[S] Breeding Prices [New poll]

[PANK x l3mons]

Imagined or not it's still something that I see. Even should the decision be a concrete 'no' handed down from Soquili herself and based on a consensus from all members of staff, it would still be a problem in my eyes. I'd not be able to bring it up again but that wouldn't change my opinion on the matter. On your side you can't see why I could possibly be supporting this but on my side I don't see how people can possibly be spending so much time, effort, and vocabulary on (what is according to quite a few of the posters in here) such a seemingly pointless suggestion, and I see nothing wrong with voicing my opinion that breedings should cost more. If it is nothing that will ever happen then why are you so vehement (and in some cases hostile) in your arguing with me?

I appreciate the staff answers, however, and can see this likely going nowhere. So at that, I am going to go to bed because my eyes are crossing. Also, I liked Sweeny's pun, intentional or not.  

[Sweenys_Revenge]

I'm hostile because I don't like what I don't understand. And I don't understand you guys. I don't buy that you're one. I can't put my finger on it, I just don't. And I don't buy that none of you are part of the staff. Maybe not colorists, but ONE of you at least is a staff member.

Which makes me, at least, feel cornered. I would not be NEARLY as hostile if you were up front.

My last words.

1: Take off the mask. It would end a lot of the hostility towards all of you.
2: Let this die. None of you are starting any revolution because you don't have the people behind you.  

[Zee Oddwyn]

Sweeny, I think it might be a good idea to take a step back from the thread if it's aggravating you so much.

As to my own opinion, I hadn't given much thought to the price of a breeding in Soquili, but now having had my attention drawn to it, I think that Pank is not without her point. Having been a colorist (in another shop, not Soquili) I understand the amount of work that goes into a breeding, even if breedings do not have to be tailor-made to a customer's wishes. It's still a rather large amount of work, especially when each individual Soq is comprised of three stages, and there's a time commitment over the coming weeks, after the work is done on coloring them, to actually grow, and edit the certs the pets are on.

Given the amount of work, I can see how you could compare the price of a breeding to the price for a custom, and feel that the difference should be lessened by increasing the price of breeding.

Having given some thought to the idea, I would be willing to pay 50k for a breeding of an edited couple, and 25k for unedited. That is merely what I am willing to pay. I don't necessarily think that Soquili needs to change the price of the breedings, as the low price serves as an incentive to try for the breedings, creating more interest in the shop. Much like a store in the real world offering a constant 50% off for a service. Certainly, they could be charging more, but the lower price generates sales, so the trade-off is worth it.

However, I shall be sure to tip the breeders extra when I get a breeding from now on. wink  

[Yumitoko II]

I just honestly think if Mindsend has spoke (yes, one of the main figure heads of soquili) then it has pretty much been answered, not only as her own opinion but part in truth of what other staff may think.
Also Mobbu and Slimy have also voiced their opinions.

If this Lemons personally wants to pay the 12k with an additional 38 - 488k tip on top who are we to stop them? biggrin
I mean seriously, they can do whatever they want or be how ever generous they want if that's what they wish to do as long as they stick to the rules. :3

I think this thread just needs to be closed now because it's now just like that last person still clapping when everyone else has stopped…
A bit embarrassing, you know? sweatdrop  

[Phail Ninja]

Okay people, this is getting ridiculous.

CAN EVERYONE PLEASE JUST CALM DOWN, AND STOP TAKING EVERYTHING SO PERSONALLY? JUST, PLEASE?

Stop bashing on this person to reveal who they are. Everyone has the right to anonymity. Think about it, you're all hating on them now. If said person were to reveal who they are now, you're going to make that user feel terrible later. You'll hold the grudge against them, regardless, and that's horribly unfair on them. So please, guys, leave it.

And secondly, everyone stop making unfound accusation against each other and use a little bit of logic Dxxx Stop saying this person is a greedy staff member trying to get extra cash. If they are staff, they only have to mention it at a staff meeting, surely? And what does it matter if they are staff or not? Frankly, there is no evidence they are staff, so stop saying they are. You're all being horrible about this.

Some people need to back off, and I'm sure you all know who you are. The horse has been beaten round the bush more than once, so to speak. Everyone calm down. And drop it.

The level of aggravation in this thread is one of the things that makes me so ashamed about the Soq community sometimes, it really does. We're all people, we get enough s**t thrown at us in real life without people hating on us in here. I know gaia is my way of escaping from the real world, I'm sure this is the case for others too. There is no need to turn against everyone here.

I'm sorry for snapping, it's just this discussion is making me feel sick to the bone.

For shame, people, for shame.

