING about the LOVE of CHRIST and not even praying on their faces to God and saying "I NEED YOU". If your church don't mind phones, brings food just for a nice time during a service, and is denominational, These Church you will find and will have to walk away from. Because those Churches are for the world.
I read this in the bible called "divisions of the people in Christ". It states why denominations are destroying Christians. One goes to baptist, one goes to catholic, one goes in Islam, one goes to Buddha, one goes to the twelve paths, E.T.C... God himself said not to compromise nor to moderate Him. IT IS ALL OUT OR NOTHING AT ALL. God said from his point (and I am interpreting this) If I am your life, where are your prayers? where is your Love for me? where is my anguish in you? why are you not seeking out my face? why are you not devoted in my words? why are you not broken in flesh and gaining my spirit? why are you just buying time? when everyone around you will die and burn? where is your motivation at if i am not your motivation? Where? why are you seeking for the things of this earth? If i have something better here, in heaven?
See we care to Just take it easy. Play it soft. Accept people for who they are. Sure, Jesus himself done that. But He did not delay salvation. He offers it as a revelation. He doesn't moderate. He doesn't say " I AM GOD", no, he says " I am the TRUTH, WAY, and LIFE." He follows the will of his father. In anguish daily. In prayer daily. Being the living bible as declared in John 1:1.
Don't look for a Church that lets you do what you want. Look for a Church that is on fire for God. Sadly, not many are out there.... But In Jesus name, there will be those few that God will shake your spirit and will tell you, This is MY Church. If your spirit isn't convicted or shaken by the words preached by the pastor, It is NOT of God's and it will be sick, especially to those who are on fire for God.
A video from the Greatest pastor David Wilkerson to call those Churches out.
a power warning of David Wilkerson.
Which Church/ Guild/ ministries would you believe? There is a Choice. A church, Guild or a form of Ministry are saying " Religion" are not the one's you should be joining. Those who say Yahweh, Elohim, or any form of God names and God had been telling you That those are not His name, Do not Join. Be careful my brothers and sisters, who you are hearing. I myself trust the Living waters, The Bible, My Ministry (even if people don't want to hear the true message from God), And other NON DENOMINATIONAL ministries that are not Religious, But follows the heart of God's. we all have our own testimonies. Don't let it die just because no one can believe it... That testimony is for you and you alone with God. You know your saved, and people calling you a Liar? If God is not calling you a Liar, Then those to transgress against you, shall never find victory in Christ.
Be strong in Christ my brothers/ sisters. God, Break our flesh and let the Spirit Rise in us! It is the Final hours of Grace.... It will fall soon... We must fight a great war now.
WE are THE CHOSEN GENERATIONS
The Ministry
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Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:44 pm
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Christiankid_leon_ Aside from the G.P.S guild mule "righteous idealism" ( and yes, He is also committing a cult due to the idea that he is connecting the well Guild as the "popular Guild for a real Christian" when clearly they fall under the term legalism", and yes, I too had their lies driven out of their mouths in a "rhetorical" and "disrespectful" manner of non compassionate ideals given and appointed by their Captain, and yes I tried to speak with the captain and he denied me when i brought up a warning to him about his Guild and was declared that i was bashful), I believe A real Church are the ones who are not trying to gain people, but they are trying to gain Christ. Popularity are less to the true Churches. However, If God gave them a calling to it from their Anguish, and anguish is being the pain of God's heart ( which is the reason my Guild was created in the front of this Guild, I thank the one whom placed it there =) ), I believe God will take your prayers and move you to that kind of Church. I am currently at Times square Church, A church that is really in deep anguish for God. We have a lot of fellowship, but when God's words hits the deck, We're on DECK ( XD it was said by a minister in the service). I think these churches that are heart broken and praying to seek God's face. Praying in anguish and sorrow for this world and Just purely calling out to Jesus to strong that you yourself had to cry, Then that Church is not of the world's. I seen how churches can get people in. saying Jokes, saying punch lines, saying good things about God. saying a nice smooth message... FORGETTING about the LOVE of CHRIST and not even praying on their faces to God and saying "I NEED YOU". If your church don't mind phones, brings food just for a nice time during a service, and is denominational, These Church you will find and will have to walk away from. Because those Churches are for the world. I read this in the bible called "divisions of the people in Christ". It states why denominations are destroying Christians. One goes to baptist, one goes to catholic, one goes in Islam, one goes to Buddha, one goes to the twelve paths, E.T.C... God himself said not to compromise nor to moderate Him. IT IS ALL OUT OR NOTHING AT ALL. God said from his point (and I am interpreting this) If I am your life, where are your prayers? where is your Love for me? where is my anguish in you? why are you not seeking out my face? why are you not devoted in my words? why are you not broken in flesh and gaining my spirit? why are you just buying time? when everyone around you will die and burn? where is your motivation at if i am not your motivation? Where? why are you seeking for the things of this earth? If i have something better here, in heaven? See we care to Just take it easy. Play it soft. Accept people for who they are. Sure, Jesus himself done that. But He did not delay salvation. He offers it as a revelation. He doesn't moderate. He doesn't say " I AM GOD", no, he says " I am the TRUTH, WAY, and LIFE." He follows the will of his father. In anguish daily. In prayer daily. Being the living bible as declared in John 1:1. Don't look for a Church that lets you do what you want. Look for a Church that is on fire for God. Sadly, not many are out there.... But In Jesus name, there will be those few that God will shake your spirit and will tell you, This is MY Church. If your spirit isn't convicted or shaken by the words preached by the pastor, It is NOT of God's and it will be sick, especially to those who are on fire for God. A video from the Greatest pastor David Wilkerson to call those Churches out. a power warning of David Wilkerson.Which Church/ Guild/ ministries would you believe? There is a Choice. A church, Guild or a form of Ministry are saying " Religion" are not the one's you should be joining. Those who say Yahweh, Elohim, or any form of God names and God had been telling you That those are not His name, Do not Join. Be careful my brothers and sisters, who you are hearing. I myself trust the Living waters, The Bible, My Ministry (even if people don't want to hear the true message from God), And other NON DENOMINATIONAL ministries that are not Religious, But follows the heart of God's. we all have our own testimonies. Don't let it die just because no one can believe it... That testimony is for you and you alone with God. You know your saved, and people calling you a Liar? If God is not calling you a Liar, Then those to transgress against you, shall never find victory in Christ. Be strong in Christ my brothers/ sisters. God, Break our flesh and let the Spirit Rise in us! It is the Final hours of Grace.... It will fall soon... We must fight a great war now. WE are THE CHOSEN GENERATIONS The Ministry
Quote: If your church don't mind phones, brings food just for a nice time during a service, and is denominational, These Church you will find and will have to walk away from.
There is honestly nothing wrong with eating while a message is being said. This in itself I find a worldly thing is when people say, "You can't eat in church or during a sermon." And I generally say, "Why not?" Sure, in churches if it's distracting to others it's fine - but what would be wrong with having a potluck and the pastor preaching as well? There is nothing wrong with it. It's just that society has a set ideal that people should not eat while a pastor is preaching.
Although, Jesus taught while people ate - he reached out to people while they ate. He also reached out to people when they weren't eating. His focus was to reach out to everyone, no matter who they were or what they were doing at the time.
Quote: I read this in the bible called "divisions of the people in Christ". It states why denominations are destroying Christians.
Where may I find this?
Also, what it all boils down to is if the person's relationship is right with God. You may have a Catholic whose mind, body, and soul are all right with God, or someone of a different denomination. Sometimes there's that one person in that denomination that knows what's right, but feel held back from doing what is right.
Quote: He doesn't say " I AM GOD", no, he says " I am the TRUTH, WAY, and LIFE."
Yes, Jesus did say, "I am the way and the truth and the life..." in John 14:6. Jesus is also part of the trinity - 3 distinct beings that operate as one. So in a sense, Jesus is God - even though he didn't say in his own words, "I am God."
Quote: Those who say Yahweh, Elohim, or any form of God names and God had been telling you That those are not His name, Do not Join.
Yahweh and Elohim are both names for God. I don't see anything wrong with using them. Some of them are a bit more complicated to use in context because they are both of Hebrew origins. Elohim is complicated, but it a term that has been used for "God" in the Hebrew as well as meaning "god" in a general sense (it can be singular and plural) depending on context. Just because other cultures use the name "Yahweh" or "Elohim" for "God" or "Yeshua" for Jesus does not make them wrong. God was "Yahweh" and "Elohim" in text before the English wrote it as "God". "Yeshua" was written down before the English versions said "Jesus". Also, it doesn't make us wrong if we use the word "God" instead of Yahweh or Elohim, and it doesn't make us wrong if we say the work "Jesus" instead of Yeshua.
Quote: Then those to transgress against you, shall never find victory in Christ
Those who transgress against us also have a chance of Salvation as well. Take Apostle Paul (originally Saul of Tarsus) for example - he murdered Christians before he came to God. He imprisoned and killed Christians in his life so he was in sin for murdering people, especially those who were peoples of God. However, Paul did turn around. It shows Salvation is possible. |
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