[S] Breeding Prices [New poll]

[PANK x l3mons]

**Update: Okay, so I changed the poll, got rid of my idea and would still like to see people posting their opinions. You can see my original suggestion in post 2, along with the results from the old poll which I will screenshot for proof if people request it because they dont believe I was honest with the numbers.

For transparency's sake I chose the 51k-100k option in my poll.

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This is a topic that I have never really seen addressed. To custom an unedited regular soq it costs 350k for just the adult stage. For all 3 stages it costs 550k. To breed any edit level of any kind of soq, it costs just 12k. As an example, you can get 3 extreme edited baskets for only 12k. The normal cost for one single custom extreme edit regular with 3 stages is 1.35mil. Multiply that by 3 and you get 4,050,000g. Do you see anything wrong with this picture?

A picture

I don't know about you, but I answered yes to that question when I posed it to myself. What I'm suggesting is a raise in prices. What I think should happen - since everyone seems so concerned with the apparently outrageous growth of the overall edit level in the shop - is a tiered level of prices. I absolutely do not think it is too much to ask of us as customers to pony (lolpun) up a little more gold for something that takes so much time for the colorists to complete.

[snipsnip]

Do you have a different opinion? Please post!

edit: I'd like to see more opinions on why people disagree. Do you just outright not agree? Do you think there is a problem at all? Post, don't just vote in the poll.

Please do not get off topic too much, and remember to remain civil.  

[PANK x l3mons]

Old idea:

quote="THIS IS JUST A SUGGESTION FOR A SOLUTION"]Suggested Price Changes Chart (prices displayed are for each parent, so 50x2=100k would be the full price of an unedited breeding and so on)

Unedited Soquili: 50k.
Minor edited Soquili: 200k.
Moderate edited Soquili: 300k.
Heavy edited Soquili: 400k.
Extreme edited Soquili: 500k.

All price changes are per parent, so for one unedited breeding it would be 50k+50k = 100k.

If two different edit levels want to breed, simply add the two levels together. Ex: Unedit (50k) + Minor (200k) = 250k. It can be split evenly between the owners as the price of their desired breeding.

Mutations don't automatically make your Soquili have extreme edits. There are templated mutations (ie Harpy claws, most paws)

Even if the suggested pricing scale does not get used, I think regardless that the cost of breeding should go up. It has been the same since you could buy a Nitemare Scarf for 200k for crying out loud. It has become increasingly easy to make gold over the years on Gaia, so breeding prices should at least inflate to match.

Reasons I have come up with to support my idea:

1. Gaia gold is easier than ever to get. It has been many years since 12k was anything more than chump change to most people. Look at how much gold most customers throw at paid raffles. The customer base has the gold.

2. There has been grumbling that Soquili is becoming an overly edited shop. This new system would encourage the breeding of unedited soquili. Usually if you have a mutant or an extreme edit soq you probably bribed or spent an insane amount of gold on an auction or raffle to get it. THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS TO THIS, I KNOW, however breedings are only slightly more likely to happen that customs so it is not unreasonable to expect people to save up gold for breedings in the same manner they do for customs.

3. How many of you tip colorists anyway? I know that some people I talk to do, and usually it is a fairly generous tip.

4. It would possibly discourage people from throwing random pairs together just because there is a breeding thread open all of a sudden. I know I don't always have 500k just laying around.

5. People would stop paying for all of the breedings, which on the surface seems like a 'nice thing to to' but if you look deeper (in my opinion which I apologize if this 100% truly is not your motivation) into it it seems to me to be an attempt to say 'lookit me, I'm so generous, give me a basket!'. I understand there are nice people out there who really do do that out of the kindness of their hearts, but lets be honest. This is Soquili, one of the most political shops I have ever been in. You can rarely even dish out a compliment without getting a suspicious glance.


Problems I can see arising from this change (if it is implemented in any form):

Problem 1. People complaining about Soquili being unfair to people without gold.