I include myself in the shameful category for arguing before too, so don't start ranting at me and accusing me of being hypocritical or anything >_<

Anyway. Sorry for snapping again. And for my rant. My deepest apologies Dx

 

[Ktns]

Im thinking for the peace of the shop and its customers that this thread needs to be locked. I think the polls and other information posted garner enough information on the subject, the rest of what is in this thread is just.... yeah.  

[Mobster Goose]

As to agree with a few other people getting annoyed,

If you want to continue this thread then do it without talking about the PANK x l3mons mule. I'm not going to stop anyone from talking (yet anyway) but-

If people keep going on about how the person is hidden and should reveal themselves I will LOCK if not NUKE THIS THREAD.

Seriously. It will be deleted, as will all your unnecessary comments be, and I will PERSONALLY start it over again as if this never happened.

If STAFF dont care who is on the mule none of you should really care either. If STAFF are not bothered by the user using a mule none of you should either.



Summary: Now while mindsends summary votes "heck no and why even?" my summary is the complete opposite. I'm not voting yes or no on price raising but if someone thought this to be a problem I'm not going to dismiss them from mentioning it. I'm going to allow them to toss out an idea.



Unlike most it seems, I do see/understand why lemons thinks what she does and if she wants to voice it to the world all the more power to her.

A lot of you guys (for those lurkers) keep your worries or thoughts private. Why? Because people attack and you get judged. I dont blame you I'm exactly that way irl. You are allowed to disagree but no one should instantly say NO to any opinion (for those who are attacking or instantly dismissing without trying). It's not easy for people to bring something up after seeing people get attacked (hint hint). Lets not instantly burn the shy people from talking kthnx.


EDIT: <3 you guys who are taking this seriously and are actually trying to comment about the topic and not who lemons is.  

[Sabin Duvert]

Just a few more thoughts:

Breedings being less costly than customs across the B&C: It is "tradition". The first B&C shop did it, and from then, most shops have deviated little from the basic set up model. There have been variances like number of babies, the number being random or pre-determined or extra being able to be purchased, but since like... pards and puris, breedings were significantly cheaper considering the work of the colorists vs the price. I don't know why. Just because something is traditional doesn't mean it's the be all and end all or the best way to do things. And like other people said, if one shop changes, it doesn't mean that others have to. I don't think it's making a claim that theirs is "better" or colorists put in "more work" than other shops. But you do get a kickback of people who feel like the rug is pulled out from under them when they expect one thing, have dealt with one thing for a long time, and then are asked to change that ends up costing them more. AKA: drama and complaints.

Do I think that the suggestion here is reasonable? Honestly, yeah. The exact pricing is up for discussion - some people say they wouldn't pay more than current prices, or a few k more than that. Others would be willing to pay a good deal of gold for a breeding slot if they won without complaint, if they knew that the colorists would feel more compensated for their time.

Might this help stem some of the burn-out that many soquili colorists seem to be hit by? I don't know. I doubt it, but I can't speak to everyone's motivation.


And yeah, even IF prices were raised, I say No to WIPs. It defeats the point. Even bribe breedings don't get WIPs of the adults.


Regardless, going by purely supply and demand, there is a hell of a lot more demand in soquili than supply. A HELL of a lot. if this were a real-world market, and Soquili were a company, soquili would be a lot more expensive. Considering each one is personally produced, that real time is put into each pet. That you have a relatively small number of staff compared to the clients, and a virtually limitless demand.

When I was working on staff, I would put at least as much time into working on a breeding as I did most RL commissions. Even an unedited breeding, with all the stages and 2 baskets - from saving the files and rolling for the traits of the offspring - took at least a couple hours. Edited breedings could take many hours.

But yeah, 12k for a breeding, 6k for a flatsale was cheap, even when Soquili started - and again, pretty much just a formality now.

So the fact of the matter is that doing soquili is - at the end of the day- not generally a profitible thing in terms of gold vs time. Even doing customs every 3 months or so (which is only avialable to senior colorists) considering the quota imposed and the fact that a lot of colorists do more than just the bear minimum, when you average everything out. This isn't a real economy - and nearly everyone involved is doing this because they love the shop, the community, or sometimes want an avenue to work on coloring techniques and enjoy making people happy with the products. So while I agree that colorists aren't being compensated gold-wise for the time investment, I don't think that gold is why most of them are doing it to begin with. And most of the colorists who DID apply when they saw the high auction prices and wanted gold didn't stick around (and I don't think there were ever many of them).


And I do have to say, in Lemon's defense of anonymity - Yeah, saying things in the voice of the minority can very much hurt you. People remember crap, even if it's been years. Even if you wanted nothing more than to try to help or add to the shop that you enjoy, it can be held against you and affects people's thoughts on you. I've seen it happen far too many times, and how it's had actual affects in the community :/

So while I'm curious, I certainly understand where she's coming from.

And finally, I think that the reason there's been so much stirring in the feedback forum is that it's a way for people to interact with the shop while the colorists have been mostly busy behind the scenes. XD.  

[ArashiX]

Hmm. This is an interesting topic (and by this page, I'm glad I haven't read the other pages, so I'm just going to offer my opinion).

I haven't won a lot of breedings, but I'm one of the many on Gaia that doesn't have a "reliable" gold income. However I do believe in compensating the colourist with tips on customs and breedings. Granted, my tips may not be astronomical, but I do try, and isn't that the point?

To make the colourists feel like their time and effort is worthwhile.

I could agree to a price increase for breedings, and I've got no problem with paying tips as I just said. Tips for breedings can go double if not more, in my eyes. Would I mind paying more if it was in the 25-50k range?

Not necessarily, even knowing I don't have a gold fountain on my account.

However, I still have in mind the people with even less means of grabbing gold than me.

As I said, I'd be okay with paying a flat fee of 25-50k for a breeding, but at the same time, I'd be okay with it staying at 12k and I don't believe it 'needs' to be changed, as I'm more inclined to tip more from that price.

 

[Kirowyn Love]

I think it would make more sense to have the breeding prices go based on edit categories

Like... Unedited would be 6K per parent.
Minor 10K per parent
Moderate 15K per parent
Heavy 20K per parent
Extreme 25K per parent

For mutants, it might be good to have it depend on how heavily mutated it is.

If you have a mix, take the price for each parent. Like, a heavy and unedited would be 20K+6K.

These are kind of just suggested prices. I know that different colorists have different opinions on what edit category your pony falls into. Unsure what edit category it is for that colorist? Just ask in your form and they can edit it in.  

[CheshireKttty]

While I have read everything here, I have avoided posting because of the hostile environment that was created. Now that things have calmed down, I will certainly put in my opinion.

I color for another shop and have just come to realize how much work breedings really are. O_O They are time consuming and while creating one stage can be fun, you then have to duplicate that pet for several stages which can be less than fun. However, while I don't make much from breedings, I really only color because I enjoy it. I usually make 200-500k a day elsewhere on gaia (because I have no life >.>) So for me personally it's that I love coloring and making people happy. Not the gold. If I wanted gold I'd just spend the time doing other things.

However, I know that other colorists don't have the same amount of time that I do to put into gold earning. While a high price change would be a bit of an extreme jump (especially for those who can't afford it) a small one would certainly be reasonable. While I realize it might not be possible to do here, the shop I work for charges 10k per baby and not just per parent. And I think that's certainly reasonable.

As far as a tiered system I'm just going to say NO. As people have mentioned before, you start getting elitism. Oh your pony isn't edited like mine? Sorry I'll have to pass. There's already a lot of that going on now, to charge for level of edits will only further add to that. I think the easiest and fairest way is to just charge a flat rate. Besides, just because the parents are massively edited doesn't mean that the babies will necessarily be just as edited. A tiered system would get messy, make things harder to understand, and just be too dang complicated.

EDIT: I will also be sure to try and tip from now on either way. I'd tried to tip some colorists in the past but they didn't accept tips and so honestly I had stopped trying. But if soquili colorists accept them, I will certainly give them biggrin

In short:
I think a small price jump is fair.
Maybe charge per basket (though might not be possible)
One flat price (no tiered system)
Tipping is good biggrin  

[Yumitoko II]

CheshireKttty

While I have read everything here, I have avoided posting because of the hostile environment that was created. Now that things have calmed down, I will certainly put in my opinion.


In short:
I think a small price jump is fair.
Maybe charge per basket (though might not be possible)
One flat price (no tiered system)
Tipping is good biggrin

The only argument I have against charging per basket is that if there is a 3rd this takes away from the initial perk of a 3rd because it is meant to be a perk for those who have RP'd their soquili to a certain extent and that would just take away from it.

As the prices stand it's basically like paying for one flatsale pet each (6k from each owner). :3

But I agree with all your other points. biggrin  

[CheshireKttty]

True I hadn't really thought of it like that ^.^  

[Yumitoko II]

CheshireKttty

True I hadn't really thought of it like that ^.^

Ah it's just opinions and batting ideas around really so it's all good. :3  

[tefla]

I'm just going to say that I am still against any sort of tiered system.

:: shrugs ::