Solutions:
1. Ask partner to pay, on the condition they get first pick of baskets or something.
2. Quest, to save up.
3. Sell an item.
4. Deal with it. Prices go up everywhere. It sucks, but look at the rest of gaia. If you have the money to get the Soquili in the first place, you can probably come up with the money to breed it.

Problem 2. People might not know what edit level their Soquili falls into.

Solutions:
1. Create a thread that they can post in and ask. Other customers with more shop experience and knowledge can assist with 'edit checking'. If the owner doesn't agree with what other customers say then they can escalate and get a colorist opinion.


This kind of system makes more sense than for colorists to dish out two very heavily edited babies for only 12k. It's a very outdated price and needs changing.

Old poll

Agree
10% [ 6 ]
Mostly Agree (post?)
5% [ 3 ]
You've got a couple good points, but...(post!) (Kind of disagree)
12% [ 7 ]
Totally Disagree (Why? Post your opinion!!)
72% [ 42 ]
Total Votes : 58  

[Ktns]

I agree the prices are totally in different ballparks regarding breedings and customs. I would like to see something worked out in both ways.

1) Customs are not only a chance in hell to win almost non existent slots, but then you have to pay into the millions for most things.

2) Breedings are *really* cheap for crazy edited pets that have at least 2 offspring with 3 stages. I remember when baskets and kids had edits, but I noticed that's really stopped in the past couple years. I wouldnt blame artists for not wanting to put that kind of effort in for 'chump change'.

On the other hand, I think the prices listed here are a little too much considering the offspring arent required to pass down a certain level of edits (that Im aware of).

Overall, I would like to see it evened out across the board tho if thats at all possible? o:

EDIT: Tho if we DO pay more for breedings I would like to see more breedings done on time and less of them dropped, transferred, or made to wait *months* to complete. It's not constant, but again... I think sometimes its hard to be motivated when you do a hell of a lot of work for almost nothing.  

[Revolutionary Roniel]

Really not fond of this idea. If the shop wants to control the amount of edited ponies, there are a lot of other ways... like offering predominantly unedited breedings, or putting out predominantly unedited ponies for events.

Custom prices are already high enough that I've seen people questing for literally years and never meet their goal. Breedings in this shop are wonderful, because they're something that you don't need a ton of gold for. Raising the prices on breedings to be similar to customs would just make the shop more inaccessible to newbies or more casual b/c denizens, which is already a problem that I've seen frequently brought up.

If a colorist doesn't feel like doing edited breedings or doesn't feel like they're earning enough gold for it to be worth their time, I'm not aware of any system that forces them to take them on (If edited breedings are part of a monthly quota, sorry, and I take this statement back!).

If a breeding is going to cost the same (or more sometimes, with that 500k price...) than a custom, that really changes the dynamic of this shop and makes it super prohibitive to people who don't have the ability to earn a ton of gold on gaia for one reason or another. If cutting down on edits is the end goal, that is something that could be accomplished much easier by just... someone on the chain of command saying that there will be less edited ponies made.  

[stella cinere]

When colorist chooses to do or not do edited couples its usually for two reasons.

1. Time. Its more time for some colorist to do 3 edited kids versus unedited or minor edited kids. If a colorist is busy with classes or etc. they may want to take on lower levels of edits to keep the wait or process of working down. I am much much slower doing a large amount of edits even if they are small ones a lot of edits amount to time.

2. Comfort level in doing edits. There are some edits not all colorist feel comfortable doing. IE some colorist don't feel comfortable doing gore or etc.

Not typical if it is worth their time of gold.  

[Ktns]

hanging gallow

When colorist chooses to do or not do edited couples its usually for two reasons.

1. Time. Its more time for some colorist to do 3 edited kids versus unedited or minor edited kids. If a colorist is busy with classes or etc. they may want to take on lower levels of edits to keep the wait or process of working down. I am much much slower doing a large amount of edits even if they are small ones a lot of edits amount to time.

2. Comfort level in doing edits. There are some edits not all colorist feel comfortable doing. IE some colorist don't feel comfortable doing gore or etc.

Not typical if it is worth their time of gold.

Also very valid of course. My response previous was mostly in response to the 'worth' undertone. But yes, time and comfort is first.  

[PANK x l3mons]

Roniel Targaryen

Really not fond of this idea. If the shop wants to control the amount of edited ponies, there are a lot of other ways... like offering predominantly unedited breedings, or putting out predominantly unedited ponies for events.

I disagree. This is a true statement, but will cause virtually EVERYONE to complain that there are a lack of breeding slots for anything BUT unedits.

Roniel Targaryen

Custom prices are already high enough that I've seen people questing for literally years and never meet their goal. Breedings in this shop are wonderful, because they're something that you don't need a ton of gold for. Raising the prices on breedings to be similar to customs would just make the shop more inaccessible to newbies or more casual b/c denizens, which is already a problem that I've seen frequently brought up.

This is NOT raising the prices to be even near similar to customs. This is basically paying for some of the edits in a breeding. Also, show me the people who DON'T have the funds for their soq. Rather, I think that the real reason a lot of people wait so long to get their quests is because they juggle them, and because of the fact that customs are less frequent than breedings. Look at most people's sigs, they have the gold but lack a slot.

Roniel Targaryen

If a colorist doesn't feel like doing edited breedings or doesn't feel like they're earning enough gold for it to be worth their time, I'm not aware of any system that forces them to take them on (If edited breedings are part of a monthly quota, sorry, and I take this statement back!).

I also do not know about this. This is a valid con that I will throw up in the OP.

Roniel Targaryen

If a breeding is going to cost the same (or more sometimes, with that 500k price...) than a custom, that really changes the dynamic of this shop and makes it super prohibitive to people who don't have the ability to earn a ton of gold on gaia for one reason or another. If cutting down on edits is the end goal, that is something that could be accomplished much easier by just... someone on the chain of command saying that there will be less edited ponies made.

It won't ever cost more than a custom. Look at the tiers. Unedited breedings will cost 100k. The LEAST you will ever pay for a single unedited regular is 350k. For the extreme, the LEAST you will ever pay for an extremely edited regular is 1.35mil. That's for ONE stage on both of those price quotes. A breeding between, for example, an extreme edited pair of angeni would cost 1mil when the parents COMBINED would cost 11million for ONE STAGE.

I really, really don't think it will change the dynamic of the shop. It IS NOT hard to make gold on Gaia. Anyone who posts a few times a day a few times a week will earn enough by the time they win a breeding slot anyway that they will likely have it covered. MOST breedings, I believe, are between unedit-moderate parents anyway so the price wouldn't be too outrageous.

What I think IS outrageous is that colorists do way more work for practically nothing when breedings come around than when customs do.  

[tefla]

@ Lemon:

Not to sound rude (and I know I am failing) - but first of all ... what is up with the "US?" in your little PM anonymous bit ... you sound like you are a group of people utilizing one account. Also why the need to create a new account just to blast your opinions on how you think the shop should be run?

Soquili as a shop in general has a fairly good system. It needs no major overhaul in my eyes. A lot of people can't go dumping RL cash into Gaia to obtain gold. Can you honestly expect that everyone on Gaia has a lot of gold to bandy around on breedings that would be entirely overpriced?

Of course there are the customers in the shop who might have a lot of gold to play with but they themselves might have their own shops that they gain revenue (gold) from that they can turn around and use somewhere else. Not everyone is like this though.

As for your solutions to possible problems ... that would never work. It would be hardly fair to the person paying for the entire breeding just to have first pick of baskets. Essentially they'd be covering the entire thing and the other owner of the second parent would be getting something for free. How does your logic work in that scenario? One person gets something for free and the other person pays for everything. Nuh-uh. That would never go over well with anyone.

Trust me when I say that this suggestion of yours will eventually fail. Soquili has a good system. It doesn't need changing IMHO.  

[PANK x l3mons]

the_scowling_cat

While the suggestion is valid... I'm not entirely sure how 'Gaia gold is easier than ever to get'. I've been on this site a very long time and I still have the same issues with acquiring large amounts of gold now, as I did seven years ago. I've been sitting on barely 100k for over half a year now. That's barely pocket change in this forum. So unless you're suggesting we all need to pay Gaia rl money so we can find our wallets for those prices, I'm not sure how 'the customer base has the gold.'

There are so many more ways to make gold now than there were 7 years ago. I too am someone who has been on the site for years and years, and I remember when I thought 400g was a fortune. I am also someone who buys GC to get more gold, however I am in no way endorsing this. There are a myriad of ways to earn gold. Booty Grab, posting, polls, spending a few days on the exchange, participating in website games, etc.

the_scowling_cat

Customs are already over-priced as it is (imo, for the base prices without edits); there's no need to make it even harder for someone who doesn't have that kind of gold, or a way to get that kind of gold, to get a Soq.

You need a soq to enter breedings, which is what my suggestion is about. There are freebies and contests all over the place that usually don't involve gold. Case in point, Niss's 'Triple Threat' basket contest that is currently going on.

the_scowling_cat

I agree with Roniel; the colorists can choose whether they want to do unedited or editted.

I'm not talking about unedited or edited, that is a possible positive outcome not a definite one or really what my main point is at all.  

[tefla]

PANK x l3mons

There are so many more ways to make gold now than there were 7 years ago. I too am someone who has been on the site for years and years, and I remember when I thought 400g was a fortune. I am also someone who buys GC to get more gold, however I am in no way endorsing this. There are a myriad of ways to earn gold. Booty Grab, posting, polls, spending a few days on the exchange, participating in website games, etc.

And what of those people who have slow computers or little time to be on Gaia constantly to play around in said portions of the site ... what then?  

[PANK x l3mons]

-Valid points, don't feel the need to respond to anything above this-

Ktns

On the other hand, I think the prices listed here are a little too much considering the offspring arent required to pass down a certain level of edits (that Im aware of).

They're not required to, no. But you would very rarely see a Heavily edited parent breed, even with an unedit, and see a child come out with anything lower than moderate edits. We shouldn't have to worry about one child getting more edits than another child, since certain staff members are supposed to watch out for that before the basket even grows.

Ktns

EDIT: Tho if we DO pay more for breedings I would like to see more breedings done on time and less of them dropped, transferred, or made to wait *months* to complete. It's not constant, but again... I think sometimes its hard to be motivated when you do a hell of a lot of work for almost nothing.

I haven't seen a breeding get dropped... ever. If you want to pm me an example of one, I'd be happy to acknowledged that this happens. I'm sure that in that situation, anyways, your gold would be refunded to you. The waiting game in Soquili is just a every-slot risk. Colorists have lives and sometimes your Soquili have to wait a little longer than you'd like to be finished. It's a good thing that you're allowed to Roleplay and plot wips. And colorists aren't supposed to accept their trades until the work is done. So it's not like they're off throwing your gold around while you sit there waiting for your Soquili to arrive.  

[PANK x l3mons]

tefla

@ Lemon:

Not to sound rude (and I know I am failing) - but first of all ... what is up with the "US?" in your little PM anonymous bit ... you sound like you are a group of people utilizing one account. Also why the need to create a new account just to blast your opinions on how you think the shop should be run?

Why is there a new feedback mule? Because of reasons exactly like this. Why do you even care who we, I, they, or us is? I feel there is a problem in soq and I want to get my suggestion heard by a range of people instead of just PMing the mule, but also feel that to open this topic to debate in my, our, their, regular account would incur a bad reputation. NOT because I don't believe in my ideas or my ability to articulate them rationally and politely but because Soq Feedback threads have a history of turning on their creators and getting totally off topic.

tefla

Soquili as a shop in general has a fairly good system. It needs no major overhaul in my eyes. A lot of people can't go dumping RL cash into Gaia to obtain gold. Can you honestly expect that everyone on Gaia has a lot of gold to bandy around on breedings that would be entirely overpriced?

Of course there are the customers in the shop who might have a lot of gold to play with but they themselves might have their own shops that they gain revenue (gold) from that they can turn around and use somewhere else. Not everyone is like this though.

I absolutely DO NOT endorse the spending of RL money on Gaia in any way, shape, or form. ...Hah, looking at my OP I do notice it comes across as that and I'm sorry but I didn't intend to imply that people should be buying GC. Sorry! I personally DO spend RL money on Gaia, but it's a hobby I justify by telling myself I don't smoke, drink to excess, or do drugs.

A lot of customers have a lot of gold. It's a fact. Whether because they are oldbies who have old items that have inflated or because they booty grab their booties off, come paid raffle time a surprising amount of people have a surprising amount of gold.

tefla

As for your solutions to possible problems ... that would never work. It would be hardly fair to the person paying for the entire breeding just to have first pick of baskets. Essentially they'd be covering the entire thing and the other owner of the second parent would be getting something for free. How does your logic work in that scenario? One person gets something for free and the other person pays for everything. Nuh-uh. That would never go over well with anyone.

Trust me when I say that this suggestion of yours will eventually fail. Soquili has a good system. It doesn't need changing IMHO.

I think we might have to agree to disagree. I think that the price of breedings needs to be fixed, else I would not have made this thread.

I think it could work just fine, and I'm not suggesting that one person pays the WHOLE breeding amount. I should probably go make sure it doesn't come across that way and I will amend it if it does. As is, I know a lot of people that don't even bother to let their partners pay their half of the breeding because 6k is a joke. You can make 6k on a bad day of Booty Grab.
And fine then, since a lot of people put a lot of value in stats and getting a 3rd basket then perhaps the one who pays a bunch more can dictate where a 3rd basket goes. It's not my problem to dictate to people whatever agreement they come to with choices, 1st pick/2nd pick, or whathaveyou. I am putting out SUGGESTIONS for possible problems I see arising from this before other people can throw them at me.  

[Ktns]

PANK x l3mons

-Valid points, don't feel the need to respond to anything above this-

Ktns

On the other hand, I think the prices listed here are a little too much considering the offspring arent required to pass down a certain level of edits (that Im aware of).

They're not required to, no. But you would very rarely see a Heavily edited parent breed, even with an unedit, and see a child come out with anything lower than moderate edits. We shouldn't have to worry about one child getting more edits than another child, since certain staff members are supposed to watch out for that before the basket even grows.

Ktns

EDIT: Tho if we DO pay more for breedings I would like to see more breedings done on time and less of them dropped, transferred, or made to wait *months* to complete. It's not constant, but again... I think sometimes its hard to be motivated when you do a hell of a lot of work for almost nothing.

I haven't seen a breeding get dropped... ever. If you want to pm me an example of one, I'd be happy to acknowledged that this happens. I'm sure that in that situation, anyways, your gold would be refunded to you. The waiting game in Soquili is just a every-slot risk. Colorists have lives and sometimes your Soquili have to wait a little longer than you'd like to be finished. It's a good thing that you're allowed to Roleplay and plot wips. And colorists aren't supposed to accept their trades until the work is done. So it's not like they're off throwing your gold around while you sit there waiting for your Soquili to arrive.

I dont need to PM examples or your approval/acknowledgement that it happens, but Ill give you one that Ive had personally. My second Xochi/Req breeding was picked up by an artist and never completed for almost a year. This artist was still around and very active on Gaia and doing other things. Agneza picked it up and finished it. This isnt the only time its happened in the shop.